Midgar City Advanced Discussion Thread

[NoenGaruth]

Alright seeing as people are interested in discussing Midgar, rather then posting it in my Midgar Model thread, we'll continue the discussion here.

So basicaly we're here to talk about Midgar itself, the inner workings of the city, it's construction, the fact that Sqaure likes to change it in every FF7 title aswell as it's dark secret of deepground buried far below.

To start off, lets establish the basics before going into the advanced stuff.

The main make up of Midgar consists of 8 massive plates supported by a central complex, their own support pillars each as well as various support scaffolding all over the place. The plates sit high above the slums, and each sector has an 'outer plate' extending from it, with the exception of sector 6 which is currently unfinished. The plate's each contain their own towns, while the outer plates seem to accomodate industrial buildings and anything you don't want near people's houses.

The center of the upper city houses the Shin-Ra Headquarters, consisting of the main 70 floor building, 2 flanking towers, a number of smaller towers, 2 cyclindrical vents and a mass of pipes, all of which rests upon the central complex.

And finaly we have 9 Mako Reactors, No.'s 1-8 form a circle around the city while Reactor 0 is located underneath in the decerpit ruins of Deepground.

Thats the basics out of the way, now about sizes.
In FF7 it's stated that the plate is about 50m high. Now we all know that is a load of bull since 50 meters isn't that high. I also disproved this in my Model where it was more like 500 meters. All other sized will be all over the place since the size of Midgar has changed in like every FF7 compilation title. In FF7 it was relatively small where in Advent children it was freaking massive, while the Crisis Core one was close to AC size but completely remodeled if compared with the one shown during Marlene's little speech.
So really the size of the city can only be speculated.

I think that's enough to start us off, I'll add more later when I think of it, in the meantime, if anyone has something they wanna discuss about the city please feel free.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I still wanna know how Deepground even exists. How can the ground support such a massive structure and also have something BENEATH it.

And apparently there be a town and shit there? How deep is Deepground?

Where does the air come from? There has to be some type of ventilation.

 

[NoenGaruth]

Well if it was far enough down and the 'geofront' was reinforced then it should be able to hold the weight. (Remember that DG was very far down, you take a number of elevators down including that massive one you fight Azul on....actually that place would have to be so far down it would reach the lifestream)

Now the town down there, well that's a poser, I had the thought of it being somewhere the Shinra would retreat to in an emergency, however the flaw in that logic is that all the buildings down there are dilapidated and the ground is all messed up. Now you'd think if the Shinra planned to live there in an emergency they'd take care of the place, and even when deepground started there, how does the place end up in the sorry state you see when Vincent goes down there...

Possible answer to this is that the ground shifted at some point either because of meteor or some major event and ruined the place.

But still, one thing that bothers me is the size of DG, it's massive with highways and everything. Even if it were an emergency shelter, isn't something like that way too big even for the President. And way to much work done for a 'what if' scenario.

And ventilation, I reckon X-SOLDIER hit the nail on the head in the other thread with that in which there's probably vents all over the central complex. It's also possible that the 2 giant cylinders on the right of the Shin-Ra building could be for DG too since they don't seem to serve any other purpose.

 

[ForceStealer]

I was never quite sure about how those outer plates were supported. You only see supports when you're in the slums of course, but you never seem to be under the actual outer plate. And I'm basing this off memory alone, but I don't remember the outer plate falling when the rest of Sector 7 did. It's very possible I'm wrong on that, but if I'm not, what's holding it up?

Also, why do they suck so bad with size consistency? Midgar's a big example, as is the Masamune which sometimes looks like a long katana and other times looks to be several meters long.
But anyway, I totally forgot the 50m comment, that's pretty funny since it ALWAYS looks a long long way away. (Though 50m would make Cloud surviving the fall to the slums a LITTLE easier to believe)

Was it that small in FF7 though? We saw so little of it. It is true that the sectors seemed awfully close to each other (though I've wondered why sectors were delineated in the slums at all). You could pass from Sector 5, through 6 to 7 in almost no time at all, and you had to have been a little ways out as you could still walk all they way in to Corneo's place which was against the center support.

I never really thought about the size, that's interesting, I've just always been kinda frustrated of how little of the city we've seen. Only the slums in Sectors 5, 6, 7 and on the plate we have ONLY seen Sector 8 (And the Sector 1 station). I wanna know what the other sector plates are like, do they each have a different feel? Are they like the separate districts of city or just a big homogeneous group of Shinra employees?

Crisis Core gave us a fairly neat look at 8 (Although it was a Sector we had already seen), I would've liked to see a fully accessible Midgar. But even if they did do that in CC we would be able to go in any houses or stores or anything, so I guess we never will see the rest of the city which is a shame, because its a pretty cool idea.

 

[Tetsujin]

I wanna know where the elevators for the DG troops and tanks and everything are. Those must be massive. Where do they lead to? o.o

And also, I've heard somewhere that the underground city was some lost city or something...but I can't remember where that came from.
But yeah, Deepground is kinda interesting, but it's also a stretch. The whole thing being right underneath Midgar? Jesus.

And yeah, the 50m thing. I always thought "What. That can't be possible."
50m aren't really all that high. Midgar's upper plate seems to be much higher than that.

Also, I'd like to point out once more that I would like to see Midgar in broad daylight for once.

 

[ForceStealer]

Apart from the physical stretch, I can't get over the money they expect us to believe Shinra had. How could they POSSIBLY be that rich? Look at the thousands of employees and so many simultaneous projects and experiments they undertook. And as we've seen, an overwhelming proportion of them were total blunders. How much did they charge for Mako anyway? And how much could they have possibly made on weapons before that? Its crazy.

 

[Dark and Divine]

[quote author=Tetsujin link=topic=590.msg22903#msg22903 date=1235555491]
And also, I've heard somewhere that the underground city was some lost city or something...but I can't remember where that came from.[/quote]

I think that it was stated in the Ultimania that the Slums were originally several towns, each one with it won name and such.

It's possible that Deepground's city was one of those towns, with the Cebtral Pillar being constructed around it.

 

[NoenGaruth]

[quote author=ForceStealer link=topic=590.msg22902#msg22902 date=1235555288]
I was never quite sure about how those outer plates were supported. You only see supports when you're in the slums of course, but you never seem to be under the actual outer plate. And I'm basing this off memory alone, but I don't remember the outer plate falling when the rest of Sector 7 did. It's very possible I'm wrong on that, but if I'm not, what's holding it up?
[/quote]

Ok from what i can see in AC, they had lots of scaffolding under the outer plates to support then. And I'm pretty sure the outer plate falls with sector 7, considering you can see it lying on the ground too in AC/DoC. Also I'm assuming all that scaffolding would just collapse under the pressure when the main pillar was blown.

[quote author=ForceStealer link=topic=590.msg22902#msg22902 date=1235555288]
I never really thought about the size, that's interesting, I've just always been kinda frustrated of how little of the city we've seen. Only the slums in Sectors 5, 6, 7 and on the plate we have ONLY seen Sector 8 (And the Sector 1 station). I wanna know what the other sector plates are like, do they each have a different feel? Are they like the separate districts of city or just a big homogeneous group of Shinra employees?
[/quote]

Well we know from The case of Denzel that sector 5 was the place where all the important ShinRa employees live, tho the rest are a mystery.

[quote author=Tetsujin link=topic=590.msg22903#msg22903 date=1235555491]
I wanna know where the elevators for the DG troops and tanks and everything are. Those must be massive. Where do they lead to? o.o
[/quote]

An even better question is how did they get those helicopters out? Cause it certainly couldn't be where the WRO rescue crew opened up, and if they had this access, why didn't they use it to escape earlier?

[quote author=Tetsujin link=topic=590.msg22903#msg22903 date=1235555491]
Also, I'd like to point out once more that I would like to see Midgar in broad daylight for once.
[/quote]

It's not Square's but will this do? =D



[quote author=Dark and Divine link=topic=590.msg22906#msg22906 date=1235555918]

I think that it was stated in the Ultimania that the Slums were originally several towns, each one with it won name and such.

It's possible that Deepground's city was one of those towns, with the Cebtral Pillar being constructed around it.
[/quote]

Well the central pillar is much too small to contain a massive geofront, plus DG is miles underground.

I guess if one were to go with Tetsujin's suggestion about it being a lost city, maybe it belonged to the Anicents who stopped traversing the planet? Cause if they lived in an underground city it would make sense how they were able to survive Jenova's massacre.

 

[Dark and Divine]

[quote author=NoenGaruth link=topic=590.msg22917#msg22917 date=1235559252]
Well the central pillar is much too small to contain a massive geofront, plus DG is miles underground.

I guess if one were to go with Tetsujin's suggestion about it being a lost city, maybe it belonged to the Anicents who stopped traversing the planet? Cause if they lived in an underground city it would make sense how they were able to survive Jenova's massacre.
[/quote]

But the city's architecture doesn't seem to be 2000 years old, in the same manner that such period of time would rot away the buildings a lot more than it was apparent in DOC.

 

[NoenGaruth]

[quote author=Dark and Divine link=topic=590.msg22918#msg22918 date=1235559549]
[quote author=NoenGaruth link=topic=590.msg22917#msg22917 date=1235559252]
Well the central pillar is much too small to contain a massive geofront, plus DG is miles underground.

I guess if one were to go with Tetsujin's suggestion about it being a lost city, maybe it belonged to the Anicents who stopped traversing the planet? Cause if they lived in an underground city it would make sense how they were able to survive Jenova's massacre.
[/quote]

But the city's architecture doesn't seem to be 2000 years old, in the same manner that such period of time would rot away the buildings a lot more than it was apparent in DOC.
[/quote]

Well then we can only conclude that DG is just like that town that was teleported underground in Fullmetal Alchemist...cause honestly, that seems like the only reason a city that big would be miles under ground, unless Shinra thought it would be fun to see how much money they can blow at once.

 

[ForceStealer]

[quote author=Tetsujin link=topic=590.msg22903#msg22903 date=1235555491]Also, I'd like to point out once more that I would like to see Midgar in broad daylight for once.[/quote]

It IS a little weird. I always thought that the point they were trying to make is that the air over Midgar so polluted that it never looks like day time - corroborated by the fact that everything darkens if you fly the Highwind over it. But if it were really THAT polluted no one would be able to breathe. Also, in AC you can see it in the setting sun ad there's no way that much pollution would dissipate so quickly (though I suppose you could argue Holy+Meteor+Lifestream fixed it.)

But I guess they just...always wanted to see it at night to be ominous or something. And, cities in general look more impressive at night with all the lights.

 

[Dark and Divine]

[quote author=NoenGaruth link=topic=590.msg22928#msg22928 date=1235562675]
Well then we can only conclude that DG is just like that town that was teleported underground in Fullmetal Alchemist...cause honestly, that seems like the only reason a city that big would be miles under ground, unless Shinra thought it would be fun to see how much money they can blow at once.
[/quote]

Maybe the city was already there before Midgar's consruction, as i said, but due to the Reactor 0 and the Central Pillar's construction process, it sank enough to be concealed under Midgar.

Or maybe is due to the wonders of "WTF?".

 

[Tetsujin]

[quote author=ForceStealer link=topic=590.msg22936#msg22936 date=1235565079]
[quote author=Tetsujin link=topic=590.msg22903#msg22903 date=1235555491]Also, I'd like to point out once more that I would like to see Midgar in broad daylight for once.[/quote]

It IS a little weird. I always thought that the point they were trying to make is that the air over Midgar so polluted that it never looks like day time - corroborated by the fact that everything darkens if you fly the Highwind over it. But if it were really THAT polluted no one would be able to breathe. Also, in AC you can see it in the setting sun ad there's no way that much pollution would dissipate so quickly (though I suppose you could argue Holy+Meteor+Lifestream fixed it.)

But I guess they just...always wanted to see it at night to be ominous or something. And, cities in general look more impressive at night with all the lights.
[/quote]

Yeah, it's just the same as how Junon is always seen at dusk.
But because of that a lot of people assumed that Midgar just always IS dark. Although we can actually see the first glimpse of daylight and also stars in the sky after the highway chase in FFVII.
Not to mention, it seems to be day when you're just outside the entrance to Sector 5.
And ultimately, we can see a cloudy but definitely bright daytime sky from underneath the plate in Crisis Core.
It's just...we never get to see Midgar's upper plate and the city in daylight. I guess they don't want to suggest that citizens there could actually experience bright and happy summer days.

Lol, thanks for that pic Noen xD

Though your Midgar looks almost too bright in the light. Are the textures too bright or is it just reflecting too much?
Then again, it's not finished yet so maybe it's because of that.

Ok from what i can see in AC, they had lots of scaffolding under the outer plates to support then. And I'm pretty sure the outer plate falls with sector 7

I'm pretty sure that the outer plate actually didn't fall.
I'll have to check that...

 

[ForceStealer]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISLereSDJbo#noexternalembed

From 0:31 on you can see the broadest shot of the collapse and...you can't really tell. That spotlight falls in which suggests at least the rim stayed up. ...or something

 

[Tetsujin]

No, it's actually pretty good to see. The outer plate is definitely still up during that point of time.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

It IS a little weird. I always thought that the point they were trying to make is that the air over Midgar so polluted that it never looks like day time - corroborated by the fact that everything darkens if you fly the Highwind over it. But if it were really THAT polluted no one would be able to breathe.

I never thought it was all that weird. Between the Mako being drained, and all of the pollution being pumped out of the reactors, I just assumed the sky was so dark that sun never really shined. Sure, it wasn't constantly night, but I figured the brightest it got was an overcast like look. As far as it being too polluted to breathe, well, it's a fantasy game.

 

[NoenGaruth]

[quote author=ForceStealer link=topic=590.msg22945#msg22945 date=1235566779]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISLereSDJbo#noexternalembed

From 0:31 on you can see the broadest shot of the collapse and...you can't really tell. That spotlight falls in which suggests at least the rim stayed up. ...or something
[/quote]

Interesting...so it stayed up, actually that makes sense since the outerplates in FF7 had proper supports under them.

Well, least we know it toppled by the time AC came around.

[quote author=Tetsujin link=topic=590.msg22941#msg22941 date=1235566327]

Lol, thanks for that pic Noen xD

Though your Midgar looks almost too bright in the light. Are the textures too bright or is it just reflecting too much?
Then again, it's not finished yet so maybe it's because of that.
[/quote]

Yeah it is too bright, it's a Maya thing, with the Sun all the textures come out too Bright and washed out unless you do this gamma correction thing, which i couldn't be bothered doing. XD

 

[Makoeyes987]

What's really fucked up, is that the 10th Anniversary Ultimania says absolutely nothing about the buildings within Deepground. They just say, "lol Deepground is deep" and that's it.

I honestly don't get why they put all those old ass civilian looking buildings deep underground.

You put up some good ideas Noengaruth.

But holy shit Tets, I have no fucking clue HOW they would get all that machinary underground. The only conceivable answer I have, is that Nero uses his Darkness to freely transport the machinery in and out of Deepground.

 

[Tetsujin]

[quote author=Makoeyes987 link=topic=590.msg23039#msg23039 date=1235588867]
What's really fucked up, is that the 10th Anniversary Ultimania says absolutely nothing about the buildings within Deepground. They just say, "lol Deepground is deep" and that's it.

I honestly don't get why they put all those old ass civilian looking buildings deep underground.

You put up some good ideas Noengaruth.

But holy shit Tets, I have no fucking clue HOW they would get all that machinary underground. The only conceivable answer I have, is that Nero uses his Darkness to freely transport the machinery in and out of Deepground.
[/quote]

That'd be possible but I'm sure ShinRa didn't count on stuff like that when they made DG. There must be fucking huge elevators or other access tunnels to move people and machinery in and out of there.

BUT HOW COULD NO ONE EVER NOTICE?!

 

[Ryushikaze]

Actually, that is an idea- Maybe when DG was first formed, all that crap wasn't there. It was just a barren stockpile/geofront, and Nero's been stealing stuff willy nilly.

 

[Ravynne Nevyrmore]

So that's what happened to my other sock. >< Damn you, Nero!

I never even noticed that there was an "outer" plate. Wow.

 

[ForceStealer]

Really? I've often wondered what was out there since yo can always see it in the whole-city shows but no one ever says anything about it.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

I always figured it was industrial centers, factories, and such.

 

[NoenGaruth]

[quote author=The Notorious M.O.G. link=topic=590.msg23374#msg23374 date=1235633321]
I always figured it was industrial centers, factories, and such.
[/quote]

Yeah it pretty much looks that way from the opening of Crisis Core with the train, most of the buildings appear to be factories and such, cause you don't want that stuff near people's homes.

 

[Purple]

I'm curious how houses in Midgar look like. I mean do people live in buildings? townhouses?

All I can see are steel works and the Shinra buildings