hian
Purist
Firstly, before I comment on this - here is my translation of the new Dengeki tidbit
So, first things first -
Yes, they are obviously saying that they'll be making adjustment to scenes based on the social climate of today.
No, they are not saying that the game won't be open-world-ish, or even open world - but rather that they're not going to be particularly concerned about working towards some set concept of a sand-box game I.E that they'll develop this game organically making the environments based on what they think will convey the story best, make game-play interesting - not decide on a world-format first and then try to force everything else to suit.
They haven't been clear on mini-games - but it's probably that they will cut-out the minor ones of no real impact or remembrance with the fans I.E
things like G-bike, Chocobo racing, Snowboarding and the Battle Arena will probably stick around, while sumo-hand-wrestling, and having abstract button-pressing mini-games at random points around the game will go.
Because why would Cloud have to stand at a ledge and time a button press to jump on a swinging piece of steel, when they could make an actual visually interesting Uncharted-ish platforming segment for climbing the plate instead?
On the social issue thing (sorry Lex, I ended up using your post as a spring-board =P Don't take it personally, it's not a response to you per say) :
Based on their choice of wording, I doubt that is the case. If they were worried about rating and reaching a wider audience, they'd say that instead of talking about the times and the state of society.
I don't think anyone denies this - but choices don't happen in a vacuum, and as artistry and business is intertwined in gaming like no other medium, it's completely imaginable that artists end up making choices they otherwise wouldn't ultimately for business reasons.
That's a sad state of affairs for the artistic value of the medium to my mind.
How meaningful is a choice to change something if it's essentially done as self-censorship you rather wouldn't want to do, but feel forced to do because going with your heart is going to make you into a social pariah and damage your business?
Really? I've seen plenty of people in comment sections online going on about Barret/Cid/Tifa being offensive, or about how the various scenes of FFVII dealing with homosexuality and trans-sexuality is offensive (Cloud dressing like a woman essentially making trans people into the but of a joke etc.)
I've seen even more people complain about similar things in other games, who're likely to latch onto FFVIIR when its released because FFVIIR's scope and reach is going to be much greater than that of the original, an almost 2 decades old game that most people really don't care about or even know all that much about.
Do you think this is a good-faith reading of the current climate on the internet?
Dozens of articles on various gaming sites on regular basis for at least 2 years (since it become noticeable to me at least) have spent time and space calling out stereotypes/"tropes" in games and labeling the people who make/buy/enjoy them as retrograde human beings in every sense that matter nowadays, with closely moderated comment sections filled with circle-jerks of people joining the choir.
Here's the thing -
If I came up to you and told you that the T-shirt you're wearing at the moment was made by child-slaves in a sweat-shop in Burma, and that by buying it and wearing it you're attributing to and supporting child-slavery and torture, and that this by extension makes you a colonialist and white nationalist, you'd probably rip off that T-shirt in a second.
For me to then go "I'm not saying you don't have to wear it, or that I don't want you to wear it - it's just me going 'ugh those T-shirts, like seriously'" is in my opinion not only disingenuous, but also insulting to boot.
As an example - Personally, I don't agree that there is a problem with Barret's original portrayal in FFVII - not only does me liking him as a character not bear any relevance on anything what so ever, he also happens to be extremely similar to several of my best friends, and probably one of the primary factors having made FF7 popular in down-town street-kid sub-culture I used to belong to back in the late 90's (case in point - if you went to youtube right after the launch of the game-play trailer and looked at the first wave of reaction videos, most of them were by U.S men of color going "DAAAAAUUUUUM THAT'S MAH MAN BARRET!").
Yet, in spite of this, you can have some geeky white loaf with a liberal arts degree on Kotaku going "Barret is racist and problematic", but hey, it's not an attempt at having stuff change.
I guess what I am trying to say here is - If people don't want this stuff to change why are they even pointing it out to begin with?
More so, why are they using negative loaded terms associated with bigotry do describe them while pretending what they're saying doesn't have an impact?
In my example of the sweat-shop, at least presumably we're talking about something that is objectively demonstrable - namely whether or not your T-shirt is actually produced in such a place.
In regards to portrayal of characters in art and media that simply isn't the case.
Messaging is ambiguous and interpretive in nature.
Some people say Barret as a raging Mr.T stereotype - I didn't take him that way at all - probably because doing so would mean labeling over a dozen close friends of mine "raging MR.T stereotypes" and I don't know how comfortable I'd be doing that).
He speaks with slang, as does a very large part of the U.S black population who've grown up in circumstances analogous to him.
Apart from that though, Barret is a single father, who openly shows emotions (openly cries at several points in the story), expresses a large set of different personality traits, and has a larger story-arch and clear character progression.
In fact, I'd argue that Barret is one of the best developed black characters in all of gaming period, yet a lot of people reduce him to the most basic traits of his characters and shit all over him, and then on top of that, they get away with the implication that people who like him like that, or don't want him to change, or even that the people who made him, are somehow racist (with all the negative associations that follow).
That's sad. It's deeply, deeply sad to me. It's sad because it shows people's lack of creative intellect in engaging with characters and stories. And, it's sad because it stomps creative expression.
I'm fine with Nomura/Kitase/Nojima changing stuff in the story based on their own creative preferences for the sake of making what they think will be a good story, or a good game.
What I am not for, is artists skimping on their products based on a worry about public reaction - especially a reaction that is largely blown out of proportion since the kind of opinions fronted by people such as worryworts over at Kotaku and Polygon are not at all in touch with the larger gaming population - as is patently obvious by the sales of games like Witcher 3 etc.
Now, as for my actually opinion on this - I'm unsure how much change we should expect. I think the original scenes we're quite ambiguous and open to interpretation leaving them largely harmless. With the new graphics and voice acting, that could easily change, which is a concern for Nomura and Kitase I'm sure. It could easily swing in all sorts of ways. It's too early to start complaining.
As for the open world thing :
http://blog.esuteru.com/archives/8445276.html
Interview With Kitase P(producer) Nomura D(director) about Final Fantasy 7 Remake :
The following is only a summarized excerpt of the things that I took notice of the most.　(trans. Note : clarification - that's not me saying that, but the author of the original article. Seems like I might have to buy Dengeki to get the entire interview)
In regards to "voice" (voice-acting)
Nomura :
Basically, it's going to be fully voice-acted. So, we have to decide on new ones for the characters that were not given voices in FF7AC.
(Which is to say that the "date event" will be fully voiced [as well]?)
Kitase :
That's something we're going to have to deal with as well (laughs)
It's just that because the state of society has changed since back then [when the original was first released], it's necessary to deal with the recreation of the original scenes with discretion/prudence.
Nomura :
Like the Honey Bee Inn and such (laughs).
(Will the map be open-world?)
Kitase :
We cannot say anything yet, but the so-called open world or what is referred to as sand-box format, is not something we plan to fuss about.
(trans. note : literally "kodawaru tsumori ha nai" こだわるつもりはない
Kodawaru means to hold a preference, and kodawaranai, it's negative form is used in common speech to show non-commitment to any given alternative.
"Tsumori" is a word used to describe plans and intents tacked on after verbs.
In the context of this question this means that Kitase is saying he/they do not plan on going out of their way to make the game conform to some idea of the sandbox format - it does not mean that the game will not be in one format or another that may be considered open world, or similar to open world once released)
However, because Nomura is particular/concerned the creation of the scenery/background/setting, we want to make an environment where the actions of characters has an impact/effect/influence on the scenery/background/setting.
(How will the mini-games turn out?)
Kitase :
As far as possible, we want to include the mini-games that have remained in the fans impressions/memories of the game.
Nomura :
From big things to small things, there was a lot [of stuff in the game], but whether there is [really] a necessity to make it all with the latest technology, that's something we have to consider.
Kitase :
The development staff is also thinking/concerned about what to do about the mini-games.
(What's the state of the production?)
Kitase :
We're finally at the stage of "standing at the starting point"
(trans. note : I couldn't think of a good natural English for this - perhaps a good one would be "we've finally completed all preparations to begin full development".)
We also have a plan/concept for the battle system, but it will take a lot more time before we have it all properly implemented in the actual game.
(Are there a lot of expectations in regards to
2017, the year that will be FF7's 20th anniversary -
more specifically - January 31st, which was the original's
release date?)
Kitase :
I can't say anything about that at this time (laughs)
Nomura :
Personally, in 2016, I'm held back by "KH HD 2.8" and "World of FF" among
other things.　I think the next time I/we can put out information [on this topic]
will be after [those projects] have settled down.
Interview With Kitase P(producer) Nomura D(director) about Final Fantasy 7 Remake :
The following is only a summarized excerpt of the things that I took notice of the most.　(trans. Note : clarification - that's not me saying that, but the author of the original article. Seems like I might have to buy Dengeki to get the entire interview)
In regards to "voice" (voice-acting)
Nomura :
Basically, it's going to be fully voice-acted. So, we have to decide on new ones for the characters that were not given voices in FF7AC.
(Which is to say that the "date event" will be fully voiced [as well]?)
Kitase :
That's something we're going to have to deal with as well (laughs)
It's just that because the state of society has changed since back then [when the original was first released], it's necessary to deal with the recreation of the original scenes with discretion/prudence.
Nomura :
Like the Honey Bee Inn and such (laughs).
(Will the map be open-world?)
Kitase :
We cannot say anything yet, but the so-called open world or what is referred to as sand-box format, is not something we plan to fuss about.
(trans. note : literally "kodawaru tsumori ha nai" こだわるつもりはない
Kodawaru means to hold a preference, and kodawaranai, it's negative form is used in common speech to show non-commitment to any given alternative.
"Tsumori" is a word used to describe plans and intents tacked on after verbs.
In the context of this question this means that Kitase is saying he/they do not plan on going out of their way to make the game conform to some idea of the sandbox format - it does not mean that the game will not be in one format or another that may be considered open world, or similar to open world once released)
However, because Nomura is particular/concerned the creation of the scenery/background/setting, we want to make an environment where the actions of characters has an impact/effect/influence on the scenery/background/setting.
(How will the mini-games turn out?)
Kitase :
As far as possible, we want to include the mini-games that have remained in the fans impressions/memories of the game.
Nomura :
From big things to small things, there was a lot [of stuff in the game], but whether there is [really] a necessity to make it all with the latest technology, that's something we have to consider.
Kitase :
The development staff is also thinking/concerned about what to do about the mini-games.
(What's the state of the production?)
Kitase :
We're finally at the stage of "standing at the starting point"
(trans. note : I couldn't think of a good natural English for this - perhaps a good one would be "we've finally completed all preparations to begin full development".)
We also have a plan/concept for the battle system, but it will take a lot more time before we have it all properly implemented in the actual game.
(Are there a lot of expectations in regards to
2017, the year that will be FF7's 20th anniversary -
more specifically - January 31st, which was the original's
release date?)
Kitase :
I can't say anything about that at this time (laughs)
Nomura :
Personally, in 2016, I'm held back by "KH HD 2.8" and "World of FF" among
other things.　I think the next time I/we can put out information [on this topic]
will be after [those projects] have settled down.
So, first things first -
Yes, they are obviously saying that they'll be making adjustment to scenes based on the social climate of today.
No, they are not saying that the game won't be open-world-ish, or even open world - but rather that they're not going to be particularly concerned about working towards some set concept of a sand-box game I.E that they'll develop this game organically making the environments based on what they think will convey the story best, make game-play interesting - not decide on a world-format first and then try to force everything else to suit.
They haven't been clear on mini-games - but it's probably that they will cut-out the minor ones of no real impact or remembrance with the fans I.E
things like G-bike, Chocobo racing, Snowboarding and the Battle Arena will probably stick around, while sumo-hand-wrestling, and having abstract button-pressing mini-games at random points around the game will go.
Because why would Cloud have to stand at a ledge and time a button press to jump on a swinging piece of steel, when they could make an actual visually interesting Uncharted-ish platforming segment for climbing the plate instead?
On the social issue thing (sorry Lex, I ended up using your post as a spring-board =P Don't take it personally, it's not a response to you per say) :
Based on their choice of wording, I doubt that is the case. If they were worried about rating and reaching a wider audience, they'd say that instead of talking about the times and the state of society.
I don't think anyone denies this - but choices don't happen in a vacuum, and as artistry and business is intertwined in gaming like no other medium, it's completely imaginable that artists end up making choices they otherwise wouldn't ultimately for business reasons.
That's a sad state of affairs for the artistic value of the medium to my mind.
How meaningful is a choice to change something if it's essentially done as self-censorship you rather wouldn't want to do, but feel forced to do because going with your heart is going to make you into a social pariah and damage your business?
Really? I've seen plenty of people in comment sections online going on about Barret/Cid/Tifa being offensive, or about how the various scenes of FFVII dealing with homosexuality and trans-sexuality is offensive (Cloud dressing like a woman essentially making trans people into the but of a joke etc.)
I've seen even more people complain about similar things in other games, who're likely to latch onto FFVIIR when its released because FFVIIR's scope and reach is going to be much greater than that of the original, an almost 2 decades old game that most people really don't care about or even know all that much about.
Do you think this is a good-faith reading of the current climate on the internet?
Dozens of articles on various gaming sites on regular basis for at least 2 years (since it become noticeable to me at least) have spent time and space calling out stereotypes/"tropes" in games and labeling the people who make/buy/enjoy them as retrograde human beings in every sense that matter nowadays, with closely moderated comment sections filled with circle-jerks of people joining the choir.
Here's the thing -
If I came up to you and told you that the T-shirt you're wearing at the moment was made by child-slaves in a sweat-shop in Burma, and that by buying it and wearing it you're attributing to and supporting child-slavery and torture, and that this by extension makes you a colonialist and white nationalist, you'd probably rip off that T-shirt in a second.
For me to then go "I'm not saying you don't have to wear it, or that I don't want you to wear it - it's just me going 'ugh those T-shirts, like seriously'" is in my opinion not only disingenuous, but also insulting to boot.
As an example - Personally, I don't agree that there is a problem with Barret's original portrayal in FFVII - not only does me liking him as a character not bear any relevance on anything what so ever, he also happens to be extremely similar to several of my best friends, and probably one of the primary factors having made FF7 popular in down-town street-kid sub-culture I used to belong to back in the late 90's (case in point - if you went to youtube right after the launch of the game-play trailer and looked at the first wave of reaction videos, most of them were by U.S men of color going "DAAAAAUUUUUM THAT'S MAH MAN BARRET!").
Yet, in spite of this, you can have some geeky white loaf with a liberal arts degree on Kotaku going "Barret is racist and problematic", but hey, it's not an attempt at having stuff change.
I guess what I am trying to say here is - If people don't want this stuff to change why are they even pointing it out to begin with?
More so, why are they using negative loaded terms associated with bigotry do describe them while pretending what they're saying doesn't have an impact?
In my example of the sweat-shop, at least presumably we're talking about something that is objectively demonstrable - namely whether or not your T-shirt is actually produced in such a place.
In regards to portrayal of characters in art and media that simply isn't the case.
Messaging is ambiguous and interpretive in nature.
Some people say Barret as a raging Mr.T stereotype - I didn't take him that way at all - probably because doing so would mean labeling over a dozen close friends of mine "raging MR.T stereotypes" and I don't know how comfortable I'd be doing that).
He speaks with slang, as does a very large part of the U.S black population who've grown up in circumstances analogous to him.
Apart from that though, Barret is a single father, who openly shows emotions (openly cries at several points in the story), expresses a large set of different personality traits, and has a larger story-arch and clear character progression.
In fact, I'd argue that Barret is one of the best developed black characters in all of gaming period, yet a lot of people reduce him to the most basic traits of his characters and shit all over him, and then on top of that, they get away with the implication that people who like him like that, or don't want him to change, or even that the people who made him, are somehow racist (with all the negative associations that follow).
That's sad. It's deeply, deeply sad to me. It's sad because it shows people's lack of creative intellect in engaging with characters and stories. And, it's sad because it stomps creative expression.
I'm fine with Nomura/Kitase/Nojima changing stuff in the story based on their own creative preferences for the sake of making what they think will be a good story, or a good game.
What I am not for, is artists skimping on their products based on a worry about public reaction - especially a reaction that is largely blown out of proportion since the kind of opinions fronted by people such as worryworts over at Kotaku and Polygon are not at all in touch with the larger gaming population - as is patently obvious by the sales of games like Witcher 3 etc.
Now, as for my actually opinion on this - I'm unsure how much change we should expect. I think the original scenes we're quite ambiguous and open to interpretation leaving them largely harmless. With the new graphics and voice acting, that could easily change, which is a concern for Nomura and Kitase I'm sure. It could easily swing in all sorts of ways. It's too early to start complaining.
As for the open world thing :
I don't really see the issue with this.
FFVII was not a seamless open world either. It was divided by zones.
Personally, I think this is superior to the ridiculous seamless open-world trend going on right now.
Giant, open seamless worlds take up tons of space and processing power, yet cannot deliver all that much content at the same time.
Segmenting the world into zones means that you can pack each zone full with much more content than your otherwise could.
Furthermore, using a load-technology like that of Rogue Galaxy, where interconnecting areas load in the back-ground while you play, you can literally create the illusion of one big world in either case, despite using zones.
Personally, I'd prefer this if it meant more fleshed out areas with more interactivity to the game-play, rather than one huge open world where most of it was just wilderness and mobs.
Now, granted I work with completely different limitations than SE, this is the over-world from my game -
http://imgur.com/0XSStUl
Each of the dots represents central location points for entry into a zone, but each zone is in and of itself a size-able map similar to the over-world map with, again, entry points to smaller more contained areas.
I see no problem with doing this in FFVIIR, and why it wouldn't be preferable to the open world approach.
Create a world-map similar to that of the original for Airship travel alone, and then when you land, there's a transition and the game simply loads the area with the co-ordinates that corresponds to where you landed on the world-map.
Have the world-map be divided into zones, and then simply have the game begin loading the new area preemptively once you get close to the border of the area you're in.
I can see them taking this approach - it wouldn't be strictly speaking open world - but it would be superior for handling the amount of content and the level of density that Nomura describes himself as wanting for this game.
FFVII was not a seamless open world either. It was divided by zones.
Personally, I think this is superior to the ridiculous seamless open-world trend going on right now.
Giant, open seamless worlds take up tons of space and processing power, yet cannot deliver all that much content at the same time.
Segmenting the world into zones means that you can pack each zone full with much more content than your otherwise could.
Furthermore, using a load-technology like that of Rogue Galaxy, where interconnecting areas load in the back-ground while you play, you can literally create the illusion of one big world in either case, despite using zones.
Personally, I'd prefer this if it meant more fleshed out areas with more interactivity to the game-play, rather than one huge open world where most of it was just wilderness and mobs.
Now, granted I work with completely different limitations than SE, this is the over-world from my game -
http://imgur.com/0XSStUl
Each of the dots represents central location points for entry into a zone, but each zone is in and of itself a size-able map similar to the over-world map with, again, entry points to smaller more contained areas.
I see no problem with doing this in FFVIIR, and why it wouldn't be preferable to the open world approach.
Create a world-map similar to that of the original for Airship travel alone, and then when you land, there's a transition and the game simply loads the area with the co-ordinates that corresponds to where you landed on the world-map.
Have the world-map be divided into zones, and then simply have the game begin loading the new area preemptively once you get close to the border of the area you're in.
I can see them taking this approach - it wouldn't be strictly speaking open world - but it would be superior for handling the amount of content and the level of density that Nomura describes himself as wanting for this game.
Ever heard of convergent evolution?
