Sephiroth: Unbeatable?

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
You should probably read other responses before posting first, since I don't feel like actually repeating myself over the same point that was stated before. :monster:

To be short, why would Sephiroth perpetually repeat the same mistake of not fighting at his full potential throughout FFVII continuity when he wants to win and thus make himself lose? It's an absurd conclusion based on what's been shown and stated about him.
 

Dark and Divine

Pro Adventurer
AKA
D&D
I think that Arianna was referring to the battle in AC.

In that case, Sephiroth was at his full potential. He just chose to fight using only his physical prowess and not his magical abilities.
 

Max Payne

Banned
AKA
Leon S. Kennedy,Terry Bogard, The Dark Knight, Dacon, John Marston, Teal'c
People think Sephiroth is pretty stupid, wow.
 

Dark and Divine

Pro Adventurer
AKA
D&D
It's not stupidity, imo.

Sephiroth only chose to fight Cloud in a more direct way.

For instance, if it was a battle against Avalanche, Sephiroth would probably use his magical abilities, since he would have to deal with several oppnents.

But Cloud was just one opponent, so fighting him with his physical prowess was the most direct way to face him.

And Sephiroth did gained the upper hand and he could have ended the fight, by delivering a fatal blow when Cloud was defenseless.

As for Sephiroth's final moments, i agree with the point you made earlier, Dacon, in that Sephiroth should use his magic to prevent his death, by paralyzing Cloud or something like that, but maybe Sephiroth was surprised and then overwhelmed by Omnislash V in a way that he couldn't gain enough concentration to pull something like that.


 

OWA-2

Pro Adventurer
[quote author=Dark and Divine link=topic=352.msg9161#msg9161 date=1232231009]As for Sephiroth's final moments, i agree with the point you made earlier, Dacon, in that Sephiroth should use his magic to prevent his death, by paralyzing Cloud or something like that, but maybe Sephiroth was surprised and then overwhelmed by Omnislash V in a way that he couldn't gain enough concentration to pull something like that.[/quote]

The creators already said Omni-V5 happened in an instant. That scene was in slow-motion.
Sephiroth didn't dodge because Cloud was too fast for him.
 

Dark and Divine

Pro Adventurer
AKA
D&D
[quote author=OWA-2 link=topic=352.msg9168#msg9168 date=1232244037]

The creators already said Omni-V5 happened in an instant. That scene was in slow-motion.
Sephiroth didn't dodge because Cloud was too fast for him.
[/quote]

Exactly, that was i trying to say when i said that Sephiroth was overwhelmed. It happened so fast that Sephiroth didn't have time to concentrate or even react in order to block the attack
 

Arianna

Holy, Personified
AKA
Katie; Seta.
I still say it's extreme arrogance that spurs him on... *shrug* He is human, too; sometimes, humans do stupid things when under extreme emotional duress.
 

ForceStealer

Double Growth
If he's human at all anymore its barely.

He knows he's been beaten before. He DEFINITELY gets cocky when he chooses not to kill Cloud instantly because he's certain he has him beat. But he wasn't fooling around the whole fight, he only gets overconfident at that one point because he absolutely hates Cloud and wants to, as he says, have the pleasure taking away everything he cares about.
 

An Unknown Man

Lv. 25 Adventurer
Did he really stab him in the chest in ACC? It looked to me like he just stabbed him in the shoulder again, but then lifted him up in the air instead of leaving him on the ground?

If we're going purely by the videos, he still stabs him in the shoulder.
 

An Unknown Man

Lv. 25 Adventurer
I forgot which one of the books said it, but their was commentary on Advent Children, and they said Sephiroth was far above Cloud's level and never exerted himself in the fight.
 

Masamune

Fiat Lux
AKA
Masa
[quote author=Alex The Southerner link=topic=352.msg12801#msg12801 date=1233401236]
I forgot which one of the books said it, but their was commentary on Advent Children, and they said Sephiroth was far above Cloud's level and never exerted himself in the fight.[/quote]

Nice try. We're not on Gamefags now. ;D

Sephiroth is made to look nonchalant, but that's 'cos he's all uber-godly 'n stuff.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
It's clearly in the chest, and in the director's commentary for AC, Nomura says he wanted the chest to be Sephiroth's target instead of a shoulder, but they wouldn't let him.

Now that he can have blood in it, they're going for the chest stab.




See? Does that look like a sword going through his shoulder, or his chest? Clearly he's been impaled through the chest.
 

Cthulhu

Administrator
AKA
Yop
He'd be hanging to the side if it was in the shoulder and the general laws of physics applied, but the latter doesn't, so it could be :monster:.
 

Tetsujin

he/they
AKA
Tets
Also, when he lifts Cloud up, you can see the blade in Cloud's chest at the bottom of the screen before it cuts to a close-up of Sephiroth's face.
 

Arianna

Holy, Personified
AKA
Katie; Seta.
[quote author=Masamune link=topic=352.msg12810#msg12810 date=1233408760]
[quote author=Alex The Southerner link=topic=352.msg12801#msg12801 date=1233401236]
I forgot which one of the books said it, but their was commentary on Advent Children, and they said Sephiroth was far above Cloud's level and never exerted himself in the fight.[/quote]

Nice try. We're not on Gamefags now. ;D

Sephiroth is made to look nonchalant, but that's 'cos he's all uber-godly 'n stuff.
[/quote]

So, Sephiroth was or was not exerting himself in that fight?
 

Tetsujin

he/they
AKA
Tets
Sephiroth's not human anymore so he doesn't show any signs of exertion even if he goes all over 9000 etc. :monster:
 

OneWingedDemon

NOT AMUSED
To be short, why would Sephiroth perpetually repeat the same mistake of not fighting at his full potential throughout FFVII continuity when he wants to win and thus make himself lose? It's an absurd conclusion based on what's been shown and stated about him.

He's not stupid, nor does he NOT want to win. It's that he thinks it's in the bag and Cloud surprised him. Bitch plz, he's a god. I do believe that when it comes to Cloud, Sephiroth tries hard to prove that he is a piece of shit compared to Seph. He was humiliated, taken down by a little boy who couldn't even make SOLDIER. I'm sure it hurt; hell, we're told it hurt. That's why he likes toying with Cloud, to brign him down. In part, that's what all that j00-mah-puppet shit is all about.

So I don't think it's totally unlikely that his anger, humiliation and pride would blind him when it comes to Cloud. It's not that he's stupid, it's that he gives in to that desire to make Cloud suffer and lick his boots and call him master that allows for a blindspot....and Cloud jumps on it.
He`s more concerned with making Cloud suffer and realize that he is forever below him, than actually killing him. He wants to take everythign from Cloud because Cloud took the only thing he had left, bitch - his pride and general greatness. That`s winning to him. Just killing cloud is nowhere near as satisfying. He's gonna torture him half to hell and back, then send him for another ride before he kills him.

Just saying here.
 

Super Mario

IT'S A ME!
AKA
Jesse McCree. I feel like a New Man
Like it or not, boys and girls, no matter how much you praise him with your fanboyishness or fangirl love, Sephiroth still lost. And thus is beatable in so many levels.
 

ForceStealer

Double Growth
[quote author=Tetsujin link=topic=352.msg12970#msg12970 date=1233444145]
Sephiroth's not human anymore so he doesn't show any signs of exertion even if he goes all over 9000 etc. :monster:
[/quote]

Precisely, he doesn't "exert" himself, by definition, but he is trying. He just doesn't need to breathe harder or sweat or anything. He doesn't even blink once during his appearance in the movie.
 

An Unknown Man

Lv. 25 Adventurer
Now we're just talking bullshit. Saying he didn't exert himself wasn't the only thing they said about that fight. They also said the fight was meant to show that Cloud was "atleast" having as much trouble with Sephiroth as Kadaj had with cloud. "Atleast." And we all know how that fight turned out.

It was also said Sephiroth's goal throughout that fight was simply to make Cloud suffer. As in prolonged agony. You know how if you were torturing someone, you wouldn't just kill them right a way, cause there would be no suffering.

Furthermore, that still doesn't look like he stabbed him in the heart to me. I don't see how you could tell that unless we see a front view of cloud instead of a dark silouette.

shoulderright.jpg


Going by that image, it's definitely not in the chest, because Sephiroth is looking straight at cloud, but his sword is to the right of him going at a slight angle out. If Sephiroth's looking right at Cloud, the sword should be aligned straight with the picture, cause Cloud's chest would be just below were Sephiroth is looking. It's not just that shot either, his sword's facing that direction throughout the entire scene of him picking him up. I also noticed cloud made the exact same face of pain that he did when he got stabbed in the shoulder, which is odd cause I figure you'd look a little different if you got stabbed in the heart.

Now if when the movie comes out, it is in the chest, that's fine, but it just doesn't look like that to me right now.

Did Nomura say he changed it in ACC, or that he just wanted to when they first made the original movie? I also don't see how blood's going to make a difference, it's not like they're going to have some big spray of it. There was blood in the original movie when he got stabbed in the shoulder.

 

Tetsujin

he/they
AKA
Tets
[quote author=Alex The Southerner link=topic=352.msg13077#msg13077 date=1233488522]Furthermore, that still doesn't look like he stabbed him in the heart to me. [/quote]

Who said something about the heart? That would've killed him instantly, obviously. =/
He stabs him in the middle of the chest.

PDVD_001.png
 

An Unknown Man

Lv. 25 Adventurer
Well that's stupid, if Sephiroth's trying as you're all arguing, why would he just aim for the middle of the chest and not the heart?

That doesn't sit well with your argument.

The next scene of him lifting cloud up screws with the first pic anyway.

 

Tetsujin

he/they
AKA
Tets
Oh for fuck's sake. Of course he wants to torture him but it's not like Cloud is so weak that Sephiroth can just fart into his general direction and Cloud will instantly fall, as many Seph fanboys might argue. That's what we're getting at.
He has to fight him with full force to even get to the point where Cloud just can't go on anymore and can't defend himself from the sexual assaults that will immediately follow. :monster:
 

ForceStealer

Double Growth
NO ONE has denied that Sephiroth didn't blow his victory in that moment when Cloud was at his mercy, what are you going on about? The point is that Sephiroth was trying until that point.

I don't know where you got the heart thing from, but he didn't stab Cloud in the heart because he didn't want him to die instantly but that is generally a mortal wound. See how long you last after having a sword shoved through your sternum.
 
Top Bottom