Remake Interviews: Catch-all Thread
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OdaDaimyO
Conqueror of Sugar
- AKA
- Mochi Lover
OdaDaimyO
Conqueror of Sugar
- AKA
- Mochi Lover
Before this subject drops to zero: I stumbled over another post on the Mognet forum, it possibly tells us more about CC2's role at the beginning of the Project.
This time the written post is from an Administrator of the site:
Not sure how legit that is and how much is his own assumption, or maybe I am reading too much into this. But when there is only a little bit of truth in there, does that mean CC2 had the leading role at the start?
My theory would be: SE hired CC2 to give them a headstart on the development! It seems SE needed more time to recollect their resources or reconstruct/strengthening BD 1. I know there is an Nomura Interview floating around the Net, shortly after the announcement of the Remake, where he is concerning about the immense manpower that is necessary to developing an Triple A Game today.
Who knows? Maybe the apparatus "Final Fantasy VII Remake" is much bigger than we thought.
This time the written post is from an Administrator of the site:
APZonerunner said:
Not sure how legit that is and how much is his own assumption, or maybe I am reading too much into this. But when there is only a little bit of truth in there, does that mean CC2 had the leading role at the start?
My theory would be: SE hired CC2 to give them a headstart on the development! It seems SE needed more time to recollect their resources or reconstruct/strengthening BD 1. I know there is an Nomura Interview floating around the Net, shortly after the announcement of the Remake, where he is concerning about the immense manpower that is necessary to developing an Triple A Game today.
Who knows? Maybe the apparatus "Final Fantasy VII Remake" is much bigger than we thought.
Cthulhu
Administrator
- AKA
- Yop
I think in this case CC2 is the production team, that is, doing the grunt work of modeling, texturing, maybe even animations and shit, while SE does the storyline and the like. SE is probably also responsible for things like voice acting, maybe motion acting, and off course marketing and publishing.
It's not uncommon nowadays for work to be outsourced; a lot of the assets for Horizon Zero Dawn were outsourced (article) for example, and I'm sure this is true for most AAA games. I'm not judging, making a game nowadays is a fuckton of work and it'll only increase over time - although not as quickly as it used to, I think. but, I don't know.
anyway. Yes.
It's not uncommon nowadays for work to be outsourced; a lot of the assets for Horizon Zero Dawn were outsourced (article) for example, and I'm sure this is true for most AAA games. I'm not judging, making a game nowadays is a fuckton of work and it'll only increase over time - although not as quickly as it used to, I think. but, I don't know.
anyway. Yes.
OdaDaimyO
Conqueror of Sugar
- AKA
- Mochi Lover
There isn't anything I could disagree with you, actually I hope this is much closer to the truth than what we know so far.Cthulhu said:
Thanks for the heads-up!Cthulhu said:
But it's not like I don't know, especially in the AAA gaming business, that outsourcing is a common practice there.I am much more frustrated about the case, that people all over the Internet, be it YouTube, Reddit and other Fan-or gaming sites, and even professional gaming journalists, who are automatically assuming that "In-House" means, the whole production&development of this game are taking place at one and the same location...that's ridiculous!
Lets take Final Fantasy XV for example: Officially it is known as an "In-House production" too, but everyone who actually followed the "Active Time Reports" knows about the partnership with Taiwanese Developer XPEC Entertainment (Train Station+Cats Cam Demo) and other Companies.
Every thread or article with FF7:R as it's headline is soiled with this topic (exept here at TLS), I don't want to hear this anymore!
That's why I hoped, when I found this post from that [name redacted] guy (it sounded very legit too), that i would ignite something in this forum and someone could reaffirm that claim. I know this sounds selfish...but I am new to the whole FF community and to be honest, yesterday I wrote my VERY FIRST POST EVER ON THE INTERNET, and believe me, you don't say something like this out loud, especially in my age
(Note: no teenager). That's why to pester that Vallen personally, only because "I can", is not an option for me.With that I let it rest now, and you guys don't need to reply to this post either!
I wish you all a good day!
Yours truly,
your Conqueror of Sugar (this is no death letter btw
)
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Hian and I have discussed this at length, and he prompted the idea (and I agree) that what was actually happening is that Square possibly wanted the remake to be outsourced because they wanted this game out as a smaller, quicker project that could compensate for any losses XV looked like it might be suffering. The sales for XV were good, but you have to balance that against how long this took. Even if the game was on ice for much of that, that's time that wasn't spent directly producing a product that directly create's sales. A lot of that time was fixing XIV.
So while the board may have been happy just getting VII-R to exist, Hian's theorized that Nomura and Kitase wanted to be much more hands-on with the project, and fought to bring it in-house so they could have more direct control over the process rather than rely on CC2s judgement on some matters.
So while the board may have been happy just getting VII-R to exist, Hian's theorized that Nomura and Kitase wanted to be much more hands-on with the project, and fought to bring it in-house so they could have more direct control over the process rather than rely on CC2s judgement on some matters.
OdaDaimyO
Conqueror of Sugar
- AKA
- Mochi Lover
@ChipNoir interesting...
You know, everytime I heard SE talking about the Remake, before the official announcement was made, it was like: "Oooh it will be so huuuuge, so big like space itself, do you know spaaaaace?"
But seriously, you want to tell me SE brought the Remake Project alive, only to clean up the mess of another Project that is still in developement?
Maybe I got something wrong? I thought SE is shitting their pants when it comes to actually tackle the Remake, but it looks like they shitting ON it!
And there is this obviously: Square Enix + Foresight = Kupo?
Much more so when they never had any saying about this!?
Remember when they informed us that developement started one year before the announcement?
What happended at that time? (Japan's console market at lowest...) (PS4's sales weakness...)
On the next big gaming event at the SONY stage we get: FFVII:R; Shenmue III; The Last Guardian;
Coincidence? I think not.
I need my dose of sugar...
You know, everytime I heard SE talking about the Remake, before the official announcement was made, it was like: "Oooh it will be so huuuuge, so big like space itself, do you know spaaaaace?"
But seriously, you want to tell me SE brought the Remake Project alive, only to clean up the mess of another Project that is still in developement?
Maybe I got something wrong? I thought SE is shitting their pants when it comes to actually tackle the Remake, but it looks like they shitting ON it!
And there is this obviously: Square Enix + Foresight = Kupo?
Much more so when they never had any saying about this!?
Remember when they informed us that developement started one year before the announcement?
What happended at that time? (Japan's console market at lowest...) (PS4's sales weakness...)
On the next big gaming event at the SONY stage we get: FFVII:R; Shenmue III; The Last Guardian;
Coincidence? I think not.
I need my dose of sugar...
X-SOLDIER
Harbinger O Great Justice
- AKA
- X
Given the latest potential news, it might be worth having one of our resident Japanese-fluent folks check out the original stream where that news dropped and see if there's any context that would help to provide some support one way or another. It seems especially important now, since the FF-Reunion article that Gematsu pointed to as a source doesn't seem to exist anymore, and that's also happened with the accounts of the user connected to the rumors about all of CC2's work being abandoned. The original FFVII:R news about moving development in-house from CC2 is from this stream at 20:10 – 23:30.
Any clarification / context might actually be newsworthy at this point, depending on if there's any potential for clarification (plus, it'd be nice to be the ones ta get to put out something that gets to shut down previous old rumors if it DOES turn out to be true).
Also, to contextually echo what Yop said, it makes a lot of sense that they could still be a production team and helping out with some of the work, even if their role on the Remake changed away from them being more of a direct collaboration partner like it started out. Given that the complaints about the look of the trailer were one of the things that we heard and CC2's significant experience with cinematic presentation in their recent games (Asura's Wrath and the Naruto Ultimate Ninja Storm games), it'd make sense that they'd've originally been more involved with some of the other directorial-type elements of parts of the game. However, if SE wanted some more control over the "feel" of the game, it'd be a sensitive subject for how they moved the development in-house, but then if some of the raw work was still being done by CC2, rather than them just being cut out of the project entirely.
Circumstantially, I do know that CC2's president, Piroshi Matsuyama is historically quite involved with fans of their games, and it definitely seems believable that he'd be candid about something like that if asked – especially if it's a, "What do you mean? We're still working on it." type reaction like the post seems to suggest.
X
Any clarification / context might actually be newsworthy at this point, depending on if there's any potential for clarification (plus, it'd be nice to be the ones ta get to put out something that gets to shut down previous old rumors if it DOES turn out to be true).
Also, to contextually echo what Yop said, it makes a lot of sense that they could still be a production team and helping out with some of the work, even if their role on the Remake changed away from them being more of a direct collaboration partner like it started out. Given that the complaints about the look of the trailer were one of the things that we heard and CC2's significant experience with cinematic presentation in their recent games (Asura's Wrath and the Naruto Ultimate Ninja Storm games), it'd make sense that they'd've originally been more involved with some of the other directorial-type elements of parts of the game. However, if SE wanted some more control over the "feel" of the game, it'd be a sensitive subject for how they moved the development in-house, but then if some of the raw work was still being done by CC2, rather than them just being cut out of the project entirely.
Circumstantially, I do know that CC2's president, Piroshi Matsuyama is historically quite involved with fans of their games, and it definitely seems believable that he'd be candid about something like that if asked – especially if it's a, "What do you mean? We're still working on it." type reaction like the post seems to suggest.
X
OdaDaimyO
Conqueror of Sugar
- AKA
- Mochi Lover
First and foremost...
I want to apologize for my rude and selfish behaviour, especially my handling with the claim from that person til to my very last post.
Since I registered on this Forum I forced my perception on this topic on everyone else without reason. Sorry for that!
Hope this doesn't make too much work (what a nusiance right?), but can someone from the Administrators take my links down that are leading to the [name redacted] forum?
I don't want that this person get unwanted attention, everyone on the Net can read this, and there is the possibility of individuals out there who will capitalize on this, without caring on the person involved (I already did on a dagree).
You can delete my posts too when it's more simple that way, i don't care how negatively my profile get affected by this.
@ChipNoir
I never tried to ridicule your theory or your statement on that matter, if it sounded like that then I hope you can forgive my outcry.
And now that I am on it:
I mean we are talking about THE REMAKE of videogame history!...I know I know, to manage a buisness like SE needs more than that, and it doesn't always get the way how we Fans want it to be, I understand that, but...COME ON!
@X-SOLDIER
O Harbringer Of Justice! My Hero in white Armor! My Idol! My Mochi on Cake...wait a minute...maybe not THAT great, but you know what I mean right?
I will pressing my thumbs and hope you guys get something useful out of this stream!
This is off-topic, but are you planning to continue your "The Potential Of ___ in the FFVII Remake" series? I am big fan of those.
Perhaps you waiting for new Remake News, so that we can ride with it on the Hype Train, or is it already cancelled?
I want to apologize for my rude and selfish behaviour, especially my handling with the claim from that person til to my very last post.
Since I registered on this Forum I forced my perception on this topic on everyone else without reason. Sorry for that!
Hope this doesn't make too much work (what a nusiance right?), but can someone from the Administrators take my links down that are leading to the [name redacted] forum?
I don't want that this person get unwanted attention, everyone on the Net can read this, and there is the possibility of individuals out there who will capitalize on this, without caring on the person involved (I already did on a dagree).
You can delete my posts too when it's more simple that way, i don't care how negatively my profile get affected by this.
@ChipNoir
I never tried to ridicule your theory or your statement on that matter, if it sounded like that then I hope you can forgive my outcry.
And now that I am on it:
That part is bullshit (wish I could edit my posts already)! What I meant was: That the Remake's type of approach was dependent on FF XV's fail or success!OdaDaimyO said:
I mean we are talking about THE REMAKE of videogame history!...I know I know, to manage a buisness like SE needs more than that, and it doesn't always get the way how we Fans want it to be, I understand that, but...COME ON!
@X-SOLDIER
O Harbringer Of Justice! My Hero in white Armor! My Idol! My Mochi on Cake...wait a minute...maybe not THAT great, but you know what I mean right?
That is the reason I started the whole discussion to begin with!X-SOLDIER said:
I will pressing my thumbs and hope you guys get something useful out of this stream!
This is off-topic, but are you planning to continue your "The Potential Of ___ in the FFVII Remake" series? I am big fan of those.
Perhaps you waiting for new Remake News, so that we can ride with it on the Hype Train, or is it already cancelled?
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X-SOLDIER
Harbinger O Great Justice
- AKA
- X
Fingers crossed we can glean something new/insightful from it.
Insofar as my, "The Potential Of ___ in the FFVII Remake" series – I would like to dive back into it, but did hit a little bit of a rough patch on being able to devote time to bigger side projects as concentratedly. I am rather notorious for being very sporadic with attachment to projects like that, and I'd likely to overcome that still. ^^; Quite glad you liked them though! I really want try to see if I can carve out some time to knock out at least the next two I had planned before the end of the year, depending on what winter ends up looking like for me.
X
hian
Purist
I'm pretty sure I did some basic translations of that the relevant parts of that video around the time it was first posted online, but you'd have to look through my post history, and it would likely be a pain.
Anyways, basically, he stumbles over himself a bit in the beginning talking about how's he's nervous and not sure about the right way of making the announcement because of the sensitivity around the issue (some people, myself included, first assumed this was a statement on the sensitivity of FFVIIR being brought in-house, however on a second viewing an given his follow up comments, it's apparent he is more likely refering to how fans of Mobius might react to him shifting his main focus from Mobius to FFVIIR. He makes multiple apologies and reassurance in this regard), and then simply goes on to state that, as people know, the remake was originally being outsourced, but because (in order to increase quality, and meet schedules more readily) it was decided to bring it in-house, he was asked to become the project lead for the game.
What this essentially means is that FFVIIR was originally being primarily developed by CC2, and that the development has now shifted to be primarily happening internally at SE, with Naoki Hamaguchi serving as project lead.
As I've said before, and given what I know from my contacts and experience in the industry, it seems almost without question that the approach taken with FFVIIR is very similar to say the way companies like Mistwalker has handled their projects in the past in its forrays with Nintendo and Microsoft.
Initally, almost the entire development happened over at CC2, with the core design and directorial team being over at SE providing directives, and hashing out the particulars with the project lead(s) over at CC2 remotely (Mistwalker worked in-house with both MS and Nintendo, but the corporate structure was the same - a "design team"; director, creative leads, writers etc.., and a development/production teams underneath; project lead, programmers, 3d modellers and animators etc.).
Then for reasons we can only speculate about, though strongly hinted at being creative differences and logistical problems surrounding the remote approach, on top of an initial plan of a speedy release, SE decided to development itself in-house, and build its own production team (hence the appointment of a local project lead with Naoki Hamaguchi).
In any case, it's important to realize there's a very big distinction between saying a game "is being outsourced" in an outright manner like this, and a game outsourcing work.
Almost all big AAA games outsource some portion of their, or bring in outside contractors. Not only does this go largely without saying, noone in the industry refers to this, or thinks of this as "outsourcing your game" more generally. Outsourcing your game literally means exactly that - having a off-sight or outside-company production team handle most of the development and production of assets, code and systems.
CC2 was doing this, and is no longer doing this.
It's impossible to say whether CC2 is involved at all anymore, though they must have been to some extent until all the project data etc. was brought in-house, unless SE decided to just scrap it all. They are however no longer meaningfully involved in the brunt of development, because if they were, SE would not need to build and bulk an internal developement team, nor appoint a project lead for it, as CC2 would already have that set up working on the game.
When we talk of "bringing a project in-house" or "outsourcing a project" we are not talking about minor or selective work-tasks - we are talking about the core workforce doing the vast majority of the leg-work of the game.
So CC2 was not just a collaboration partner doing some assets and scenes etc. like you might think of any of SE's minor collaborates that pitch in during tight spots on games like FFXV or FFXIII, they were the actual developers of the remake in the beginning.
They no longer are. Take that as it may.
Personally I lean towards them being totally cut loose, since 1.) we haven't heard anything about CC2's involvement since the split, and CC2 don't seem to be hiring or signaling any involement on the project on their end, and 2.) there just doesn't seem to be any need to rely on them given all of the other available subsidiary collaborators that SE can rely on for production that would come with less strings attached and at a lower cost - to not even speak of the fact that SE is wrapping up almost all their other work intensive projects in near future.
Anyways, basically, he stumbles over himself a bit in the beginning talking about how's he's nervous and not sure about the right way of making the announcement because of the sensitivity around the issue (some people, myself included, first assumed this was a statement on the sensitivity of FFVIIR being brought in-house, however on a second viewing an given his follow up comments, it's apparent he is more likely refering to how fans of Mobius might react to him shifting his main focus from Mobius to FFVIIR. He makes multiple apologies and reassurance in this regard), and then simply goes on to state that, as people know, the remake was originally being outsourced, but because (in order to increase quality, and meet schedules more readily) it was decided to bring it in-house, he was asked to become the project lead for the game.
What this essentially means is that FFVIIR was originally being primarily developed by CC2, and that the development has now shifted to be primarily happening internally at SE, with Naoki Hamaguchi serving as project lead.
As I've said before, and given what I know from my contacts and experience in the industry, it seems almost without question that the approach taken with FFVIIR is very similar to say the way companies like Mistwalker has handled their projects in the past in its forrays with Nintendo and Microsoft.
Initally, almost the entire development happened over at CC2, with the core design and directorial team being over at SE providing directives, and hashing out the particulars with the project lead(s) over at CC2 remotely (Mistwalker worked in-house with both MS and Nintendo, but the corporate structure was the same - a "design team"; director, creative leads, writers etc.., and a development/production teams underneath; project lead, programmers, 3d modellers and animators etc.).
Then for reasons we can only speculate about, though strongly hinted at being creative differences and logistical problems surrounding the remote approach, on top of an initial plan of a speedy release, SE decided to development itself in-house, and build its own production team (hence the appointment of a local project lead with Naoki Hamaguchi).
In any case, it's important to realize there's a very big distinction between saying a game "is being outsourced" in an outright manner like this, and a game outsourcing work.
Almost all big AAA games outsource some portion of their, or bring in outside contractors. Not only does this go largely without saying, noone in the industry refers to this, or thinks of this as "outsourcing your game" more generally. Outsourcing your game literally means exactly that - having a off-sight or outside-company production team handle most of the development and production of assets, code and systems.
CC2 was doing this, and is no longer doing this.
It's impossible to say whether CC2 is involved at all anymore, though they must have been to some extent until all the project data etc. was brought in-house, unless SE decided to just scrap it all. They are however no longer meaningfully involved in the brunt of development, because if they were, SE would not need to build and bulk an internal developement team, nor appoint a project lead for it, as CC2 would already have that set up working on the game.
When we talk of "bringing a project in-house" or "outsourcing a project" we are not talking about minor or selective work-tasks - we are talking about the core workforce doing the vast majority of the leg-work of the game.
So CC2 was not just a collaboration partner doing some assets and scenes etc. like you might think of any of SE's minor collaborates that pitch in during tight spots on games like FFXV or FFXIII, they were the actual developers of the remake in the beginning.
They no longer are. Take that as it may.
Personally I lean towards them being totally cut loose, since 1.) we haven't heard anything about CC2's involvement since the split, and CC2 don't seem to be hiring or signaling any involement on the project on their end, and 2.) there just doesn't seem to be any need to rely on them given all of the other available subsidiary collaborators that SE can rely on for production that would come with less strings attached and at a lower cost - to not even speak of the fact that SE is wrapping up almost all their other work intensive projects in near future.
Tashasaurous
Tash for Short
- AKA
- Sailor Moon, Mini Moon, Hotaru, Cardcaptor Sakura, Meilin, Xion, Kairi, Aqua, Tifa, Aerith, Yuffie, Elena, Misty, May, Dawn, Casey, Fiona, Ellie
If I remember correctly, Nomura did mention that he was surprised to have been picked as Director for the Remake a few years back in one of the interviews.
OdaDaimyO
Conqueror of Sugar
- AKA
- Mochi Lover
This is nothing in comparison how SE must have been surprised about developing the FFVII Remake already for THIS console generation! HAA!
pxp
Pro Adventurer
SQE renames/rebrands the Old G-bike Twitter account “FF7R_CLOUD”.
https://mobile.twitter.com/FFVIIR_CLOUD
Early indications of some movement/news for 2019?
https://mobile.twitter.com/FFVIIR_CLOUD
Early indications of some movement/news for 2019?
Shademp
420
Thanks for sharing this change @pxp!
One thing that confuses me though is that the old G-Bike twitter link does not redirect to the FF7R_Cloud twitter. So while the removal of one seems to coincide (at least somewhat) with the creation of the latter, plus both accounts use the same profile image, I am not sure if there is anything else that makes it appropriate to say that the old twitter account was rebranded/renamed.
One thing that confuses me though is that the old G-Bike twitter link does not redirect to the FF7R_Cloud twitter. So while the removal of one seems to coincide (at least somewhat) with the creation of the latter, plus both accounts use the same profile image, I am not sure if there is anything else that makes it appropriate to say that the old twitter account was rebranded/renamed.
X-SOLDIER
Harbinger O Great Justice
- AKA
- X
@Shademp The first tweet from that account is:
So, it's definitely just the renamed G-Bike account. Twitter accounts don't redirect renames. as far as I'm aware.
Also, the news description of the account seems promising:
(Is there anybody free to toss this up as news?)
X
So, it's definitely just the renamed G-Bike account. Twitter accounts don't redirect renames. as far as I'm aware.
Also, the news description of the account seems promising:
(Is there anybody free to toss this up as news?)
X
pxp
Pro Adventurer
Hmm, not sure. I confess that I was basically just forwarding what a couple of other FF7R message boards have been saying on the internet. Maybe rebranding/renaming isn't right, but there does seem to be something there in regards some possible info soon(-ish).
What I'm intrigued about is the "_CLOUD" part. Why Cloud? Perhaps the next piece of news will be the re-reveal of his new design?
Edit: And what X said just before I hit "post reply" ;-)
X-SOLDIER
Harbinger O Great Justice
- AKA
- X
I've got a free minute at work, so I'm gonna toss up some quick news in just a minute just to get it up there.
If anything else relevant comes up, please feel free to update it, since work's pretty hectic today.
EDIT: Done.
Also, if there're FFVII-R updates posted to that account, I made a separate news thread, so we can put updates there & keep this more focused on interviews specifically: https://thelifestream.net/forums/th...ecific-twitter-account-now.21046/#post-800244
X
If anything else relevant comes up, please feel free to update it, since work's pretty hectic today.
EDIT: Done.
Also, if there're FFVII-R updates posted to that account, I made a separate news thread, so we can put updates there & keep this more focused on interviews specifically: https://thelifestream.net/forums/th...ecific-twitter-account-now.21046/#post-800244
X
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Nandemoyasan
Standing guard
- AKA
- Johnny
SE likes to keep things mostly very stoic, so I don't have much hope that they'll use this as a sort of 'Mouthpiece' for Cloud as a character, but that was my first flash of thought when I read it.
"Barrett on the phone wantin' me to see his oil find. DITCHING to go to Healin #LameBarrettFlexes #BarrettWearsSailorSuits"
"Barrett on the phone wantin' me to see his oil find. DITCHING to go to Healin #LameBarrettFlexes #BarrettWearsSailorSuits"
ForceStealer
Double Growth
EDIT: (I have no idea why the forum keeps splitting up that quote, even after I delete the tags)
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Lex
Administrator
@ForceStealer when I hit "edit" on your post the tags are still there?
Also that is relieving to hear! Hope he's feeling fully recovered and sticks around for a long loooooooooooong time to come.
Also that is relieving to hear! Hope he's feeling fully recovered and sticks around for a long loooooooooooong time to come.
pxp
Pro Adventurer
I wonder if he completed composition and maybe even the recording of Part 1 prior to his hiatus? Maybe so given his alleged “Part One was meant to drop” comment in that interview in July (although I’m aware some interpret what he said to just mean he was hoping to play more FF7 music live in 2018).