Obi-Wan Disney+ Series

Roger

Triple Slash Enthusiast
AKA
Minato
#26
The purpose of the story is still to tell its own story – Rebels is telling a story about growing up, gaining a family in those who are closest to you, and ultimately learning how to stand up for things you believe in, even when you don't rally everyone else to your cause.

It's not reductive to the story that the characters in it also serve the purpose of fleshing out small details of other characters & events during that time by selecting backgrounds for them that allow them to naturally be in a position to explore those things that people already know and find interesting. Not every story needs to exist in a complete vacuum – especially those in Star Wars. They're using the setting to embrace it, not to shy away from it, as that's a core part of storybuilding in a connected universe. Rebels is a group who is a focal point for those interactions because of the character's backgrounds and connections to existing elements of the universe at the time. New characters don't need to bump into every legacy character possible, but they also shouldn't be permitted from doing so if it makes sense and is telling an interesting story that serves to develop all the characters involved.
I don't feel they were in a natural position to do that. The characters they meet up with would go on to believe Obi-Wan is their only hope. And there after, hang out with Luke for whom opportunities to learn about the Force and the Jedi were not available outside of finding Yoda. Ahsoka, personal friend of Artoo, Bail Organa and so on makes that problematic. The opening crawl of A New Hope tells us the Rebels have just won their first victory of note over the Empire. Rogue One tells the story of those events, Rebels however has Vader, Tarkin, Thrawn, Yularen and the Emperor himself turn their attention to Lothal, and sees them defeated and ousted on a planetary scale outright. Then there's Lando happening to come across these characters within a week of Leia, Hondo meeting up with them within days of Ahsoka and so on. I see praise for the Mandalorian for making the universe feel bigger for having people that don't know Jedi or the Force of what exactly a Mandalorian is. Rebels makes the galaxy feel quite small.


Also, Stormtrooper accuracy jokes are literally all over in Star Wars stuff. I'm not sure why you're picking this out – but again, this is why it's important to have watched something before you try to criticize it. Both of the times those sort of jokes occur in the series are specifically to make a juxtaposition to demonstrate the differences between the regular Stormtroopers who are essentially grunts just interested in a paycheck, from the elite military individuals like Imperial Sharpshooters & Death Troopers that were also a core component of the Imperial army.
Rebels and the Mandalorian are where the accuracy of Stormtroopers became a joke characters in the universe itself might tell each other. Disney had a choice when they acquired the licence, to treat the Stormtrooper seriously or play into the joke status they have among the fandom. You can like their choice, others might not.
 
#27
I'm not critiquing Mando, I'm explaining why it doesn't appeal to me, from what I've heard. You cited it as an example of 'well done tie ins', and I'm of the opinion, from what I've heard, that that isn't true, at least for me. I haven't seen these scenes, I could be wrong, but there's just so many tie ins and references to other works coming up in conversations that it sounds like something I'm not interested in.

I personally do not like excessive tie ins. You may disagree on that, or my definition of 'excessive', which is fine. I'm not against them completely, but there's just so many showing up constantly in the recent works we have that they've become something I don't want to see any more without very good reasons.

New characters don't need to bump into every legacy character possible, but they also shouldn't be permitted from doing so if it makes sense and is telling an interesting story that serves to develop all the characters involved.
Agreed, but IMO they're not very good at doing that. You likely disagree. Okay. The more times it happens, though, the less plausible it becomes, and it's happening a lot.

That means the only context you have is that, it "has a thing you don't like the sound of, so it must be used in a way you don't like it being used, so that must be indicative of the majority of said thing" which is far from accurate of the examples you gave.
Maybe so. That wasn't an exhaustive list, there's just so many things like that that I cited a few to illustrate the point. I don't hate the show, I'm just not interested in it.

lso, Stormtrooper accuracy jokes are literally all over in Star Wars stuff. I'm not sure why you're picking this out – but again, this is why it's important to have watched something before you try to criticize it. Both of the times those sort of jokes occur in the series are specifically to make a juxtaposition to demonstrate the differences between the regular Stormtroopers who are essentially grunts just interested in a paycheck, from the elite military individuals like Imperial Sharpshooters & Death Troopers that were also a core component of the Imperial army.
As I understand it, the conversation goes like this:

Person: I'm an Imperial Sharpshooter.

Mando: That's not hard.

Person: I'm not a stormtrooper!
The thing is, it's also established that the Mandalorians have been purged by the empire. This likely means that the stormtroopers killed most/a lot of the Mandalorians. So the Mandalorian is cracking a joke about how ineffective the forces that slaughtered his adoptive family's ancestors are, which is absolutely awful character writing, in aid of a joke.

Maybe this is wrong, I dunno. I regard it as a bad sign, though. And there has been enough 'bad signs' to make me not interested. It could be a fantastic show, I don't know. I didn't set out to hate the show or look only for the bad things, I looked into the conversations people were having about it (including those that liked it), and they things they liked didn't interest me.

Counterpoint: Living alone in the middle of nowhere isn't the only way to hide, and Kenobi disappearing without being killed just means that the Empire and Vader would be even more interested in finding him. Drawing attention away from where he's hiding can also an important part of remaining hidden in the long-term.
Maybe. Very difficult to do well, though.
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
#28
@Clement Rage
I don't know if it helps at all, but as someone who agrees that "Rebels" overdid those crossovers, I don't think "The Mandalorian" comes anywhere close. Honestly, I thought they may even have overdone going out of their way to avoid that.

And for the most part, what references there are don't even feel like attempts at audience winks. That cantina seat thing, for example, rode right under a lot of people's radar. Either you're looking for it to see if it's there, confirm that it is, and go "Hm, that's interesting"; or you miss it and your overall experience isn't impacted.

The only exceptions to this may be the two jokes about Stormtroopers. Either that sort of humor works for someone or it doesn't, and I can understand why it doesn't work for you. I will say, though, that despite it being in there, the actual threat level presented by them when they're present is not played for any joke.
 
#29
That does mean something, but... it's still not something I'm all that interested in checking out for its own sake. If I did watch it, it would be to keep up with continuity or be fully informed for these conversations. (I'm sorry to all that this keeps happening, by the way)

I'm not saying anyone's being deceptive or whatever, but we've pretty firmly established by now that we tend towards different tastes.

An individual example I could be convinced was taken out of context, but there's just so many coming up.
Apparently Mando has a carbonite freezing chamber in his ship. There are arguments we could make for why this is, but probably the real reason is to make an ESB reference.

Mando has a disintegration gun. Arguments can be made, but the real reason is probably to callback to "No disintegrations".

And so on, and so on, until we get to the Darksaber, which is another tie in.

Added to the fact that I dislike the concept of baby yodaling on multiple levels (yes, really), and I've never found Mandalorians all that interesting in the first place, and...well. It could still be a great show, but it's unlikely to be one I'm interested in.

Making a stab at getting back on topic, if Kenobi really was too similar to the Mandalorian, someone should probably have caught that before now.
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
#30
I promise to let you get the thread back on topic after this ... =P ... but in a shared universe, certain commonalities should just be expected as a matter of course. They're not all (playing at) slyly referencing one another.

There's no more issue to take with a second dude in a suit of Mandalorian battle armor having a wrist-mounted flamethrower, a grappling cable, or, indeed, a rifle capable of disintegrating a target -- than there is with a second Jedi utilizing mind trickery. I sincerely hope no one reacted to Qui-Gon trying to use it on Watto with "::eyeroll:: Oh, here we go."

As great a crime as overdoing references is, equally so would be not making use of established elements of a shared universe -- especially when it comes to exceptional lifestyles or character types. For instance, the bounty hunter Sugi used an EE-3 carbine rifle, just like Boba Fett, in the season 2 TCW episode "Bounty Hunters." I can't comprehend how that could be problematic.

Also, it would lessen my personal enjoyment of the notion of a shared reality if we couldn't have shared elements, and that would be the greatest crime of all. =P
 

Roger

Triple Slash Enthusiast
AKA
Minato
#31
There are many bounty hunters in the galaxy, many Mandalorians as well, this one was likewise based out of Tatioone where carbonite freezing may very well have caught on after ESB. That's world building. Using the rifle that Boba Fett uses in holiday special to stun that creature in the pilot just like in holiday special yet also disintegrate stuff like Boba Fett is said to do in canon I'd definitely call tongue in cheek references. Holiday Special and it's Boba Fett are not canon, this was something for fans who did however see.
 
#32
Most of my favourite works tend to be shared universes. Malazan Book of the Fallen, LOTR, Liveship Traders/Six Duchies, Batman Comics, Discworld. FF7 (you may have heard of it) I'm not on some kind of crusade against shared elements. But too many in one story can really damage a narrative.

I didn't complain about the flamethrower or grappling rope. I'll just assume they come with the armour.

Carbonite freezing could theoretically have caught on (and no longer needed a big industrial facility, and become inexpensive enough for a shoestring operation), but most likely it's there for the reference.

Disintegration rifles exist, but they're a really weird thing for a bounty hunter to carry. You can't prove you've killed the target if they're a pile of ash. Most likely it's there for the reference. Does any other character in the story carry one?

You can argue against these things individually, but the more of them crop up in the same story, the harder it is to argue.
 
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