Makoeyes987
Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
- AKA
- Smooth Criminal
Project S and Genesis
- Thread starter Aya
- Start date
Cat Rage Room
Great Old One
- AKA
- Mog
Ah. My bad, Mako.
As an aside to LicoriceAllSorts, I have to respect the fact that you, unlike a LOT of people, accept that the Ultimania is canon, but you still disagree with it. Even though we're on two different sides of the fence in this debate, I give you credit for going "Yeah, I admit this is canon, but that doesn't mean I have to like it, and here's why", instead of the alternative; "This isn't canon because I don't like it."
As an aside to LicoriceAllSorts, I have to respect the fact that you, unlike a LOT of people, accept that the Ultimania is canon, but you still disagree with it. Even though we're on two different sides of the fence in this debate, I give you credit for going "Yeah, I admit this is canon, but that doesn't mean I have to like it, and here's why", instead of the alternative; "This isn't canon because I don't like it."
LicoriceAllsorts
Donator
Ultimania
Yes, well, writing prequels is always difficult. Like I said, their hands are tied. Also, you can't always expect anything which is created by a committee (or team) to be completely consistent and coherent. SE also like to respond to what they perceive as their fans' wishes, I think - hence the Turks being turned into good(ish) guys in BC. I have no problem with anyone who wants to think that Zack and Cloud were each other's best friend, and I have no problem with accepting that this was SE's intention. But I still say that they failed to convey this 'best friend' relationship very effectively in Crisis Core. To say that a large company occassionally makes mistakes in their game design is surely not a very earth-shattering observation and does not detract from overall greatness of the compilation. Even Shakespeare wrote some duff lines and some poor characterisation.
Yes, well, writing prequels is always difficult. Like I said, their hands are tied. Also, you can't always expect anything which is created by a committee (or team) to be completely consistent and coherent. SE also like to respond to what they perceive as their fans' wishes, I think - hence the Turks being turned into good(ish) guys in BC. I have no problem with anyone who wants to think that Zack and Cloud were each other's best friend, and I have no problem with accepting that this was SE's intention. But I still say that they failed to convey this 'best friend' relationship very effectively in Crisis Core. To say that a large company occassionally makes mistakes in their game design is surely not a very earth-shattering observation and does not detract from overall greatness of the compilation. Even Shakespeare wrote some duff lines and some poor characterisation.
Makoeyes987
Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
- AKA
- Smooth Criminal
I'm just not sure what you'd expect to be a good sign of a close friendship, since it seems that's what they had to me. 
Oh well, I guess it just comes down to a matter of perspective and interpretation then.
Oh well, I guess it just comes down to a matter of perspective and interpretation then.
Cat Rage Room
Great Old One
- AKA
- Mog
While I agree with Mako, I also agree that there's always ways to do it BETTER. Perhaps having more non DMW parts of the game where Zack hangs out with Cloud (similar to the gameplay segment of the day he spent with Aerith), or showing more missions that Zack accompanied Cloud on would better portray their status as close friends and war buddies.
LicoriceAllsorts
Donator
Zack and Cloud cont
What would I expect? Well, someting that shows Zack is closer to Cloud than anyone else. Zack has a lot of friends. Cloud is one of them. But if they are going to be best friends, I would expect Zack and Cloud to be a little more open with each other. In every DMW cut scene I've seen, they tend to brush each other off or shut down conversations. Given the extent to which Cloud takes on Zack's personality in FFVII, you'd think they'd talk more, that's all. But the space for dialogue in a game is very limited, so it's difficult for the developers to work it in. I did like the scene where Cloud shot the griffin - showed the friendship wasn't all one way.
I want to apologise to the person who started this thread that I seem to have taken it so far away from the topic of Genesis. (I"ve just had a long argument with my son on what colour Genesis' coat is - it's obviously pink, but he insists it is red.) Anywho, Genesis is a very annoying self-centred pseudo-intellectual whose posturings irritate Zack (and me) no end. I loved it when Genesis says to Zack, "Do you remember the line from Loveless in Act Four..." and Zack exclaims, "Of course I don't!". That said, Genesis as a character fulfils his role in the plot very nicely. And, like all the 'monsters', he is as much sinned against as sinning. Re. my discussion about Zack and friendships, he clearly dislikes Genesis, yet does everything he can to rescue him.
What would I expect? Well, someting that shows Zack is closer to Cloud than anyone else. Zack has a lot of friends. Cloud is one of them. But if they are going to be best friends, I would expect Zack and Cloud to be a little more open with each other. In every DMW cut scene I've seen, they tend to brush each other off or shut down conversations. Given the extent to which Cloud takes on Zack's personality in FFVII, you'd think they'd talk more, that's all. But the space for dialogue in a game is very limited, so it's difficult for the developers to work it in. I did like the scene where Cloud shot the griffin - showed the friendship wasn't all one way.
I want to apologise to the person who started this thread that I seem to have taken it so far away from the topic of Genesis. (I"ve just had a long argument with my son on what colour Genesis' coat is - it's obviously pink, but he insists it is red.) Anywho, Genesis is a very annoying self-centred pseudo-intellectual whose posturings irritate Zack (and me) no end. I loved it when Genesis says to Zack, "Do you remember the line from Loveless in Act Four..." and Zack exclaims, "Of course I don't!". That said, Genesis as a character fulfils his role in the plot very nicely. And, like all the 'monsters', he is as much sinned against as sinning. Re. my discussion about Zack and friendships, he clearly dislikes Genesis, yet does everything he can to rescue him.
Ravynne Nevyrmore
that one Lucrecia fangirl
- AKA
- Ravynne
For me it's when Zack makes a post and then Cloud disputes him aggressively, they cuss each other out and one calls the other a nigger. They go back and forth publically for about a page or so making personal insults until one jumps on the other and humps him violently, then they go back to one of their rooms for marathon buttsex and, as I like to imagine, some amount of ear biting.Mako said:I'm just not sure what you'd expect to be a good sign of a close friendship, since it seems that's what they had to me.
But I dunno, maybe TLS has tempered my views on friendship.
Lord Noctis
Harbinger of Darkness
- AKA
- Caius Ballad
For me it's when Zack makes a post and then Cloud disputes him aggressively, they cuss each other out and one calls the other a nigger. They go back and forth publically for about a page or so making personal insults until one jumps on the other and humps him violently, then they go back to one of their rooms for marathon buttsex and, as I like to imagine, some amount of ear biting.
But I dunno, maybe TLS has tempered my views on friendship.
This sounds eerily familiar.
