Official FF XIII site gets updated with Gadot, Maqui and Lebreau profiles

[Makoeyes987]

Every Final Fantasy has token black guys now...?

Wow.

FYI, Arianna, I wasn't referring to *you* in regards to Amano. It was just a parallel to show that Nomura's style isn't the only one that's recognizable. I was mostly sharing the sentiments of pornography. I could've used Akihiko Yoshida but I find Amano to simply be a better parallel since Amano was the main designer for FF's 1 through 6.

To be honest, Dacon has a point that a character designer should do their best to stay as original as possible. However, art in and of itself is a creative fingerprint. A character designer can't help but constantly reveal their artistic trademark and "tells" that they fall back on in terms of their creative development. And unless the artist takes effort to re-invent themselves every so often, you WILL find similarities with their past work. Especially when you know its theirs.

Because you're fucking *looking* for it. It's that simple. Comparison of previous works is fine, but it gets obnoxious that each and every time some states the obvious that X character looks like Y character when they're from the same artist. I mean, really. Shit like that is not that surprising at all. Sibling artists can even have similar styles. It's just the way art can happen.

 

[Arianna]

[quote author=Makoeyes987 link=topic=633.msg27958#msg27958 date=1236376820]To be honest, Dacon has a point that a character designer should do their best to stay as original as possible. However, art in and of itself is a creative fingerprint. A character designer can't help but constantly reveal their artistic trademark and "tells" that they fall back on in terms of their creative development. And unless the artist takes effort to re-invent themselves every so often, you WILL find similarities with their past work. Especially when you know its theirs.

Because you're fucking *looking* for it. It's that simple. Comparison of previous works is fine, but it gets obnoxious that each and every time some states the obvious that X character looks like Y character when they're from the same artist. I mean, really. Shit like that is not that surprising at all. Sibling artists can even have similar styles. It's just the way art can happen.[/quote]

I think I get more of your (and Dacon's) point now. It does get old after a while; and it's also true what Dacon said, that some effort should be placed into making the characters as original as possible per world - unless they are related.

 

[Max Payne]

[quote author=Makoeyes987 link=topic=633.msg27958#msg27958 date=1236376820]


To be honest, Dacon has a point that a character designer should do their best to stay as original as possible. However, art in and of itself is a creative fingerprint. A character designer can't help but constantly reveal their artistic trademark and "tells" that they fall back on in terms of their creative development. And unless the artist takes effort to re-invent themselves every so often, you WILL find similarities with their past work. Especially when you know its theirs. [/quote]

I disagree.

 

[Masamune]

All artists/character designers have a distinctive style and specific traits to their work, but what separates the good from the bad are those who are able to differentiate their characters through subtle distinctions.

Contrary to what some say, I am a fan of Nomura. I do love his overall style, but he just frustrates me when I see him regurgitate the same generic characters. He's better than that. But I don't think it helps when he's designing game after game. If I had to write consecutive stories in a short space of time, you can bet your bottom dollar a lot of them would be derivative and rushed.

 

[Tetsujin]

[quote author=Masamune link=topic=633.msg27971#msg27971 date=1236377376]
All artists/character designers have a distinctive style and specific traits to their work, but what separates the good from the bad are those who are able to differentiate their characters through subtle distinctions.

Contrary to what some say, I am a fan of Nomura. I do love his overall style, but he just frustrates me when I see him regurgitate the same generic characters. He's better than that. But I don't think it helps when he's designing game after game. If I had to write consecutive stories in a short space of time, you can bet your bottom dollar a lot of them would be derivative and rushed.
[/quote]

Nomura needs more direction, someone who tells him, "do it more like (blah)" "I want something along the lines of (etc)" or sth like that.

 

[Arianna]

[quote author=Masamune link=topic=633.msg27971#msg27971 date=1236377376]...I don't think it helps when he's designing game after game. If I had to write consecutive stories in a short space of time, you can bet your bottom dollar a lot of them would be derivative and rushed.[/quote]

Agreed; I've noticed that with my art, even though I'm not a professional, yet. My brain is not swift on the creative juices all the time; I need rest and relaxation, time to just breathe before I go onto a next major project. Granted, when I (hope to) go pro, that may have to be a really short breather - but I can say that I know I couldn't handle two or more major projects at one time.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I'm saying if you look for it, and know what to see, you're gonna find their quirk and design style that sets them apart. Because its in your face so much.

Artists can definitely reinvent themselves to stay fresh and unique, which is good! But when you know what to look for in regards to creative interpretation, you *will* see it.

Fuck, Bruce Timm who I love has a style that..while it has improved and changed, it still is *his* style. You see it.

Kouta Hirano's style has improved and changed since him making doujinshi and pr0n and then finally Crossfire and Hellsing but holy shit, you still SEE it.

It's what happens in rapid succession media. People will be saturated by the artist's works. They'll see them so much and they'll be iconic. The style will be recognized so much because its in the viewers face so much. I'm sure if the audience saw less of Amano and Nomura, the tune would change. A lot.

I think Masamune hit the same point I did.

 

[Masamune]

[quote author=Tetsujin link=topic=633.msg27973#msg27973 date=1236377486]Nomura needs more direction, someone who tells him, "do it more like (blah)" "I want something along the lines of (etc)" or sth like that.[/quote]

Yeah, that's what happened in FFX. I wonder if it would happen now that Nomura has somewhat escalated in the SE hierarchy, directing his own movies/games. He's pretty much their golden boy.

 

[Max Payne]

[quote author=Makoeyes987 link=topic=633.msg27975#msg27975 date=1236377638]
I'm saying if you look for it, and know what to see, you're gonna find their quirk and design style that sets them apart. Because its in your face so much.

Artists can definitely reinvent themselves to stay fresh and unique, which is good! But when you know what to look for in regards to creative interpretation, you *will* see it.[/quote]

See, they don't have to reinvent themselves, they just have to put in a bit more effort. Nomura is just too comfortable with what he's doing now to try anything different.

Fuck, Bruce Timm who I love has a style that..while it has improved and changed, it still is *his* style. You see it.

Bruce Timm's art has gotten worse imo, over the years it's gotten more and more simplified, and he heavily suffers from sameface disorder. I like his work but I'm not gonna lie.

Kouta Hirano's style has improved and changed since him making doujinshi and pr0n and then finally Crossfire and Hellsing but holy shit, you still SEE it.

He's back to making pron again btw.

I'm sure if the audience saw less of Amano and Nomura, the tune would change. A lot.

Eh, I think if Nomura tried something new, experimented with a few things people would be satisfied.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Nomura had direction when he was designing the character designs for Dissidia.

They look extremely good because it's almost a perfect blend of Amano's original and elegant work and Nomura's unique and sexy style.

I really don't think the FFXIII characters are that derivative though. They aren't as "bad" as Nomura can be. People claim this is "generic Nomura" but I hardly think that's the truth. They do fit the style of FFXIII's unique techno-fantasy future along with their stylized clothes. It's not a world that's been seen since maybe FFVIII.

See, they don't have to reinvent themselves, they just have to put in a bit more effort. Nomura is just too comfortable with what he's doing now to try anything different.

I think Nomura's biggest leaps in doing something different was between FFVII and FFVIII. and FFX and Kingdom Hearts. After that, he's hit a sort of level where yeah, he's kinda comfortable. But I do like this level he's at and I've only been disappointed in his design potential just a few times since.

Like..."The World Ends With You" and "Kingdom Hearts II." I'd say those were more...generic than anything else off the top of my head.

Bruce Timm's art has gotten worse imo, over the years it's gotten more and more simplified, and he heavily suffers from sameface disorder. I like his work but I'm not gonna lie.

I'd say thats more a consequence at the speed the studios wanted the illustrations and storyboard information than anything. Cartoons have gotten lazy across the board due to time constraints, budget cuts, and the overreliance on CGI and cell shading. I don't think Bruce Timm's art has gotten worst. I think they TOLD him to do that. Bruce Timm doing his best is fucking awesome.

He's back to making pron again btw.

Link pl0x.

Eh, I think if Nomura tried something new, experimented with a few things people would be satisfied.

Well maybe he can fit that in inbetween his 10840239823 fucking projects.

 

[Masamune]

I'd be well up for a new character designer or two. Am I the only one who thought FFXII was not only uplifting in its change of mood but it's aesthetic as well? Akihiko Yoshida has a very classic, intricate style to his designs. I think if you want Final Fantasy to be a diverse series of games, then you need more character designers.

It would give Nomura a break, and provide him with more time to concentrate on the writing/directing side of the business.

Also, when did Zack have a haircut?
http://www.creativeuncut.com/gallery-01/pe2-kyle.html

 

[Max Payne]

[quote author=Makoeyes987 link=topic=633.msg27983#msg27983 date=1236378065]

I really don't think the FFXIII characters are that derivative though. They aren't as "bad" as Nomura can be. People claim this is "generic Nomura" but I hardly think that's the truth. They do fit the style of FFXIII's unique techno-fantasy future along with their stylized clothes. It's not a world that's been seen since maybe FFVIII[/quote]

The only FFXIII characters that look truly awful to me aren't even designed by him. I mean, look at that chicken headed atrocity.

I'd say thats more a consequence at the speed the studios wanted the illustrations and storyboard information than anything. Cartoons have gotten lazy across the board due to time constraints, budget cuts, and the overreliance on CGI and cell shading.

I'm not talking about animation, even then, the animation has gotten pretty shitty looking too. I'm talking about Timm's art, in comics, sketches, and whatnot. But American animation is looking up with Spectacular Spider-Man, Hulk Vs, Wonder Woman, and all of the other animated projects in works at Marvel and DC.

I don't think Bruce Timm's art has gotten worst. I think they TOLD him to do that. Bruce Timm doing his best is fucking awesome.

They didn't tell him to make all his characters look exactly alike with costume/hair shifts in his art.

He's back to making pron again btw.

Link pl0x.

no

Well maybe he can fit that in inbetween his 10840239823 fucking projects.

A lot of artists do, no reason he can't.

 

[Arianna]

[quote author=Masamune link=topic=633.msg27987#msg27987 date=1236378433] I think if you want Final Fantasy to be a diverse series of games, then you need more character designers. ... Also, when did Zack have a haircut?
http://www.creativeuncut.com/gallery-01/pe2-kyle.html
[/quote]

That picture does look exactly like Zack with shorter hair! What the -!!! ??? And breasts - sorry, but that guy looks like he's got female breasts... :o :-\

How many character designers does SE have? If that's knowledge anyone knows...? I agree - they should invest in more character designers - I mean, top dog character designers.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Nomura had a break between FFX and now. I mean three installments have been Nomura-less. Yoshida has a very nice style, I agree. But I bet if he kept doing FFs for awhile people would complain about *his* style being too similar and thus the cycle would repeat again. His style *is* very recognizable if you look back to Tactics Ogre, Vagrant Story, and then Final Fantasy XII.

And I see a Zack resemblence but only in the smile and eyes. He has a smile like Ehrgeiz Zack. But he looks very normal and handsome. Nothing too over the top or stylized like an FF character. He looks like he could be Zack's...older more mundane brother. But I don't think the resemblance is as significant as say Toriyama's Blue Dragon designs and then Dragonball.

@Dacon

I dunno, I don't really see a decline in Timm's art. I can see how some do resemble themselves though. That would be his weakness. But overall I think he does have a great style.

If Nomura does change in style, I'd say it'd be after FFXIII. This is probably one of his biggest projects to date, and I think he even said he'd be happy taking a break from directing AND designing due to this.

Also, you suck for not linking. >O

 

[Max Payne]

[quote author=Makoeyes987 link=topic=633.msg28000#msg28000 date=1236379251]



I dunno, I don't really see a decline in Timm's art. I can see how some do resemble themselves though. That would be his weakness. But overall I think he does have a great style.
[/quote]

Well I've been following his work for years now, and his old works use to be a lot more detailed imo. Over the years it's just gotten more and more simplified.

It's really hard to see any difference in characters past costumes and hair.

If Nomura does change in style, I'd say it'd be after FFXIII. This is probably one of his biggest projects to date, and I think he even said he'd be happy taking a break from directing AND designing due to this.

It's not his art style that needs to change, it's his designs.

Also, you suck for not linking. >O

I'm not your porn source ngr.

 

[Masamune]

Nomura had a break between FFX and now. I mean three installments have been Nomura-less. Yoshida has a very nice style, I agree. But I bet if he kept doing FFs for awhile people would complain about *his* style being too similar and thus the cycle would repeat again. His style *is* very recognizable if you look back to Tactics Ogre, Vagrant Story, and then Final Fantasy XII

Isn't that a little unfair considering VS, Tactics, XII all take part in the same world? I think it would be nice to use different designers on a regular basis, and not stick with the same ones the majority of the time. Familiarity oft breeds contempt.

He did strike me as Zackish when I first saw him. He has the same cheeky facial expression, but I think the SOLDIER outfit swings it. It's all fun and games though.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Well Tactics Ogre doesn't take place in Ivalice. But I see your point. But then I could bring up FFIII for the DS. Luneth, Arc, and the others look like they could definitely fit right in, in Arcades or Rozarria. I'm being critical because I want to show that yeah, he's good however it'd end up happening to him too. And sadly I think you're right. But then of course it goes to the whole "unpleaseable fanbase" trope and...

Different designers would be nice. But FF has never really had many different designers. For the first 6 it was Amano. Then Nomura for VII and VIII and X. FFIX had Toshiyuki Itahana.
Nobuyoshi Mihara and Tamae Kisanuki were for FFXI and then we have Yoshida for FFXII. So now, Final Fantasy *is* just now trying to have new people do their installments but its taking awhile.

I wonder if that sweater that guy is wearing was a purposeful nod to Zack? It just seems too deliberate to be coincidence. I think Nomura is quite aware of that one.

 

[Strangelove]

[quote author=Tetsujin link=topic=633.msg27973#msg27973 date=1236377486]
Nomura needs more direction, someone who tells him, "do it more like (blah)" "I want something along the lines of (etc)" or sth like that.
[/quote]
That's how we ended up with Shalua

I love Yoshida's designs. He should get more work. Is he even doing anything lately?

 

[ForceStealer]

I imagine he'll work on whatever the next Ivalice Alliance project will be.

And I always thought Amano designed the characters for IX. I never really looked into it, but i guess I had always assumed considering the whole old school aesthetic with a lot of people in their original roles.

Mako also raises a pretty good point, Amano did 6 in a ROW. Nomura's only done 3 (soon to be 4) games since and they weren't even all in a row. We're used to Nomura due to the Compilation and Kingdom Hearts, but I don't think they've been overusing him in the series proper. The only thing about him that really gets to me is this zipper/buckle fetish. And even that seems to be a fairly recent thing, FFs 7, 8, and 10 don't seem to have so much of them.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Naw, Toshiyuki Itahana did FFIX. And he's the character designer for all the Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicle games.

...I'm sure you see how it all makes sense now.

FFIX and Crystal Chronicles share more than a passing resemblance in terms of character designs. Hell, the original Crystal Chronicles had the same fucking monsters from FFIX too.

The zipper and belts thing is only really apparent in Kingdom Hearts to be honest. Not so much in the original FF series. I'm not seeing a plethora of either in FFXIII or FFXIII Versus.

 

[Max Payne]

I don't care what you say about Noruma, he's never done anything as godawfull as this shit. LOOK AT THAT FUCKING HAIR.

Also, someone should have told that chick to take a piss BEFORE the fight.

 

[Tetsujin]

*lmao*

I love you, dude.

 

[ForceStealer]

[quote author=Makoeyes987 link=topic=633.msg28048#msg28048 date=1236394258]The zipper and belts thing is only really apparent in Kingdom Hearts to be honest.[/quote]

1 word: Lulu

Don't misunderstand, I do actually like Lulu's design, just saying. AC Cloud's got a lot too, but at least most of those appear to serve a purpose: his sheath and holding on that half-trench-coat/cape--thing.

So who designed crazy FFXIII hair guy?

 

[Max Payne]

Someone named "Ms. Ikeda" according to a Dengeki interview. She designed all of Team Nora with the exception of Snow.

They're "sub characters".

 

[Masamune]

Nao Ikeda? She's designed subcharacters for some of the Mana series, as well as FFXII.