jazzflower92
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- The Girl With A Strong Opinion
I have to say they should never had created Genesis and just focused on the character of Angeal. He has more potential as a tragic character than Genesis ever did.
Question about Genesis and Tifa
- Thread starter demonwolf
- Start date
Roger
He/him
- AKA
- Minato
i always left that Sephiroth, Zack and Cloud seemed like main character material personally.
The Twilight Mexican
Ex-SeeD-ingly good
- AKA
- TresDias
One really has to wonder what the plan was for Genesis. For whatever reason, they wanted him brought in alive rather than executed, and lost a golden opportunity when he was left unconscious in Banora.
Roger
He/him
- AKA
- Minato
I can quite see how Shinra might want to capitalise on Genesis having been left defeated but alive by Zack and bring him to Deepground, put a chip on him and get him back under control. And then Weiss and Nero then woke him up before they had a chance to to ask him to join their revolution which Genesis declined. The next step where Shinra Inc is convinced the Genesis matter is over and settled is a mystery to me.
I like the idea that he's woken up before a chip can be planted.
They might not have thought the the matter is settled, though. Assuming Genesis already went into hibernation, they prolly couldn't find him and decided to move on with other things while still keeping him in mind. And as suggested before, they might not have had a lot of time between Genesis's sleep and Sephiroth's return.
Some hints of their search for Genesis might have been in the OG had he had, yknow, existed at all by the time they were making FF7.
LicoriceAllsorts
Donator
Do "they" actually have these control chips of which you speak?
Do those poor sods in Deepground have Jenova DNA in them too, or have they been superpowered in some other way?
Maybe "they" determined Genesis was in an irreversible coma and decided to leave him to rot?
Do those poor sods in Deepground have Jenova DNA in them too, or have they been superpowered in some other way?
Maybe "they" determined Genesis was in an irreversible coma and decided to leave him to rot?
Well I'm not exactly expert in DoC knowledge either (what am i saying I'm not expert in anything) but I thought some form of theoretical 'absolute' control is the basis for the Restrictors. And I just kinda went along with the chip thing since it was mentioned somewhere earlier in this thread.
I think I read somewhere (yes again with this source amnesia crap from me
) that Tsviets are spliced with Genesis's DNA? And Genesis is like...less part-Jenova than Sephiroth is.
I think I read somewhere (yes again with this source amnesia crap from me
) that Tsviets are spliced with Genesis's DNA? And Genesis is like...less part-Jenova than Sephiroth is.I thought this was also a possiblity. But then everyone started discussing in terms that he 'refused' the offer to join the Deepground coup, so I thought whether he was awake or not was never a debate.
LicoriceAllsorts
Donator
OK - bearing in my mind that I know nothing about DoC timeline.... How can the Tseviets be sent out to hunt Genesis if they are made from his DNA? If they are made from his DNA it stands to reason that the people who made them must have had Genesis in order to extract the DNA. So were they made before he went AWOL at the beginning of Crisis Core or were they made after he was recaptured at the end? Because if it was the latter, then they couldn't have been sent to hunt him down because they didn't yet exist, and if it was the former...
Well I am just mystified how anyone at Shinra could have thought it was a good idea to create a hidden army of supersoldiers from the DNA of a degrading renegrade. Not even Hojo would have done that. It's so many degrees of stupid I can't even
Well I am just mystified how anyone at Shinra could have thought it was a good idea to create a hidden army of supersoldiers from the DNA of a degrading renegrade. Not even Hojo would have done that. It's so many degrees of stupid I can't even
I still need somebody to fact check me on the Genesis/Jenova DNA thing so I can't argue against how stupid it is, haha, only for.
.
.
.
I stop to wonder why I try to make sense of something even though I don't really get anything out of it once it's made sense of. Meanwhile, the corporate that churned out this confusing something already made millions from it.
.
.
.
BTT, I think the Tsviet is already there before Genesis went rogue. So if they're really spliced with his DNA then it was because ShinRa never knew he was gon be defective.
.
.
.
I stop to wonder why I try to make sense of something even though I don't really get anything out of it once it's made sense of. Meanwhile, the corporate that churned out this confusing something already made millions from it.
.
.
.
BTT, I think the Tsviet is already there before Genesis went rogue. So if they're really spliced with his DNA then it was because ShinRa never knew he was gon be defective.
Obsidian Fire
Ahk Morn!
- AKA
- The Engineer
It's a bit inaccurate to say the Genesis is less part-Jenova then Sephiroth is. Most of that is based whatever inaccurate ideas Shinra had about what Jenova actually was all the way back before they even knew she wasn't a Cetra. All that basically means is that when Genesis was born, Shinra didn't think he had whatever they were looking for, so they gave him up to be adopted. Sephiroth, however did, so they kept him as an experiment. Genesis, Angeal and Sephiroth all have different Jenova-traits, it's just that Sephiroth's were the ones that were found out about first.
What can be said is that the way Jenova-cells were introduced to Genesis were different then the way they were introduced to Sephiroth, so that's probably where at least some of the difference comes from.
As for how the different ways they got them... Sephiroth's J-cells come from those Lucrecia was given before/during the time she was pregnant with him. Angeal's come from the cells Gillian had (after everyone in Shinra thought Gillian's experiment was a failure). Genesis had Gilllian's genes spliced into his while he was in a test-tube. He's arguably the one with the most "proactive" use of Jenova's copying abilities though. He's also the one who's DNA breaks down the fastest, which is the main thing he gets "healed" from by the goddess.
The relationship the Tsviets and Genesis have is really murky. Sometime after Genesis was born, someone in Shinra realized his cells did have something going on with them and spliced his DNA into that of the Tsviets. So the Tsviets themselves have never been exposed to Jenova cells (that's what the whole "pure" thing is about). They just have some very mutated human DNA added to them.
As for why DG wants Genesis... there's a big difference between having the DNA of something vs haveing the acutal thing. Also, Genesis just got the one big flaw in his DNA (the degradation) fixed. So I could see someone wanting to see what the differences are.
What can be said is that the way Jenova-cells were introduced to Genesis were different then the way they were introduced to Sephiroth, so that's probably where at least some of the difference comes from.
As for how the different ways they got them... Sephiroth's J-cells come from those Lucrecia was given before/during the time she was pregnant with him. Angeal's come from the cells Gillian had (after everyone in Shinra thought Gillian's experiment was a failure). Genesis had Gilllian's genes spliced into his while he was in a test-tube. He's arguably the one with the most "proactive" use of Jenova's copying abilities though. He's also the one who's DNA breaks down the fastest, which is the main thing he gets "healed" from by the goddess.
The relationship the Tsviets and Genesis have is really murky. Sometime after Genesis was born, someone in Shinra realized his cells did have something going on with them and spliced his DNA into that of the Tsviets. So the Tsviets themselves have never been exposed to Jenova cells (that's what the whole "pure" thing is about). They just have some very mutated human DNA added to them.
As for why DG wants Genesis... there's a big difference between having the DNA of something vs haveing the acutal thing. Also, Genesis just got the one big flaw in his DNA (the degradation) fixed. So I could see someone wanting to see what the differences are.
Roger
He/him
- AKA
- Minato
Tsviets are Deepground's best SOLDIERS, but they didn't know this was the case the day these individuals arrived/were born, and SOLDIERs are still implanted with Jenova cells when they become SOLDIERs. Deepground existed before they created Sephiroth and found out Jenova cells made supersoldiers but nothing says they entirely neglected to take up the practice afterwards.
Weiss is the pure one, Rosso as a young girl was spliced with Genesis' genes in the experiment where they came to the conclusion that his genetic make-up merit but Nero, Azul and Shelke I assume have both.
Weiss is the pure one, Rosso as a young girl was spliced with Genesis' genes in the experiment where they came to the conclusion that his genetic make-up merit but Nero, Azul and Shelke I assume have both.
Tashasaurous
Tash for Short
- AKA
- Sailor Moon, Mini Moon, Hotaru, Cardcaptor Sakura, Meilin, Xion, Kairi, Aqua, Tifa, Aerith, Yuffie, Elena, Misty, May, Dawn, Casey, Fiona, Ellie
Azul was taken in by the Turks, as shown in Before Crisis where he was a little less behamoth-like, but still huge.
LicoriceAllsorts
Donator
Azul was taken by the Turks after Genesis defected. By this point Hojo knew Genesis was degrading. Why would they inject the DNA of a degrading specimen into subjects they wanted to cultivate into supersoldiers?
I'm not saying that any of this isn't canon, just that the timeline makes zero sense.
I'm not saying that any of this isn't canon, just that the timeline makes zero sense.
Tashasaurous
Tash for Short
- AKA
- Sailor Moon, Mini Moon, Hotaru, Cardcaptor Sakura, Meilin, Xion, Kairi, Aqua, Tifa, Aerith, Yuffie, Elena, Misty, May, Dawn, Casey, Fiona, Ellie
I know that, especially since Before Crisis began one year after the beginning of Crisis Core.
Kieron_ODuibhir
Sinister Amanuensis
- AKA
- TrisakAminawn
Actually, taking Genesis back alive to figure out how he wasn't dying seems plausible, yeah! And I did sort of assume the Tsviets let him get away and Shinra never really got the chance to follow up on it; makes as much sense as anything about Deep Ground. He was less of a threat the fewer SOLDIERs there were for him to transform into his minions anymore, anyway.
Why he spent two apocalypses napping in a hamster ball if he's all redeemed and ready to fight the good fight is unlikely to have a good explanation, but can probably be filed under 'self-centered ass.'
I've tended to assume the reason Minerva gives a damn about Genesis is whoever his biological parents were, one was part-Cetra. A lot less than Aerith, but still enough to be more useful than most humans, plus he's pious, in a weird, self-involved melodramatic way. And he's got superpowers.
The Planet isn't a particularly moral or strategically complex entity, I mean. It created Kaiju to solve its alien problem, and then when they were eventually unleashed they mostly just targeted human settlements, or did nothing whatever. It did not have clear instructions for Aerith or her ancestors. (Personally I suspect Genesis' Goddess of being the moon, which is for some reason somewhat more intelligent than the Planet, but either way.) Cloud's power is largely Jenova-based and it doesn't have a problem with him as a hero. The Planet would not care that Genesis was part-alien or that he was a major douchelord, if he was the right tool for the job.
Except being imbued with Jenova cells probably meant he was useless for Cetra purposes, and was also killing him because the Cetra and Jenova DNA elements were in conflict. So she fixed him. Somehow.
Angeal had the same DNA-based transformation and memetic-transfer Jenova abilities as Genesis, but they weren't noticeably killing him. He wasn't greying out or displaying problems healing. He was fine. It could be this was because he got the genes in a different, more direct way, and Hollander just royally fucked up the transfer process? But I like the Cetra theory.
Why he spent two apocalypses napping in a hamster ball if he's all redeemed and ready to fight the good fight is unlikely to have a good explanation, but can probably be filed under 'self-centered ass.'
I've tended to assume the reason Minerva gives a damn about Genesis is whoever his biological parents were, one was part-Cetra. A lot less than Aerith, but still enough to be more useful than most humans, plus he's pious, in a weird, self-involved melodramatic way. And he's got superpowers.
The Planet isn't a particularly moral or strategically complex entity, I mean. It created Kaiju to solve its alien problem, and then when they were eventually unleashed they mostly just targeted human settlements, or did nothing whatever. It did not have clear instructions for Aerith or her ancestors. (Personally I suspect Genesis' Goddess of being the moon, which is for some reason somewhat more intelligent than the Planet, but either way.) Cloud's power is largely Jenova-based and it doesn't have a problem with him as a hero. The Planet would not care that Genesis was part-alien or that he was a major douchelord, if he was the right tool for the job.
Except being imbued with Jenova cells probably meant he was useless for Cetra purposes, and was also killing him because the Cetra and Jenova DNA elements were in conflict. So she fixed him. Somehow.
Angeal had the same DNA-based transformation and memetic-transfer Jenova abilities as Genesis, but they weren't noticeably killing him. He wasn't greying out or displaying problems healing. He was fine. It could be this was because he got the genes in a different, more direct way, and Hollander just royally fucked up the transfer process? But I like the Cetra theory.
The Twilight Mexican
Ex-SeeD-ingly good
- AKA
- TresDias
Clarification on a couple things --
Restriction chips: Everyone in Deepground (the Tsviets included) has a chip implanted in their brain stem that allows the Restrictors to immobilize them. That's probably why they are called "Restrictors" to begin with. The Tsviet's rebellion involved utilizing a subject whom they made sure (via hacking Deepground's main computer system) was not subject to the immobilization.
Genesis & the Tsviets: They don't have his DNA (i.e. his actual biological material). Rather, his genes had been mapped after he was born, and his traits were transferred to the Tsviets via genetic modification. In other words, the makeup of their cells was altered to look like his, presumably as a catalyst of sorts to make their bodies more capable of integrating with the various foreign substances added to their bodies (e.g. stagnant mako for Nero, pure mako for Weiss, behemoth DNA for Azul, etc.).
This distinction -- having Genesis's DNA vs. their own cells being altered to resemble his -- is an important one, becuase that's the difference between them having Jenova's cellular material and not. In Weiss's case, he would have been unable to be a host to Omega had he contained the contamination of Jenova.
For quite a few years, this matter was extremely confusing to me as well. It's easy to misunderstand.
The gene mapping began shortly after Genesis was born rather than when he was an adult. Of course, that just raises the question of why they mapped his traits when they thought he was a failed experiment. =P
I would hesitate to assume he's either redeemed or ready to fight any good fights. As you go on to point out later in your post, the planet's self-defense system (the Weapons) mostly just attacked humans. Genesis seemingly became one of the Weapons during his fight with Zack (as Genesis Avatar), and then reawakened years later following the destruction of another Weapon (Omega).
It's not necessarily a good thing that he's awake if the planet woke him up. Jade Weapon awakened to try killing the Turks when they destroyed the summon Zirconiade since the planet saw the creature as a vital component of its ecology.
Omega is the planet's "last resort" mechanism; its "lifeboat." If the planet has woken something else up in response to that getting destroyed, it's probably Bad News Bears.
Restriction chips: Everyone in Deepground (the Tsviets included) has a chip implanted in their brain stem that allows the Restrictors to immobilize them. That's probably why they are called "Restrictors" to begin with. The Tsviet's rebellion involved utilizing a subject whom they made sure (via hacking Deepground's main computer system) was not subject to the immobilization.
Genesis & the Tsviets: They don't have his DNA (i.e. his actual biological material). Rather, his genes had been mapped after he was born, and his traits were transferred to the Tsviets via genetic modification. In other words, the makeup of their cells was altered to look like his, presumably as a catalyst of sorts to make their bodies more capable of integrating with the various foreign substances added to their bodies (e.g. stagnant mako for Nero, pure mako for Weiss, behemoth DNA for Azul, etc.).
This distinction -- having Genesis's DNA vs. their own cells being altered to resemble his -- is an important one, becuase that's the difference between them having Jenova's cellular material and not. In Weiss's case, he would have been unable to be a host to Omega had he contained the contamination of Jenova.
For quite a few years, this matter was extremely confusing to me as well. It's easy to misunderstand.
The gene mapping began shortly after Genesis was born rather than when he was an adult. Of course, that just raises the question of why they mapped his traits when they thought he was a failed experiment. =P
I would hesitate to assume he's either redeemed or ready to fight any good fights. As you go on to point out later in your post, the planet's self-defense system (the Weapons) mostly just attacked humans. Genesis seemingly became one of the Weapons during his fight with Zack (as Genesis Avatar), and then reawakened years later following the destruction of another Weapon (Omega).
It's not necessarily a good thing that he's awake if the planet woke him up. Jade Weapon awakened to try killing the Turks when they destroyed the summon Zirconiade since the planet saw the creature as a vital component of its ecology.
Omega is the planet's "last resort" mechanism; its "lifeboat." If the planet has woken something else up in response to that getting destroyed, it's probably Bad News Bears.
Last edited:
X-SOLDIER
Harbinger O Great Justice
- AKA
- X
While the end of it's all speculation, there's some stuff in my old analysis that might also point to the whole S vs. G and Jenova relationship that's probably worth looking over: https://thelifestream.net/lifestream-projects/analysis/6418/planet_jenova_genesis_fananalysis/3/
X
Clement Rage
Pro Adventurer
Re Genesis v Deepground, it doesn't have to be a duel. Zack can take Genesis in a straight fight by the endgame, but he can be ground down by enough ordinary infantry.
Maybe he was sealed in Deepground with the rest and could only get out after it was breached.
I believe it's just Weiss that has never been exposed to JENOVA? Hence 'The Immaculate'
Maybe he was sealed in Deepground with the rest and could only get out after it was breached.
I believe it's just Weiss that has never been exposed to JENOVA? Hence 'The Immaculate'