Permissions on Xenforo

[Lex]

Hi folks,

Given the chat between me and X in the other thread, I thought I'd make a thread to discuss user permissions on Xenforo.

By default, there is a time limit set on post edits. We can turn this off and/ or extend the time limit. I think a case can be made for both, or customising permissions per usergroup (so for example a person with X number of posts will have the edit time limit removed). There's also the option of making it some sort of patreon/ donator perk. Note that this doesn't affect a person's ability to delete their own posts, which is considered a separate permission.

The point has been made that mods/ admin can access post history so edit permissions shouldn't matter, but there is an option on this board to "silently edit" (i.e. does not leave a timestamp or "edited" message when some users edit, which I believe some usergroups have). The bigger point to me is that if someone goes back and edits a post, the general userbase doesn't know what's been edited. We've had this in the past on the old board where someone has caused trouble, went back and edited their post to make everyone else look irrational and then got banned or whatever (I won't mention names because NEW BOARD NEW LAIFU). In at least one case I can remember an Admin went back and reinstated all the posts as they originally appeared, but the time limit would reduce the chance of something like this happening.

There are a shitload of permissions and I think we should all have a discussion about how we feel about x y and z having x y and z permissions here, because we have a lot more customisability to play around with. I don't want anyone to feel like they've had the wool pulled over their eyes - the edit time limit was enabled by default and I didn't think anything of it until it was just brought up as potentially an issue. Note that users should still have permission to edit their own opening posts in threads even with the time limit enabled, but I'll need to double check that.

I mean, it goes beyond the time limit edit thing but there's a lot to talk about. I know permissions can seem like a scary topic but I'd like to get everyone's feedback on what's what, I documented everything I did when I set the permissions for each usergroup and section on the #forums chat on Discord, but I went uber fast so there's a possibility I've forgotten/ overlooked something (I think I spent a grand total of 14 hours clicking around setting shit up on Saturday, my brain was frazzled by the end of it).

Please get involved and share your opinion

EDIT: For full transparency I should say I knew about this time limit when we were testing Xen at first, I have mentioned it publicly but idk if it was on Discord or the board, and I shouldn't have assumed it wouldn't be an issue. But we're still feeling this thing out so I hope nobody holds it against me, like I said it's an easy thing to turn off, I just think we should discuss the benefits/ drawbacks of using the new tools we have before we make a final decision.

 

[Strangelove]

is it possible to extend/remove the time limit and also the silent edit feature?

 

[Lex]

The minutes can be set to whatever we want, so we could make it like a day or something. The silent edit feature can't be removed AFAIK, but it's possible this is an admin only permission. There's no option for it in the permissions I can see.

EDIT: Even with silent edit the full post history is visible to mods and admin, I'm checking on the Xen support forums for info now. It's a feature people have specifically asked for (the ability to customise it per usergroup and/or remove it) and it's not possible without custom code and we should avoid that where possible.

 

[CrashOuch]

I think it might be useful to have a little bit longer to edit in at least? Just because normally if I've forgotten or like spelt something hideously wrong I don't notice as quick as that. I don't know about in terms of like usergroup perks or whatever though. Probably it makes sense to have the real newbies nit be able to as much, if anyone?

 

[Lex]

For the time being I've edited the usergroups to 24 hours until a consensus is reached.

 

[Mage]

I think twenty-four hours is ample for editing genuine mistakes or making clarification. You can always quote your own post and explain further if you feel the need to.
People on Twitter bitch about not having an edit facility but can you imagine how much backpedalling Trump would be getting away with if he could? Anyway, having been on the receiving end of shitposting that was later edited (admittedly a long time ago and by someone who isn't on here any more), I'm all in favour of making people stand by their statements.

 

[Flare]

I can understand what people are saying about wanting a time limit on editing one's posts; there's some merits to that.

However I also think there's plenty of reasons to not have a time limit at all; my first thought when I read this was how people can edit the OP of a thread to update it (I believe X mentioned that in the other thread this conversation started in) and I find that really useful for projects and the like. I was doing that myself for the TLS Spotlight main thread (that's not an important project, but the ability to do so makes things quite easy to find and it just looks nice).
I suppose most casual edits would fall under a 24 hour time period (typos or having an additional thought to add). I think in my case I've only edited to take something away a couple times in old political posts that I made emotionally and then an hour later went back and tidied it up, feeling blah about it. Whether people think that's "okay" is probably subjective; I'm a fan of letting people have that freedom, though.

I feel like the occasions of people making shitposting posts/threads/rants and then wiping them away completely happens very rarely. In my time here I can only recall that happening once? Not often enough to be worried about it, imo. And if admins can still read it then I'm not really concerned even if it did happen, because you guys would let us know.

Anyhow just my thoughts on it atm. I'd prefer to remove an edit time limit altogether and instead just have it where newcomers can't edit their posts until they make 10 posts or something.

 

[Lex]

my first thought when I read this was how people can edit the OP of a thread to update it (I believe X mentioned that in the other thread this conversation started in) and I find that really useful for projects and the like. I was doing that myself for the TLS Spotlight main thread (that's not an important project, but the ability to do so makes things quite easy to find and it just looks nice).

That is an important project, but you should still be able to edit the posts in threads created by you (indefinitely). If you can't, it'll be a permissions thing and I'll look into it.

 

[ForceStealer]

Personally, I think as long as mods and admins have access to the change history, I'm not fussed about there being no time limit. Though waiting for a certain number of posts makes sense to me. Assuming I know which incident you're talking about, it's also the only one I can think of, and as you say they could still delete posts.

But as long as you're right about being able to edit your own thread topic indefinitely (which also seems no less risky than just being able to edit anything), I guess a day is reasonable for regular posts.

 

[Fangu]

idk just someone's misused something in the past and there's a small chance of it happening, that still isn't valid reason enough to refuse members to edit their own posts should they wish to. Having to go through an admin or a mod to edit something you regret posting takes away autonomy. If admins and mods still have access to the change log, then there really isn't any reason to take away user rights imo.

 

[Lex]

This might end up being a poll vote thing but we'll wait until more people weigh in. I see all sides of what people are saying though, I know "removal of freedoms" is flashing up in people's eyeballs at the moment and while I can see that perspective, it's not the case. People would still have the ability to delete their own posts for example.

 

[Geostigma]

I think considering the fact TLS is about to be 10 years old and we can count on one hand the amount of people who abused editing means things should be fine. Especially when staff can still see what they originally said and restore stuff as necessary.

If the worry about people actually doing that in a malicious way is great enough why not just make a rule saying if you do that you catch a ban no questions asked for x amount of time or something? I kinda feel like we shouldn't remove a toy because a person is a bad apple, we just remove the bad apple lol.


Either way it's kind of a no big deal for me in either direction.

 

[looneymoon]

Is the threat of trolling on a FF7 internet forum from the mid-2000s that much of a concern?

...ugh now I am contemplating creative ways to edit my posts that would make people admit they have small cocks.

Thanks for planting the seed, Lex

 

[Lex]

Is the threat of trolling on a FF7 internet forum from the mid-2000s that much of a concern?

...ugh now I am contemplating creative ways to edit my posts that would make people admit they have small cocks.

Thanks for planting the seed, Lex

I'm watching you

 

[Lex]

OK so I'm seeing a majority against the limit in here - I'm happy to remove it for now but I'll wait for Yop etc. to weigh in, I don't want people feeling like they're not trusted. But please continue the discussion <3

 

[Fangu]

I see all sides of what people are saying though, I know "removal of freedoms" is flashing up in people's eyeballs at the moment and while I can see that perspective, it's not the case. People would still have the ability to delete their own posts for example.

But deleting is not the same as editing.

To me it's this simple: Something I could do before the move I can no longer do

(I edited out the next part because we kind of did the "poll" already in this thread. To anyone looking at what I edited, lol.)

 

[Lex]

I've removed it for now.

But deleting is not the same as editing.

I get that, but is there a reason a person would want to edit a post say for argument's sake a week after they'd posted it other than to just delete it? (Not counting the OP's of threads they'd posted).

 

[ForceStealer]

I mean, I have noticed embarrassing typos a long time after and fixed those, which is nice so a wrong their/there/they're isn't immortalized for all to laugh at. But I acknowledge the inability to do that isn't a consequential infringement on my freedom and that I could just proofread

 

[Mage]

Actually just thought of a couple of instances - people removing their photos after X amount of time from the picture threads, or spoiler tagging a rant so they can delete it later. Those OFC aren't a problem. TBH since only mods can see edits, any use of post editing for underhand reasons is going to be something that needs moderator attention anyway.