Man, a big beef I have with this game are two things...

Makoeyes987

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What other normal people? The only time you see that is in Before Crisis, considering you have SOLDIER working side by side with Turks, fighting against non-augmented AVALANCHE fighters, and then later on, the augmented Ravens squad appears as well.

In Crisis Core, you only have SOLDIER, Genesis Copies, and monsters...that's it. Oh, and you see some Shinra Grunts get pwned as well.

The Shinra Building massacre shows you just how weak and inept the grunts and 3rd Classes are, if nothing else. :monster:
 

Cat Rage Room

Great Old One
AKA
Mog
What other normal people? The only time you see that is in Before Crisis, considering you have SOLDIER working side by side with Turks, fighting against non-augmented AVALANCHE fighters, and then later on, the augmented Ravens squad appears as well.

In Crisis Core, you only have SOLDIER, Genesis Copies, and monsters...that's it. Oh, and you see some Shinra Grunts get pwned as well.

The Shinra Building massacre shows you just how weak and inept the grunts and 3rd Classes are, if nothing else.

I mean, anyone. Old AVALANCHE, New AVALANCHE, the Turks, the Wusheng, Deepground, the Shinra Army, a jujube vendor, hell, anyone we've ever seen in the FF7 Compilation. How strong is SOLDIER, by rank, compared to what we've seen?
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
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Smooth Criminal
Oh yeah..the Wusheng are in CC.

There you go. There's a comparison right there.
 

Cat Rage Room

Great Old One
AKA
Mog
Yeah, but you only see them vs. Zack, who is sort of an anomaly because he's freakishly strong and able. I mean the entirely of SOLDIER in general, all of the classes. And still, there's the rest of the examples I mentioned.
 

Cat Rage Room

Great Old One
AKA
Mog
Hey, I'm not looking for a concrete answer where there is none. :awesome:

But it's cool/safe to speculate based off what we have seen. With the exception of the jujube vendor, we have seen everyone I named in action to have a little brainstorming to how SOLDIERS compare.
 
Thoughts.... it is annoying that so little is seen of the Wutai War, since it is the ONLY war fought, but appears to have been fought entirely against a handful of useless Ninjas, some Chinese new year dragon things, and a couple of Donkey Kong wannabes. Versus Zack. I mean, no wonder Wutai lost! A few pitched battle missions would have made a nice change, though they mght have introduced a jarring note of veresmiltude into this fantasy game.

Zack, and all the SOLDIERS, do come across as lone wolf operatives who get sent in to do special missions, rather than fighting in 'real' battles. I suppose the question is, was it SE's choice and intention to make the SOLDIERs like this, or were they constrained by programming requirements and the limitations of the battle system they used? I dunno.

I also got the impression that the SOLDIER program as a whole was a bit of a failure and in disarray. How could it be otherwise, with Lazard in charge? Can anyone seriously imagine Angeal or Sephiroth, let alone Genesis, respecting and taking orders from this guy, especially since it's an open secret he got his job through nepotism? And of course Lazard has his own agenda. For me, SOLDIER sometimes comes across as an exercise in PR as much as anything else. Genesis et al are worshipped by impressionable souls on the outside, eg kids, fangirls, young Zack, but once you're inside you realise the 49th floor is a mess. Zack becomes totally disillusioned, and not just because he has to kill his own mentor.

So that's the story, as it seems to me. If it were Band of Brothers it would be a different story. Maybe what is needed now is a Halo-style version of the Wutai War?
 

Cat Rage Room

Great Old One
AKA
Mog
Thoughts.... it is annoying that so little is seen of the Wutai War, since it is the ONLY war fought, but appears to have been fought entirely against a handful of useless Ninjas, some Chinese new year dragon things, and a couple of Donkey Kong wannabes. Versus Zack. I mean, no wonder Wutai lost!

Wha?

Granted, it would have helped Wutai's image to the players if we would have seen some tanks and artillery and maybe a navy (which I'm positive they had), but from what we have seen, those armor clad soldiers with those giant spear guns and terrifying giant fucking monsters, they looked pretty formidable!

You realize without SOLDIER Shinra very probably could have lost!
 
I wasn't being entirely serious. My point, such as it was, is that there weren't that many of them in the game.
In a pitched battle, Lord of the Rings style, they would indeed have seemed formidable.
 

Channy

Bad Habit
AKA
Ruby Rose, Lucy
>.> I think there could have been more Wutai War coverage.... Perhaps starting the game a little earlier with the start of the War and how long it's been going on instead of getting at it right at the end. It doesn't shed any more light than previous VII titles did about the War.
 

Makoeyes987

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What sources are you looking at? Because Essai and Sebastian are seen wearing the uniform of a SOLDIER 1st Class in all their artwork.
 

ForceStealer

Double Growth
I wasn't being entirely serious. My point, such as it was, is that there weren't that many of them in the game.
In a pitched battle, Lord of the Rings style, they would indeed have seemed formidable.

I'm not sure Gaia deals in LotR-style battles anymore. Those kind of battles, if our own history is any indication, go by the wayside with the invention of reliable firearms.

But I would imagine Wutai would have more traditional artillery (like ours) rather than Shinra's autonomous robots? But I'm not sure, perhaps they were just an army of ninjas and assassins. Though, yes, they definitely must have had a navy. It's the only logical reason I can think of for the cannon on Junon to have been built; there's no way it could hit Wutai.

Then again, the cannon can supposedly hit Midgar, so perhaps its more versatile than we think.
 

Cat Rage Room

Great Old One
AKA
Mog
I'm not sure Gaia deals in LotR-style battles anymore. Those kind of battles, if our own history is any indication, go by the wayside with the invention of reliable firearms.

I imagine the Wutai War would have had more of WWII like battles. Large scale, as well.

But I would imagine Wutai would have more traditional artillery (like ours) rather than Shinra's autonomous robots?

I figure so as well. I also imagine the Wusheng employed those monsters we see as well, but not as numerous as their own, human army, I think.

But I'm not sure, perhaps they were just an army of ninjas and assassins

The thought of this makes me want to vomit.
 
If there were pitched battles, be it WWII or LOTR style, then it might be reasonable to see SOLDIER operating in large numbers. If they were an army of ninjas and assassins, ie a guerlla army, then it would make more sense to deploy SOLDIERs in ones and twos. Thought you don't like the idea of guerilla warfare, MOG, that does seem to be what they are fighting in the DMWs, and history shows that when a force is outnumbered and outgunned, guerilla warfare is their best option. It isn't firearms but remote control warfare that has begun to do away with the big set piece battles of old, but it's true that Gaia has moved on from Napoleonic style warfare, especially with its mecha (are they remote controlled or do they have some kind of primitive AI?). Which makes it likelier that the Wutai war was very much a guerilla war. IMHO.

I think I would care more about Wutai if I saw more of it. Yuffie isn't exactly my favourite character.

Re Essai and Sebastian, the sources I refer to are DA's Shotgun Romance translations and SandGs summaries. I haven't seen the artwork so can't comment.

Is the Junon cannon ever fired in anger by Shinra? Or is it just a symbolic middle finger?
 
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Cat Rage Room

Great Old One
AKA
Mog
If there were pitched battles, be it WWII or LOTR style, then it might be reasonable to see SOLDIER operating in large numbers. If they were an army of ninjas and assassins, ie a guerlla army, then it would make more sense to deploy SOLDIERs in ones and twos. Thought you don't like the idea of guerilla warfare, MOG, that does seem to be what they are fighting in the DMWs, and history shows that when a force is outnumbered and outgunned, guerilla warfare is their best option. It isn't firearms but remote control warfare that has begun to do away with the big set piece battles of old, but it's true that Gaia has moved on from Napoleonic style warfare, especially with its mecha (are they remote controlled or do they have some kind of primitive AI?). Which makes it likelier that the Wutai war was very much a guerilla war. IMHO.

No doubt at least some of it was a guerilla war. However, whether it was or wasnt doesn't really have much to do how SOLDIER is deployed. Don't forget that SOLDIER isn't the backbone of the Army, the actual...Army is. SOLDIER can afford to be deployed in small numbers (I think one or two is too small, maybe less than ten) because of their strength and skill, similar to real world special forces like the Navy SEALS.

If there were pitched battles, that wouldn't make a difference to SOLDIER being deployed in large or small numbers. I just think that they could have at least have 5-6 man squads displayed in the game.

I never really got the impression that Wutai was that much outnumbered and outgunned. If Square Enix used the Japanese-American dynamic during WWII as any inspiration for the Wutai War (and it seems like they did), it would be quite the opposite, with waves and waves of Wutai soldiers holding every piece of land and small island to the death with surrender not being an option, which frankly, would demoralize and scare the shit out of the Shinra Army soldiers, much like it did the Americans.

However, the downside to this type of warfare, is if you lose, you fucking lost, big time, economically, militarily, and in every other way, just like what happened to Japan (and Wutai as well). Yes, Shinra did win in the end, but even with Shinra's *gasp* ROBOTS, it didn't really seem mismatched. I can easily imagine Wutai fighting the shit out of Shinra with large scale battles all over their main island, the smaller surrounding ones, and the Western Continent and the seas around it.

The whole 'ninja/assassin' thing used to explain away their entire combat presence to me, sounds corny, and while yeah, of course they had these, I figure it would be more of a special forces thing, like their version of SOLDIER or the Turks.
 
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Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
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Smooth Criminal
Re Essai and Sebastian, the sources I refer to are DA's Shotgun Romance translations and SandGs summaries. I haven't seen the artwork so can't comment.

You mean Gunshot Romance...?

And I have no idea what you're talking about. S & G's summaries and Gunshot Romance's translations never says their rank. But their outfit makes it clear they're 1st Class. Only 1st Class SOLDIERs wear the indicative black uniform.

soldieryishay.jpg
 
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Essai and Sebastian

From SandG's BC summaries on this site:

7. The Darkness Obscuring the Light

Icicle Inn (14/01/02)

Two Second Class SOLDIERs, Yishay and Sebastian, arrive back at their base settlement at Icicle Inn after a long day of hunting monsters in the snow fields....
 

TheMadHatter

Banned
AKA
Not Sure - guess the movie.
I've never played Crisis Core. The only FF game for PSP I own in II.
I can't decide if I should buy it for 30 bucks. I'm afraid it will be bad >.<
Its either Dissidia or Crisis Core and I can't pick! *sigh*
I'll have to wait till I can find a job I guess.

But should I be worried about buying this game? How many people were disappointed by or liked it?
 

TheMadHatter

Banned
AKA
Not Sure - guess the movie.
I think it's worth playing. It's not perfect, but it's a solid experience!

edit: get a job


Ahaha, let's see you get a job as a home schooler >.< I have to pass like eight different tests and than get a working permit.

I'll defiantly try to get it after I get Dissidia ^^
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
From SandG's BC summaries on this site:

7. The Darkness Obscuring the Light

Icicle Inn (14/01/02)

Two Second Class SOLDIERs, Yishay and Sebastian, arrive back at their base settlement at Icicle Inn after a long day of hunting monsters in the snow fields....

Well that's wrong. :monster:

I don't know where he got they were 2nd Class, but the game script never says so, and their uniforms which are indicative of their rank definitely aren't red.
 

pESCAbAdA

Lv. 25 Adventurer
Don't 2nd classes wear purple uniforms? I know it was red in the original game but I'm pretty sure they retconned it in Crisis Core because they thought Zack wouldn't look good in red. As it stands now, I think 3rd class is blue, 2nd class is purple, and 1st class is black. And yes, Essai and Sebastian are definitely wearing black uniforms, or at least it looks that way to me.

On a side note, why was Zack's second class uniform a brighter purple than all the other 2nd classes? I never quite understood that...
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
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Smooth Criminal
Uh, no they didn't. It's been red in Crisis Core. You see SOLDIER 2nd Class, labeled as such in the game. Zack only wore a purple one because Nomura didn't think he'd look good in red and it was a through back to the original FFVII outfit Cloud wore. Zack was special.

Look at the artwork from the CC Ultimania.

SOLDIER_2nd_Class.JPG

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