Questions left unanswered by AC/C

[Tetsujin]

Because after watching ACC it looked like it was contagious. And they all had physical contact in the places that they have it!

Denzel didn't touch anyone with his forehead to have contracted it there, though.

As said before, you must have J-cells within your body to contract it. Those aren't contagious, you need to be directly injected with them, which happened to loads of people during the Meteorfall, when the Lifestream spread them over the entire world.

Tifa etc were on the Highwind so they were safe.

It's my personal belief though, that all three were meant to unite with Jenova and become a complete, whole, Sephiroth.

That's what they were going for in AC originally, but they scrapped that idea because they thought it would be a bit silly.

10. "Which is it? A memory or us?"
Tifa is simply showing her jealous streak again. In its simplest terms she's asking "Are you going to have a relationship with me, or Aerith, who's dead?"

And that's exactly what she didn't mean.

 

[BOEG]

"And that's exactly what she didn't mean:

Que?

Seems like the only interpretation to me. And the line is spoken right after an Aerith scene.

 

[Tetsujin]

Cloud's not in love with Aerith. He's being all depressed because of how he couldn't protect Aerith back then and how Zack died protecting him etc.
Cloud is haunted by those memories. That's why she asks "a memory or us?"

She's basically telling him to stop dwelling in the past and get rid of his feelings of guilt etc. It has nothing to do with jealousy towards Aerith.

 

[megas_sephiroth]

Cloud's not in love with Aerith. He's being all depressed because of how he couldn't protect Aerith back then and how Zack died protecting him etc.
Cloud is haunted by those memories. That's why she asks "a memory or us?"

She's basically telling him to stop dwelling in the past and get rid of his feelings of guilt etc. It has nothing to do with jealousy towards Aerith.

I agree, I think she's just telling him to stop living in the past, blaming himself for something that wasn't even his fault to begin with, and start living the present with his "family".

It wouldn't be a good moment to show a jealous streak, what with the kids gone and all...

 

[BOEG]

Well, not to bring the TLD into this, but Cloud could be in love with Marlene for all we know without inferences. *is an avid TifaxCloud supporter, anyway*

But it's definitely a jealous streak, too. It's even hinted at in Case of Tifa. Tifa's constantly trying to hold her idea of a little family together and wondering if she's not good enough for Cloud because he keeps going back to the Sector 5 Church. She definitely has some resentment and feelings of inadequecy.

Nevermind the fact that everything both of us mentioned is easily lumped into "the past", anyway.

 

[holdthesun]

Well, not to bring the TLD into this, but Cloud could be in love with Marlene for all we know without inferences.

wtf Pedophilia much?

 

[Channy]

BOEG and Forcestealer, you both answered questions very muchly for me, thanks!

However I'm with BOEG on the Aerith thing. Considering that statement is sandwiched inbetween two Aerith confrontations. It's not so much that he's STILL in love with her, or that he cant let go, I just always thought that he didn't want to go back there because of what happened there. That's why he does all his flower planting in the church, etc.

Also Tet, Denzel rubbed a kid's Geo'd back and touched his forehead, didn't he? D=<

 

[BOEG]

Yeah, I'm not saying Tet is wrong, just that I believe Tifa's line is about something more specific than the past itself. Maybe "jealousy" without any explanation was a poor choice, but the line in context is most definitely connected to Aerith.

 

[Makoeyes987]

No he didn't Channy.

Geostigma isn't contagious by bodily fluids. Read the definition of Geostigma from the 10th Anniversary and the Case of Denzel novella. You get it from being exposed to contaminated lifestream or getting Jenova cells. The black ichor isn't what gives it to you.

 

[Restless]

In the RF, it doesn't say anything about Tifa confronting Cloud solely for Aerith. It only says that she confronts him about not letting go of the past; while this would include Aerith, it also pertains to everything that happened. Zack's death, every other person's death, the destruction, him letting people down. It's not to say Aerith wasn't important, just that there is more to what's bothering Cloud than just her.

 

[Ryushikaze]

I thought of putting this in the spoiler section, but the majority of these things occurred in AC anyway.


Is Kadaj the only Sephiroth?
During the confrontation scene with Rufus, we see Kadaj show his true colours in being a Sephiroth clone. And he was the one to dip into Jenova cells and become Sephiroth. But if Loz or Yazoo had gotten to them could they turn into Sephiroth too? Initially, they're all clones, right? So they each have an equal chance of being Seph, Kadaj just got to the cells first, right?

Yes. That is the case.

How do they know Marlene is with Tifa?
After the fight with Tifa, Loz speaks to Kadaj/Yazoo and says "All right, I'll bring the girl." But how do they know Marlene is there, much less who she is. And why do they need her? When she's at the scene at the Forgotten City, she just stands there. She has no Geostigma.

They do not know she is there. Presumably, they were just looking for a hostage, so Loz said 'I'll bring the girl' to let Kadaj he understood.

Why doesn't Tifa get Geostigma?
After Cloud runs to Tifa while she's fainted and he starts to have a relapse of the stigma, his arm starts doing the melty thing. It's clear that one gets the Stigma from direct contact, and he's leaning right over her. Granted his arm is supporting her, but it leaks from all around his arm. Why doesn't she get it?

Because you don't get Stigma from direct contact, though people do believe it is transmitted that way.

Kadaj is flaming.. is he gay?

He's made of Sephiroth. So yes.

At the Forgotten City, Kadaj starts bursting into flame when he's speaking to the children. Is this his limit break? Is that how he expels the black stuff into the water? Also, what IS the black stuff? The children already have Jenova cells in them from the stigma, so what's the black stuff they're drinking?

Kadaj/ Sephiroth's 'essence'. It's what allows the remnants to control the children.

Where do those kids come from?
After Cloud crashes, these kids come flying from all angles! Did the cells or the black stuff give them supah powers and they fly ala' Cloud style?

Yes. It and the Jenova cells are essentially a mini SOLDIER process. Who knows if it's permanent or not.

What Materia was affecting Loz/Yazoo?
When Cloud comes in on the crew, we see a glow of materia as Loz and Yazoo are shooting at him. It seems to be boosting their power/shooting. But what materia does that? o_O

4x-Cut, Slash-all, etc. It need not be a direct boost.

Which lake is it?
Are the lake that the kids drank at, and the lake where the phone drops the same connected lake? During different scenes we see large bodies of water that all seem to be connected to eachother. However when Cloud's phone drops into the lake, and we get an underwater view, it's very much a deep deep small circular lake that doesn't get much shallower. That's gotta be where Aerith was laid to rest... But ingame, Aerith is laid to rest in the front lake, which is where the kids were drinking the water. *confusion*

THEY ARE TAINTING HER RESTING PLACE!!!

The pool Cloud's phone falls into is not immediately near the shell house, which cannot be seen at any point during his battle with the remnants.
And yes, they are tainting her resting place.
And Aerith's dropping body is not 'literal', as it were. It's her spirit descending into the lifestream, essentially.

How familiar is Marlene with Vincent?
Marlene goes and runs behind Vincent's cloak, when Cloud's being a douche. But how familiar is she with him? We don't get him early on in the game, so she never has any direct interaction with him. And she lives in 7th Heaven with the others. I'm wondering if she even knows him! Why would she hide herself behind him?

Because he's a giant cute and cuddly teddy bear...
Also, it's possible she met him at some point during the later meteorfall events, or immediately thereafter before they all split up.

VincentxAerith now?
Vincent says he goes to the forgotten city often. Why? Kadaj's gang only got there like.. yesterday.

Vincent needs angst to live. So he needs to find powerful sources of angst to fuel him. A dead city is perfect for that.

"Which is it? A Memory or us?"
This was something that bugged me for a while. Is she referring to the memory of the forgotten city and Aerith's resting place? I dunno.

Zack, Aerith, Sephiroth, his failures, etc. It's the memories of his failures, and the fear of them no longer being memories. Hence Sephywephy's "I'll never be just a memory" line.

 

[IndianaoftheJones]

6. What Materia are Loz and Yazoo using?
It's stated in the script released with the special edition of Advent Children that Loz and Yazoo are loaded up with ultra powerful Materia such as Comet, Flare, Ultima, Fire, etc...

Damn, I wish they had showed them using it.

10. "Which is it? A memory or us?"
Tifa is simply showing her jealous streak again. In its simplest terms she's asking "Are you going to have a relationship with me, or Aerith, who's dead?"

I don't think she meant exactly that but it would have been more interesting if she had said this instead

 

[Reference]

I think it's a little bit of both.

I feel that "a memory or us" do refer to all of Cloud's fuck ups and his guilt with said fuck ups, and it is understandable tothe viewer that it is the case. But Tifa's iteration of the question itself seemed to focus on Aerith. Otherwise she would've said "[your] memories" as supposed to "a memory". It seems to suggest that she's adressing one particular memory.

 

[Channy]

Alright, so Ryu's explanation > everyone elses pretty much. Thanks man.

Also, gotta agree on Reference on the "a memory" vs "your memory" although sometimes to me it sounds like she's saying "our memory".

 

[holdthesun]

what I wanna know is... why the hell do they have bikes and aircrafts if flying or dropping from heights the size of skyscrapers is never a problem? Yuffee has to parachute her ass down from Sierra, yet manages to pull shit that would make Neo go WTF?

 

[Tetsujin]

Yeah, there's definitely an inconsistency there.

 

[Channy]

Lols.. That raised a question for me. Where did Kadaj's gang get their bikes from? Did they just materialize them?

 

[Tetsujin]

The weapons must definitely be materialized though I think the bikes are supposed to be stolen.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Their acrobatics and feats of gravity defying rely on them using their spirit energy and strength. It'd be a waste of energy if they constantly were in a battle heightened state and just kept running around, leaping and flying. That'd be like Cloud constantly moving and interacting with the real world in a limit break state.

 

[holdthesun]

Their acrobatics and feats of gravity defying rely on them using their spirit energy and strength..

ah of course, the whole Buddist-thing again... I suppose you can't have a Japaneese-produced game without that in the plot somewhere, twisted beyond limits of the ass end of space. Still gotta love it tho.

 

[Shadowfox]

And the line is spoken right after an Aerith scene.

Tifa spoke that line before Cloud had even left to get the kids, so chronologically speaking this was before Aerith ever made an appearance.

And I agree with the others, the "memory or us" line was regarding Cloud wallowing in his past failures to the extent that they're effectively stopping him from even trying to live.

 

[Reference]

Tifa spoke that line before Cloud had even left to get the kids, so chronologically speaking this was before Aerith ever made an appearance.

And I agree with the others, the "memory or us" line was regarding Cloud wallowing in his past failures to the extent that they're effectively stopping him from even trying to live.

Yeah but the viewer must consider at the narrative discourse, that is *takes out Cambridge book* the story as narrated. Meaning, there's a reason why the creators chose to show the events in the particular order that they did.

This actually coincides with my point. Because of the narrative discourse, the flashbacks/other scenes, the viewers know that Cloud is weighted down by the guilt of not only by Aerith's death, but Zack's as well (and his other fuck ups for that matter).

So it is natural for the viewer to associate the suggested meaning of that specific line in context of the whole film (if not the compilation).

But the question is with regards to the line itself, and shouldn't be skipped over so easily.

"Which is it, a memory or us?"

One must remember that this line is being delivered by a third party character to the main (in a sense of having the majority of the focus) character. Tifa to Cloud. Viewers can't just assume that Tifa knows what they know (by which I mean all of Cloud's issues as portrayed in the film). She may or may not know what's going on with Cloud or every aspect of what he has in mind.

The point is that her iteration of the question she is asking Cloud seems to suggest that she is addressing one particular memory. "A memory". Which memory? Well, by the scenes surrounding the event (narrative discourse), it could be Aerith's death.

All I'm really saying is that the line could adrress both Cloud's guilt and Tifa's insecurities. I don't think there's a definite answer as it is a question of personal interpretation.

Reception and interpretation is part of story telling, folks. It's no fun if the authors/creators just tell you everything.

 

[I Am Not Me]

Olz, I just watched that when I took the screen shot, which.. none of you are really addressing the most upsetting one for me.

WHY ARE THEY TAINTING HER WATER?!?!?!?

Well, I didn't think I had to answer that one because it was pretty obvious:

They're the bad guys.

 

[Ryushikaze]

As for why they own bikes and airships and Yuffie uses parachutes when she can to mega jumps, in the first case, it's a matter of simple energy efficiency, it's a much more expedient process to use the vehicle's energy rather than their own, especially as it is capable of much longer sustained expenditure.

As for the latter, a matter of control. Only Vincent can truly fly, the others are simply making the equivalent of boosted jumps. While theoretically possible to alter their midair momentum by controlled bursts, it is more efficient to use the external aid of the parachute, at least in Yuffie's case. Cid apparently couldn't care less, but the man is a Ryu Kishi.

Also, reference, while you have a salient point there, don't forget that the other strongest mention of memory in the film comes from the memory dialogue between Cloud and Sephy. Additionally, Sakurai, Cloud's VA, says he believes the memory refers to Sephiroth, for as much weight as his statements are worth.

 

[Reference]

Also, reference, while you have a salient point there, don't forget that the other strongest mention of memory in the film comes from the memory dialogue between Cloud and Sephy. Additionally, Sakurai, Cloud's VA, says he believes the memory refers to Sephiroth, for as much weight as his statements are worth.

Yeah could be that too.

The issue really is just with regards to what had Tifa meant with "a memory". We as viewers could draw numerous (Aerith, Zack, Sephy, etc) assumptions via Cloud, being on the receiving end of the question. But it is harder to draw assumptions from the question's origin [Tifa]. What did she really mean by that? What is she, as a character, focused on?

One could say, and I say this hypothetically, that she was addressing the memory of Aerith's death based on the context of the conversation in which she asked the question.

Her family is falling apart; the kids were taken and Cloud is reluctant to do anything about it. He mentioned it himself: "I can't protect anybody. Not my family, not my friends, nobody". If Cloud is expressing his inability to protect, I think it's natural that Tifa would think of the past incident where Cloud had failed to protect somebody in which she was present and also affected by (Aerith's death). She could be "jealous", and I use that word loosly, or insecure of her importance to Cloud if he's prioritizing Aerith's memory (the memory that is hindering Cloud from rescuing the kids, which then prompts Tifa to drop the bomb and ask the question "a memory or us?").

So in favour of the idea Tifa adressing Aerith's death:
a) she knew about that particular memory (she was there), more so than the other possibilities with regards to which memory
b) linking that particular memory to the current situation (Cloud's guilt of his inability to protect) and there for questioning her [their] importance to him.

^ That's all hypothetical. I'm just saying it could be a reason.

But there really are many conclusions to be drawn and assumed (like you said, you can throw Seph in there) with regards to what she was in fact referring to. So... I'm still sitting on the fence (a fence with many sides apparantly) and think it has a mix of Tifa's insecurities along side Cloud's guilt issues.





In response to the LT jealousy claim, I don't think it's entirely because of jealousy. Otherwise, she would've just said "a memory or me?" She was wasn't only speaking of herself, but also Denzel and Marlene.