Sephiroth, Genesis and Angeal

[Obsidian Fire]

The offical OG localization is... a constant headache... it's not so much... "wrong" in terms of grammar (which is probably why more people don't notice it)... It's just... off... in a lot of different ways and places in terms of tone. Oftentimes in the middle of very important discussions about world-building and lore concepts. Any one error by itself wouldn't have been a problem... It's just when it's happening on a very consistence basis that it gets annoying and... starts distorting how the work feels... or how the characterization feels...

It's also the source of a lot of the Ultimania "retcons". I've found... the JP and the Ultimanias agree on... just about all the major concepts when I go look up stuff in the JP OG script... It's where the English OG localization deviates from both where you find the most "retcons"...

I'm not going to say it's to the point where my gut reaction when someone brings out the OG script to prove a lore point is "let's go look up what the JP actually says"... but it's *really* close to that. Retranslating the OG script more literally has just paid off with increased lore clarity too many times to not do it at this point...

 

[Clement Rage]

Do we actually have any confirmed information on where Jenova was originally found by Gast?Was it in the crater at all?

The Northern Continent is a continent.That would be like saying 'search Antarctica'

 

[Obsidian Fire]

Do we actually have any confirmed information on where Jenova was originally found by Gast?Was it in the crater at all?

The Northern Continent is a continent.That would be like saying 'search Antarctica'

I'm honestly having a hard time finding this. At least in the OG Script, CC Script, CC Keywords, DC Keywords, 10th Anniversary Keywords, etc.. *Nothing* that I can find says *where* Jenova was found by Gast or *where* the Cetra sealed her. Just that she was found in a "2000 year old geological stratum"... aka a 2,000 year old rock layer (this is said several times over). Where this rock layer was in the world... no idea!

If anyone can show me where this is mentioned in an offical source I'd love to know... because after trying to find this... I think we don't *actually* know where Jenova was sealed by the Cetra or where she was found by Gast and Co. But so far... not in the Northern Crater is looking like a very good guess... and it also fixes some plot holes such as Shinra being surprised by what is in the Northern Crater in the OG....

And this is why "How do we know this information?" is never a stupid question to ask...

Related to this... what happens to a huge meteor of the likes that would cause something like the Northern Crater when it enters the atmosphere? It *does not* stick together... It *breaks up* and gets scattered around the general area. And now there's a life form on that meteor that can telepathically communicate with itself when it's body parts are scattered about and distance doesn't mean anything to it...

It's also never mentioned that Jenova came up out of the Northern Crater. She just shows up to mess with the Cetra that are trying to heal the Northern Crater and then *leaves* once they're all dead to mess with more Cetra tribes. And somehow ends up sealed at a later point in time by some other Cetra...

 

[Makoeyes987]

The Ultimania Omega of FFVII states Gast found Jenova in the Northern Crater.

**Jenova Relation 1: The Jenova Project** (005.1A)
Approximately 30 years ago, a plan to find "the Promised Land of abundant
mako" is set in motion by way of the Shin-Ra Science Department beginning a
project under Gast's direction. The purpose of the project was to
artificially produce someone with the abilities of the Ancients
(Cetra/-->P.214). Jenova, discovered in the Northern Crater, was incorrectly
identified as an Ancient, and its cells were to be injected into a normal
human with the expectation that they may artificially display the abilities of
the Cetra as a result.

Given that Weapon was created by the Planet to watch over Jenova despite it's incapacitation, it makes sense that they'd be sleeping in the general vicinity of where Jenova met it's end.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

I'm kind of amazed at how well hidden that piece of information is... Because that is legit the only place I've found that says that and it's from a 15+ translation that is *really* hard to find on the internet if you don't know exactly where to look for it...

 

[Clement Rage]

Wow, another Ultimania tidbit that causes serious problems for the existing lore.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

It actually doesn't. The location doesn't matter all that much. It's just that not knowing where Jenova was found doesn't *break* anything either.

We do know Jenova came to the Northern Crater from somewhere... and then left... and then the Cetra would have somehow sealed her there *somehow*.

 

[Clement Rage]

Does raise the question of Shinra not knowing what's in the crater despite having previously sent research teams there (and if Jenova became the central pillar of the Science dept, why wouldn't they go back looking for more of her?)

 

[Obsidian Fire]

We see them doing exactly that in CC! Twice even! Modeoheim is on an island right off the Northern Crater and was founded to be the site of a mako reactor. And then Zack is sent up to the Northern Crater to clear out the monsters and the Genesis Copies and the Wutaians *and* whatever the thing at the bottom of it is that's putting out tons of energy and making all the Shinra tech go bonkers. Oh, and all the high-level monsters that live there that are so powerful they need a SOLDIER 1st Class to get anywhere.

TLDR: the Northern Crater in CC is a frozen death trap.

It's also worth pointing out that even in the OG, the "Great Northern Cave" is *not* an impact crater... not really. Instead of being like... a scooped out bowl in the ground, it's more like a volcanic caldera omplete with a maze of a cave system. Only instead of being filled with magma, it's filled with mako.

Given how cave systems have multiple exits/entrances... it's not hard to think that Jenova was found in one location, Modeoheim was founded somewhere else and where Zack enters isn't in either of those two places... same thing with where the Weapons and Sephiroth's body are as well as the Whilwind maze.

Don't think this

think this....

 

[Clement Rage]

There is that... Okay, time to shelve my critics hat and try to make sense of this.

Spoiler: Remake

Prez' motivations differ from OG to remake. In the OG, he's basically after the Promised Land as a sideline because he's indulging his whims, whereas Remake Prez appears to put significant investment and stakes into this project. This would affect his actions regarding it. If remake Prez is sending a specialized unit all over the world, he's looking hard for this place, and what he's looking for is Mako. Fertilility is the means to find it, not the end.

Gast found Jenova in the crater, in an era predating Mako enhanced SOLDIER and probably mass produced materia and got out alive. He wasn't on his own, so someone else knew where he found it. Unless someone silenced them somehow, Shinra has this information. Either it didn't get to Prez, or he knows but for some reason decided not to act on it. People who might be willing to conceal this info may include Hojo and Ifalna.

I can't see the remote location or dangerous wildlife being such a concern, because that's true of every reactor site.

It's not like Prez automatically knows everything Shinra knows, but given that JENOVA is basically the pillar holding up the Science Dept, it seems unlikely he didn't take an interest in where she was found. It's a giant cave system, sure, but the giant columns of mako are hard to miss if you're in the area.

If he's looking for 'places with lots of Mako', the Crater is going to be high on the list. It may be that at the time of Gast's expedition, Shinra was still into Weapons and not Mako so much.

If Prez is authorising things like the Drum, then he's invested hard into JENOVA. I cannot see him not thoroughly exploring the surroundings of her discovery site, no matter how much money, time, or lives it took.

Heidegger, Scarlet and Rufus immediately react with 'holy crap, look at this place' as soon as they see the crater. The Highwind is presumably new tech, so the overhead view is not necessarily available to Gast or Prez, but they may have had helicopters. Counterpoint: The Whirlwind Maze is the Whirlwind Maze. Not easy to flyover?

OG Prez is looking for the Promised Land as a side project, which might work out.

But Remake Prez is putting hard time and effort into the search, so it's hard to see him not having comprehensively checked out the crater and environs. Counterpoint: We haven't seen remake North Cave, and probably won't until part 3.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

Even in the OG, the President was hard on the Promised Land, and *not* as a side project. Him looking for the Promised Land was why he okayed the Jenova Project to begin with... so a Cetra could make creating mako reactors easier and find the Promised Land for him...

And then the Jenova Project went sideways...

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I don't know to what extent it helps the discussion, but I checked the Ultimania Omega and the passage from which Mako quoted a translation uses the "Great Northern Cave" (北の洞窟) location designation rather than the "Northern Crater" (北のクレーター) or "Great Cave Crater" (大空洞火口) designations. We in the fandom tend to use it all interchangeably, but as Obsidian emphasized, there is a distinction that can prove relevant on rare occasions.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

It should also be pointed out that the "Northern Crater" has a very twisty cave system in the bottom of it leading down in the Planet. So... one name for the crater/impact region on the surface, one name for the cave system below it?

Both crater and cave system are also *really* huge... so there's still a fair bit of area one human sized body could have been found in...

 

[OlrunEclipes]

I would also throw it out there, but ut us only my opinion, and I'm going off the Japanese versions of the games, which are quite diffrent in dialog and so I feel closer represent the story, the English translations change the personality of ALOT of the characters. . First, in the theory that these were "living characters" the fight in the training room in one instance that got out of hand, but sephiroth mentions they would go there often, implying that the other times were not so extreme. Also it could totally be possible they were closer before, and what we witnessed it to be fair the beginning of a falling out, but ut is stated they are Rivals, and rivals make a complex friendship ?. Point 2, sephiroth leaving Shinra, aside from the fact he was raised there and it's literally all he knows (hell we have people who hate their small towns but never leave for the same reason) we also gave to remember that SOLDER was created for sephiroth because he actually is a "failed experiment " as at the time they still thought Jenova, and therefore he were ancients, but he couldn't talk to the planet, so they turned him into a weapon instead, remember he was 12 when he became a war hero. So what does thus ramble near cause I'm starting to loose track.. ah ya, Shinra... more specifically, Hojo, would never let a experiment leave voluntarily, if he tried, he'd probably end up in a tank. And as far as Shinra would ve concerned he's a property, not a person.
He may of not known all the details, but I doubt he didn't realize some of what nad2 him diffrent had to do with being a lab rat .
Anyway. Ramble over ?? sephiroth is one of my favorite characters in a game, but i admit i don't like how he, or Cloud for that matter, are portrayed in English. So much of their nuances are taken away.