Most & Least Evil Villain?

[Nikkolas]

Simple enough questions.
Which (main) antagonist in the series did you find the most malicious, sadistic and all-around bad to the point there was no real hope of redemption?
(a strong hunch says Kefka will win a lot of votes here...)

On the other side of the spectrum, which of the (main) villains encountered in the series did you think weren't all that bad? Perhaps they committed evil acts but they themselves were misguided or warped by trauma in their life.

 

[Ⓐaron]

Anyone who says anything other than Kefka for most evil simply wasn't paying attention. FFVI doesn't even try to justify his actions with psychological explanations; he just derives pleasure out of others' suffering. The game doesn't bother providing any explanation beyond that he snapped after a Magitek experiment, and to be honest, I think it would suffer if it did. There is no way to ethically justify his actions, and he doesn't even care; actually, scratch that, he'd actually probably be outraged if there were. That pretty much makes him the perfect antagonist, at least by a number of criteria.

As far as least evil, I got the impression that Seymour and Kuja were intended to be portrayed at least somewhat sympathetically. However, Seymour had a short-sighted, life-denying philosophy which prevented him from being any less infantile than the Columbine killers and Kuja was pretty much stuck in a third-grade "NO U" mentality (though to be fair, finding out that he was constructed for purposes utterly beyond his control and was basically a puppet would be enough to make anyone snap just a bit).

 

[Makoeyes987]

I'm gonna have to say ExDeath. ExDeath is the sum total of the countless evil souls and energies that were sealed within the Great Sealing Tree of Moore that finally coagulated and gained sentience after Enuo's defeat. ExDeath is essentially a big giant sponge of evil that grew a mind of its own and a desire to control the void and rule all dimensions. And then it got even stronger once it got consumed by the Void and threatened to absorb all of existence.

ExDeath isn't even human. It's....a sentient tree of evil. Its cruel, destructive, powerful, and very hard to kill. ExDeath is certainly pure evil. There is no redemption or humanity in such a being at all.

Another truly evil being would probably be the wicked Emperor Mateus who just truly has no heart or soul of any kind. He's so fucking evil that when he goes to Hell he punches out Satan and takes control of Hell for himself. He's able to control demons, create powerful cyclones, lead a demonic army to rule the world, and just....he's very evil.

I'll also have to say Kuja was probably the least evil, but still...he was pretty evil when he was doing it. He was made to be an Angel of Death after all and he fulfilled his role zealously. He was cold and cruel but in the end he is in a way a victim of circumstance, being an artificially created lifeform that didn't really know any better.

 

[Ⓐaron]

Exdeath does want to annihilate the whole of existence and turn it into one gigantic void of nothingness, but so does Kefka. What distinguishes the two of them for me is that Kefka wants to do it because he enjoys watching people suffer. There's no indication throughout any of FFV that Exdeath gets pleasure out of people's torment. Indeed, there's nothing that we could describe as emotion at all. Maybe Exdeath still is more "evil" for a certain definition of the word, but it's not something anyone can relate to.

I'm not familiar with Emperor Mateus. I'm not even sure what game he's from.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Actually...ExDeath is pretty sadistic too. His dialogue reeks of sarcasm, sadism and just...enjoyment. He happily uses the void to consume the areas where Bartz and co's friends and family are and sends his monsters to attack people and civilians. And when Krille tries to save everyone he ends up slowly trying to kill her and torture her before Galuf goes uber and starts beating the shit out of him. And he seems to have some sort of fixation on wanting to expose his enemy's viscera. That's pretty damn sick. ExDeath has no humanity or tragic past. He merely "is." He's an evil being born from countless other beings that were left to stew in a tree. He's evil incarnate. He's so evil and inhuman that really there's nothing *to* relate to. He's just a fucking mad tree that wants to cruelly destroy the world and control the ultimate force of nothingness. I mean, the fucker even flings a forest of Moogles into the void just for shits and giggles. That's sick.

Kefka's evil but he was once a person and was human. And even though he's a sick fuck now, his descent into madness was a sad one, slowly losing his ability to enjoy things, feeling lonely, being unable to relate with Celes who he felt feelings, etc. He's a sick fuck now, but he was made that way due to the Empire fucking with his head.

Emperor Mateus of Palamecia is from FFII.

 

[ForceStealer]

Yeah, I think what makes Kefka so unique is that he was the only villain in the series who through the entire game was the sole architect of the entire evil plan. I'm not very familiar with FFII so maybe Emperor Bowie Mateus was too. But as far as I know Kefka is the only one to be the only villain for the entire length of a game. And he is pretty damn evil.

I guess Seymour was the least evil, as a bastion for the road to hell being paved in good intentions. They never showed him taking pleasure in the suffering of others apart from kissing Yuna. And since his plan involved merging with Sin, he never really got the chance to hurt anyone but Yuna and her guardians.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Mateus is pretty much the entire architect, period. And even when you kill him he comes back. Straight out of hell. He's always the enemy.

And ExDeath is the consistent villain of FFV. ExDeath is always the one true enemy from the beginning to the end.

So you can't really say Kefka was the first in that regard.

....And I think you're forgetting his entire massacre of the Ronso tribe, dude. He enjoyed that a lot. And he killed a lot of them. Almost wiped them out.

 

[ForceStealer]

As I said, I know little of FF2, but Exdeath is different. Maybe "architect" was a poor choice of words on my part, but Exdeath isn't a villain in V until he's unsealed He looms as being sealed by the crystals, but isn't there. What I was saying about Kefka is that he was the only the villain you ever fought and ever would fight, as such, there was never any other villains fighting you until you revealed the true villain.

And you're right, I did forget about the massacre of the Ronso, its been awhile since I played X. The only other candidate for least evil though is Kuja, due to his reconciliation. But I wonder what makes one more evil: killing a tribe and enjoying it, or destroying a planet but in a fit of rage rather than pleasure...

 

[Masamune]

[quote author=Makoeyes987 link=topic=723.msg31918#msg31918 date=1237459834]....And I think you're forgetting his entire massacre of the Ronso tribe, dude. He enjoyed that a lot. And he killed a lot of them. Almost wiped them out.[/quote]

Because in his psychotic mind, he was putting them out of their misery.


I'm surprised no one has mentioned Hojo. I know he wasn't the main villain, but he was - by extension - responsible for the crisis in FFVII. The archetypical mad scientist, who only rationalized his crimes by his ambition. He tortured, murdered, plagiarized, without any shred of reason or contrition.

 

[HylianMogget]

Kefka for most evil, I think. He was psychotic and sadistic, and the game's narrative makes no attempt to evoke any sort of sympathy for him, unlike in VII where Sephiroth's character before Nibelheim was at least hinted at. Plus, I think having him once have been human and not expanding upon it makes him a bit more detestable than casting him as some wholly "Evil" supernatural force. But I haven't played II or V, so I can't judge him against the villains of those games, though. Hojo is a close second, though; he's really the one that sets a lot of the game's events in motion, and is, again, very unsympathetic.

Least evil would be Vayne; he does some bad stuff but his overall goal was not evil so he's made out to be more tragic than villainous. Maybe Golbez, too, since he was being controlled and whatnot, but then he kind of doesn't count because of that. Kuja did act to redeem himself in the end, and he does seem to come off as one of the more sympathetic FF villains, but in terms of his actions I think he's also one of the more "successful" villains in that he destroys a lot of stuff.

 

[Buster Sword]

[quote author=V link=topic=723.msg31895#msg31895 date=1237450636]
Anyone who says anything other than Kefka for most evil simply wasn't paying attention[/quote]LMAO, lol opinion.

Anyways Tonberry takes this, I mean fucking hell "Knife"? BAM and a mother fucking fork in your eye, thats one sick evil sun of a bitch, no remorse, doesn't give a shit about your status, you're fucking pwned.

Least evil, has to be Magic Pot, come on guys, the poor dude just wants a friggin Elixir, he'd happily let you pwn him as soon as you give it to him, how many villians are willing to let you kill them just for something you can replicate 1 zillion times?

 

[Nikkolas]

While Kuja was )easily, IMO) te most sympathetic villain of the series, I always thought of Shuyin as the least evil. He was trying to destroy the world but this was after a solid millennium of mourning his failure of Lenne and he even has a good point.
“Spira hasn’t really changd at all. Everyone’s still fighting over nothing; still dying like they used to. A thousand years have passed and they can’t leave the hatred behind.”

 

[SOLDIERis1337]

Kefka gets my vote for most evil villain. While Exdeath and Mateus both commit horrible atrocities, their motives weren't as sadistic as Kefka's. Exdeath simply wanted to erase everything, he wanted to see the main party suffer or trying to stop him, but the rest of the universe was just scenery to him that needed to stop existing. Mateus wanted to rule the world because he craved power above all else, and so he was willing to do anything he felt necessary to achieve that. Kefka, on the other hand, does what he does because he gets a sick pleasure in all of it. He thinks its funny to poison cities, kill his master, ruin the world, and Light of Judgment any town who speaks against him, he's having a blast the entire time. He even has lines that tell us how much fun he has with all this needless death and chaos like, "Hee-hee-hee! What fun is destruction without the loss of 'precious' lives?" This sets into stone my belief that Kefka has the other beat in the sadistic and evil department.

As for least evil, I'd go with Golbez. He certainly wasn't good prior to Zemus influencing his action, as he says there was darkness and evil in his heart long before all of this, but a lot of the time he was being influenced by someone else's hatred and realized the error of all his ways before the end of the game.

 

[Makoeyes987]

ExDeath only wanted to erase everything when the Void went bonkers and swallowed him up after being beaten the first time by the Warriors of Light. He wasn't in it to just erase existence, he wanted to rule over the dimensions.

But I see your point regarding Kefka's chaotic nature. But really, if that's what it takes to be evil...just wanting to destroy for destruction's sake, then Cloud of Darkness would be just as evil since she literally pops out from her little hidey-hole in the void when the balance of light and dark is disturbed and relishes just trying to end existence because she can and she likes it.

Part of me wanted to say Golbez too but I was under the impression it was final villains and not just villains in general. If we're talking about any of the villains, then yeah..Golbez would get my vote since he was evil due to be mind controlled. Zemus took advantage of his weakness and insecurity and made him into a little moon-man puppet.

 

[Nikkolas]

That's why I only wanted this to be about the main villains. Edea also would be a candidate for least villainous as she was controlled.

 

[SOLDIERis1337]

But I see your point regarding Kefka's chaotic nature. But really, if that's what it takes to be evil...just wanting to destroy for destruction's sake, then Cloud of Darkness would be just as evil since she literally pops out from her little hidey-hole in the void when the balance of light and dark is disturbed and relishes just trying to end existence because she can and she likes it.

But Kefka wasn't into destruction for destructions sake, he was into destruction because he found humor and enjoyment in people suffering and dying. That's what puts him over Exdeath in my book.

That's why I only wanted this to be about the main villains. Edea also would be a candidate for least villainous as she was controlled.

The difference between Golbez and Edea is that Golbez was being influenced by Zemus to do his bidding, but he still had evil and was still able to realize what his actions were. Edea was literally a puppet of Ultimecia, every movement, word and action of hers was Ultimecia controlling her.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Yeah, Kefka's pretty evil and sadistic but I just don't see how a human's evil capacity can be greater than a being who was born from nothing but pure negativity and evil. ExDeath was literally spawned from the darkest beings sealed in that big ass tree. There is no shred of light or goodness in that things heart. Same could be said for the Cloud of Darkness. And if you're so evil and badass that you can punch out Satan and then call yourself "king of hell"...

Then that's one person I seriously wouldn't want to meet.

I see Kefka as the Joker, and ExDeath as a lesser sort of Anti-Monitor. I mean, both are evil. Kefka's a twisted fuck, but ExDeath is evil in a cosmic, and much larger scale. He's not human. His...malice is on a different level than the pure, psychotic and sadistic nature of Kefka. Same goes for even the Cloud of Darkness and her just literally popping out to just devour all of existence.

And really, how the hell could I leave out Chaos? The first and the last. Hell, he's the Darkseid of the FF villains. A fucking dark god of evil itself.

 

[Masamune]

Evil cannot be quantified.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Yes it can!

I mean, c'mon. If you had a choice between being left alone in a room with either Kuja, Ultimecia, or ExDeath for 5 minutes, who are you gonna chose?

And you HAVE to choose one.

Clearly some villains are more prone to evil acts than others.

 

[Masamune]

But it doesn't make the evil committed by one any less than the evil committed by the other.

It's no consolation to the victims whether their villain has a misguided motive or not. And it doesn't matter how frequently they choose to flex it. Evil is as evil does.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I know, you're right. I'm just having way too much fun doing this and quantifying it like this, even though I know it makes absolutely no objective sense whatsoever

 

[Sprites]

I'm going to have to agree that Kefka is probably the most evil villain, he was just an awful person who enjoyed every second of it, no remorse, nothing.

Least Evil....for me its Kuja who I actually thought was quite an entertaining villain and felt sorry for him at the very end. I guess Shuyin from FFX-2 could be counted as least evil as well, he was simply caught up in his despair that he couldn't save Lenne and believed that in calling up vegnagun he'd stop anymore wars happening..even if it did mean destroying the world.

 

[Buster Sword]

[quote author=Masamune link=topic=723.msg32246#msg32246 date=1237500432]
But it doesn't make the evil committed by one any less than the evil committed by the other.

It's no consolation to the victims whether their villain has a misguided motive or not. And it doesn't matter how frequently they choose to flex it. Evil is as evil does.
[/quote]stfu and let the blacker preach

 

[Purple]

Least evil...Hmm, Sin/Jecht/Whatever the hell it is.

 

[ForceStealer]

[quote author=Makoeyes987 link=topic=723.msg32130#msg32130 date=1237495201]Part of me wanted to say Golbez too but I was under the impression it was final villains and not just villains in general.[/quote]

But then Kuja wouldn't even be in the running, we'd have to use Necron which...who knows how evil or not evil he was. His existence was almost entirely "Kuja-was-too-easy-for-a-final-boss-so-fight-ME!"