Reason to why i don't like the later FF7 adaptations

[Loxetta]

Lets check the emotion bubble.

Ok. So AC covers Nomura's flavor of sadness. Fine. Yeah i don't see that part which i covered. Actually excited seems to fit really well with FF7 PS1 model in my view, "I'll add that with a small flavor of scared and angry" and there you go . I will give all the emotions... except the sad part. That is pure Nomura's vision.

I'm not going to use an 'emotion bubble' to gauge the symptoms for a complex mental illness that a fictional character may or may not have. I'd use diagnostic criteria for that. Also personal experience, as a person with major depressive disorder.

Even basic googling will tell you that depression is not limited to just being some variation of sad all the time. It doesn't work like that for everyone.

Over the course of the compilation -- and I mean all of it, from the OG to CC, but not DC because cameo -- Cloud has carried these kinds of emotional problems in almost every entry. When he was a kid, he was shunned and blamed for Tifa's accident. When he was with Shinra, he was rejected for SOLDIER because of his 'weak will'. When he was chasing Sephiroth he was mindfucked into doubting he was a real person. And even after the high point in his life, when he saves the world, gets a family, and a happy ending, it all turns to ash because the world isn't saved after all, he can't cure Denzel's sickness, he can't bring his friends back to life.

Cloud doesn't need one final showdown to get over it, he needs some Prozac and some therapy ffs

 

[Tennyo]

To be honest, I'm beginning to think we have a

 

[Loxetta]

Agree. I'm bowing out of the thread before I embarrass myself.

 

[Geostigma]

To be honest, I'm beginning to think we have a

I figured the only reason we stuck around these threads is because Hian presented well thought out replies and we were only playfully indulging the OP?

I mean I straight up called his thread Tumblr Tier trash in my first post here guys lol This guys definitely a troll.

 

[Tennyo]

Look at you Gabe, so smug.

Nah but I suppose the rest of us had a good conversation about it.

 

[Geostigma]

Well I mean over all the conversation in the last 3 pages that took place is pretty much all due to Hian getting the ball rolling on Clouds character etc. lol


And yup always smug <3

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Or to have him come out of the gate confident, only to have that confidence be trashed later.

Isn't that precisely the direction they took him in, though? He begins Episode:Tifa as the confident, reassuring one.

 

[hian]

I would reply at length to the points, but due to time constraints I'll just ask this -
When in the time-line were the novellas released? Before or after AC?

I'll grant that as a hole they might fix the issue.

I still feel that landing the blame on geostigma is a cop-out from a writers perspective though, since geostigma should never have been a thing to begin with.
It literally stinks of "I could not think of a good reason to nerf Cloud's superhuman strength enough for it to make sense for him to struggle against anything, so I'll just pretend the stuff at the end of the original never happened and make up this disease for him to struggle with".

Again, I think the issue of Cloud's depression and this ties together.
To say that it makes sense in light of geostigma, is not a good answer if geostigma itself doesn't make sense (as I would argue it doesn't).

You could of course pin it on other things too. Or go deep into the psychology of trauma survivors, but at that point we're again moving into territory of rationalizing the gaps left by bad writing, not doing an analysis of what was actually written anymore.
AC provides us geostigma, and symbolic ephemeral scenes of Aerith and Zack. That's what we have to work with here.
If psychology at the level some people suggest in this thread really came into it and was intended by the writer, we should expect exposition and scenes that reflect this. That's not what AC gives us.

 

[Sofen]

Lets check the emotion bubble.

Ok. So AC covers Nomura's flavor of sadness. Fine. Yeah i don't see that part which i covered. Actually excited seems to fit really well with FF7 PS1 model in my view, "I'll add that with a small flavor of scared and angry" and there you go . I will give all the emotions... except the sad part. That is pure Nomura's vision.

Over the course of the compilation -- and I mean all of it, from the OG to CC, but not DC because cameo -- Cloud has carried these kinds of emotional problems in almost every entry. When he was a kid, he was shunned and blamed for Tifa's accident. When he was with Shinra, he was rejected for SOLDIER because of his 'weak will'. When he was chasing Sephiroth he was mindfucked into doubting he was a real person. And even after the high point in his life, when he saves the world, gets a family, and a happy ending, it all turns to ash because the world isn't saved after all, he can't cure Denzel's sickness, he can't bring his friends back to life.

Cloud doesn't need one final showdown to get over it, he needs some Prozac and some therapy ffs

You seem to ignore the idea that he felt like he wanted to grow up when he went to his memory bank as a child because he never had a real childhood. Sorry, but where did it said "I moped because i was shunned by an adult" nowhere!. You mean "I was angry because of my weakness" there you go, anger bubble. That's more Nomura's brainwashing having that effect of making him mopey. It never happend. Sakaguchi was the one making it awesome. So thank god for him!!

 

[Geostigma]

 

[Sofen]

Its sad that one has to resort to mock spoof video because they disagree. But ok

 

[Geostigma]

 

[Sofen]

I don't really get it? I mean do you have something to say or are you just gonna spam videos as an answer. That would work well in the spam section. But i am just saying if you have nothing to say then why bother. Is it because you don't like my opinions or something?

Well either way.

 

[Clement Rage]

Y'know, people are saying Cloud is regressing, but he actually has a completely different difficulty in AC.

In ff7, he's not upset because 'it's all my fault', or, 'I can't protect anyone'. He lost his identity due to Mako poisoning, he doesn't know who he is or if he exists. He crashes in the North Cave because Sephiroth convinces him that Cloud Strife never existed, he was just a fake memory and he really was never more than a puppet created as an extension of his will.

What gets resolved in the Lifstream with Tifa isn't about whose fault it is. The revelation isn't about culpability. The revelation is that a boy named Cloud Strife actually really existed in memories not created or provided by JENOVA.
Which never comes up at all in AC. It's a new problem, after everything that has happened to him finally hits once things settle down after the end of the world is averted.

 

[Unit-01]

And this one(bump)...

WHAT THE FUCK?!

 

[Tennyo]

This thread actually had some decent discussion.

Y'know, people are saying Cloud is regressing, but he actually has a completely different difficulty in AC.

In ff7, he's not upset because 'it's all my fault', or, 'I can't protect anyone'. He lost his identity due to Mako poisoning, he doesn't know who he is or if he exists. He crashes in the North Cave because Sephiroth convinces him that Cloud Strife never existed, he was just a fake memory and he really was never more than a puppet created as an extension of his will.

What gets resolved in the Lifstream with Tifa isn't about whose fault it is. The revelation isn't about culpability. The revelation is that a boy named Cloud Strife actually really existed in memories not created or provided by JENOVA.
Which never comes up at all in AC. It's a new problem, after everything that has happened to him finally hits once things settle down after the end of the world is averted.

Such as this. This is a completely valid point, but I don't wonder if one didn't have some impact on the other. Cloud wasn't a very stable person to begin with. The idea that he would cave makes sense to me. But yeah, it is a new set of problems.

 

[Unit-01]

I was referring to the earlier points. Made by the troll.

Clement just got a late 'Thanks"

 

[Clement Rage]

There are some others back the way, I just lucked out by being at the end. I particularly like Octo's response to the 'emotions chart'.

Such as this. This is a completely valid point, but I don't wonder if one didn't have some impact on the other. Cloud wasn't a very stable person to begin with. The idea that he would cave makes sense to me. But yeah, it is a new set of problems.

Somewhere back the way, it was mentioned that he already got over Aeris and Zack. He didn't. And that hit him after he adopted a kid that turned out to be terminally ill, adding someone else to his list of 'people I have to watch die' I can totally see it happening, but that doesn't mean it's regression. It's very slow, very difficult, progress.