Sephiroth's Presence! And some interesting info on him [SPOILERS]

[Firstone33]

Okay so spoilers ahead from Maximilian Dood video and he mentioned a scene that blew my mind when he said it.

Spoiler

Sephiroth killed mother of cloud, according to what Max said sephiroth says to cloud during the aftermath of opening mission deal do you remember the flash of cold steel when it cut down your mother or something like that, so not only is square retconning certain parts of ffvii in remake they retcon that!

Cloud's mom died from heat stroke or something like that but this new deal of sephiroth killing her really intrigues me just gets me more excited for remake and also sephiroth appears to cloud several times in the sector reactor aftermath mocking cloud, there is apparently a scene he tells cloud you cannot save anyone cannot save aerith or himself.

This is clearly a foreshadowing to aerith's death, I just love hearing that info! Love it how they are subtly throwing hints and signs that sephiroth is a big threat by having appear early in story through supposed hallucinations cloud thinks he is having best part cloud starts having like PTSD of sorts Everytime these visions of sephiroth he thinks are not real.

That just shows how much of a threat sephiroth is man I just love it!! Go watch Maximilian dood's video on his impressions of ffvii remake he recently posted and just listen to what he says about sephiroth, never once in my life have I ever regretted being a sephiroth fan

 

[Makoeyes987]

Whoa whoa whoa. You might want to spoiler tag these plot reveals here. Not everyone has seen Max's summation of the Chapter. That's still unknown for most people.

I do agree that I find this reveal and change to the narrative fascinating and exciting. It adds another dimension of cruelty to Sephiroth, and exhibits the malice of his character. This new defining and cultivation of Sephiroth's personality makes him more than just the Big Bad of the plot, but also a more refined character and participant in the story's events. It'll be interesting to see what more they do with him.

 

[Firstone33]

Whoa whoa whoa. You might want to spoiler tag these plot reveals here. Not everyone has seen Max's summation of the Chapter. That's still unknown for most people.

I do agree that I find this reveal and change to the narrative fascinating and exciting. It adds another dimension of cruelty to Sephiroth, and exhibits the malice of his character. This new defining and cultivation of Sephiroth's personality makes him more than just the Big Bad of the plot, but also a more refined character and participant in the story's events. It'll be interesting to see what more they do with him.

Still new here in some way so I still not sure how to do certain things. Yes it does I love sephiroth out of all the ff villains he is number one.

How do I do it? To tag it as spoilers?

 

[Vortigern]

How do I do it? To tag it as spoilers?

 

[Firstone33]

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Thanks ?

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I don't see how this is a retcon? Sephiroth

Spoiler

murdered Cloud's mother in the original game as well.

 

[Firstone33]

I don't see how this is a retcon? Sephiroth

Spoiler

murdered Cloud's mother in the original game as well.

Spoiler

Well we do not know if he did kill her physically in remake he tells cloud that he killed her using Masamune but in original we do not know anything of how she died.

In original she likely died cause of the fire and buildings collapsing deal cause if I remember cloud tried getting in his house to get her but the flames were too great and he passed out, not saying you are wrong I am little rusty on facts with original have not played ffvii since 2002 nor read info on it I still know lots on it but it has been awhile

 

[oty]

Spoiler

if it is a retcon I suppose it's a very minor one. Seph could have just as well went inside the house and killed her.

 

[Ite]

Change dumb. Sephiroth dumb. I’d rather burn to death than see his ugly mug. Poor Claudia, she’s now a victim of the Compilation.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Spoiler

Had Cloud passed out while trying to get into his house, he would have died from smoke inhalation, if not from the flames themselves. Both Zangan and Zack were able to enter the houses long enough to check for survivors without succumbing to the heat.

The implication -- especially given his distance from the house -- is that Cloud was on the ground outside because he was injured by Sephiroth, and that the rest of the dead were also personally attended to by Sephiroth's sword. We know the photographer dude was killed in the courtyard. Tifa's dad was cut down with Sephiroth's sword as well, as was Tifa herself when she confronted him.

And though it's no longer canon, we see Sephiroth slaughtering villagers with his sword in the "Last Order" animation.

It was always my understanding that Seph killed her with his sword.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Spoiler: But...

.... She was already killed by him anyways!

We never saw Claudia died, since the OG never depicted it completely. But it was always due to Sephiroth, either due to the indiscriminate razing of the village, or him literally shivving her with his sword.

And wow, that's a really good observational point, @The Twilight Mexican , never thought of that.

I mean. In the end, he is a character. Sephiroth has a right to appear in his own game, doesn't he lol?

Like, it's already known it's gonna be different, new plot outline, storybeats order etc. So, what's wrong with a character being in their own story? There is a chance it might work out.

 

[Lex]

Spoiler

Had Cloud passed out while trying to get into his house, he would have died from smoke inhalation, if not from the flames themselves. Both Zangan and Zack were able to enter the houses long enough to check for survivors without succumbing to the heat.

The implication -- especially given his distance from the house -- is that Cloud was on the ground outside because he was injured by Sephiroth, and that the rest of the dead were also personally attended to by Sephiroth's sword. We know the photographer dude was killed in the courtyard. Tifa's dad was cut down with Sephiroth's sword as well, as was Tifa herself when she confronted him.

And though it's no longer canon, we see Sephiroth slaughtering villagers with his sword in the "Last Order" animation.

It was always my understanding that Seph killed her with his sword.

I said this yesterday but I don't remember where on the board lol.

Like,

Spoiler

even if it was never explicity stated he killed her directly, it's more than plausible. Also, this could just be Sephiroth taunting Cloud in his mind rather than an accurate depiction of what happened. She may still have burned to death in the fire even if he didn't kill her and he's just saying that to fuck with Cloud (or Cloud is inventing the idea during one of his mental breaks). There are a thousand ways for it to be plausible and still tally with OG canon so I don't get why people are considering it this huge retcon.

 

[Firstone33]

Change dumb. Sephiroth dumb. I’d rather burn to death than see his ugly mug. Poor Claudia, she’s now a victim of the Compilation.

Then why comment on this? If you don't like it then don't complain. If you want to complain about sephiroth like this do it somewhere else, I will not have this on my posts I understand people have their different opinions but there are things I do not like people saying and complaining about.

This thread should be respected is all I am saying

 

[Firstone33]

I said this yesterday but I don't remember where on the board lol.

Like,

Spoiler

even if it was never explicity stated he killed her directly, it's more than plausible. Also, this could just be Sephiroth taunting Cloud in his mind rather than an accurate depiction of what happened. She may still have burned to death in the fire even if he didn't kill her and he's just saying that to fuck with Cloud (or Cloud is inventing the idea during one of his mental breaks). There are a thousand ways for it to be plausible and still tally with OG canon so I don't get why people are considering it this huge retcon.

I think it is a retcon cause we never knew how she died and with remake saying sephiroth was the one who went and physically killed her himself is not o admit a big retcon but enough of one that now we at least may know how she died besides possibly smoke inhaling and such from the tires sephiroth created.

The only way to find out if it is true is see the full game, this thread I made is more or less just info I heard I just wanted to talk about it cause I found it very interesting how they implemented those things with sephiroth

 

[Firstone33]

Spoiler

Had Cloud passed out while trying to get into his house, he would have died from smoke inhalation, if not from the flames themselves. Both Zangan and Zack were able to enter the houses long enough to check for survivors without succumbing to the heat.

The implication -- especially given his distance from the house -- is that Cloud was on the ground outside because he was injured by Sephiroth, and that the rest of the dead were also personally attended to by Sephiroth's sword. We know the photographer dude was killed in the courtyard. Tifa's dad was cut down with Sephiroth's sword as well, as was Tifa herself when she confronted him.

And though it's no longer canon, we see Sephiroth slaughtering villagers with his sword in the "Last Order" animation.

It was always my understanding that Seph killed her with his sword.

True like I said I am little rusty on vii lore, it is likely he did kill her with Masamune like he killed others in the town but to me remake appearing to confirm he killed her is interesting fact that was really never mention in compilation of course the info I learned is from the mouth of a YouTuber who actually knows square and accurate inside info.

Not saying it is false but it is only heard info it can be true but seeing is believing so that info got me even more excited to see the full remake to confirm such info

 

[Firstone33]

This info is only by word of mouth by a YouTuber aka max dood though his info is usually correct this thread is more or less what I know and heard from him, I never saw the scenes he spoke of only what he tells his viewers so take what I say here with a grain of salt that it is not true until game is out even if this info is true

 

[Firstone33]

Spoiler: But...

.... She was already killed by him anyways!

We never saw Claudia died, since the OG never depicted it completely. But it was always due to Sephiroth, either due to the indiscriminate razing of the village, or him literally shivving her with his sword.

And wow, that's a really good observational point, @The Twilight Mexican , never thought of that.

I mean. In the end, he is a character. Sephiroth has a right to appear in his own game, doesn't he lol?

Like, it's already known it's gonna be different, new plot outline, storybeats order etc. So, what's wrong with a character being in their own story? There is a chance it might work out.

Bingo! I mean heck I admit that this info might not be true until I actually see it for myself for now the info is only spoken about never seen, it just to me seems true cause even if not mentioned in og we know sephiroth killed most of he villagers either through the fire he made or by his own hands

 

[hui43210]

Quick question, can you really call anything in this game a retcon? It's a new game 23 years later that's designed to stand completely on its own, only using the original as a guide. Complaining that it introduces Sephrioth earlier and other changes is like berating a bear for going in the woods.

 

[Kratos]

It is a good question as to whether anything in this can be considered a retcon. A retcon (retroactive continuity, remember) involves an explicit change to details after the fact that re-contextualizes the original story; as such, the term really only applies when considering several connected works, and the Remake has no connection to anything - it's standalone, not supplemental. I'm with hui - the term is irrelevant to the Remake.

As a thought experiment, though: if we take it as if it is supplemental information that can be applied to the original set of games, it may count as a retcon, depending how its impact on Cloud is portrayed. The event itself doesn't contradict past information, but we never got any sense that Cloud had that personal a beef with Sephiroth in the original. If we're supposed to take the death of his mom as a major motivating factor that was driving him and his actions, then I would argue that counts as a retcon; if it's just a detail that's been added, and it's the whole of the Nibelheim incident that drives him, then it's just filling in missing information.

(but I still don't think anything counts as a retcon in this)

 

[Firstone33]

It is a good question as to whether anything in this can be considered a retcon. A retcon (retroactive continuity, remember) involves an explicit change to details after the fact that re-contextualizes the original story; as such, the term really only applies when considering several connected works, and the Remake has no connection to anything - it's standalone, not supplemental. I'm with hui - the term is irrelevant to the Remake.

As a thought experiment, though: if we take it as if it is supplemental information that can be applied to the original set of games, it may count as a retcon, depending how its impact on Cloud is portrayed. The event itself doesn't contradict past information, but we never got any sense that Cloud had that personal a beef with Sephiroth in the original. If we're supposed to take the death of his mom as a major motivating factor that was driving him and his actions, then I would argue that counts as a retcon; if it's just a detail that's been added, and it's the whole of the Nibelheim incident that drives him, then it's just filling in missing information.

(but I still don't think anything counts as a retcon in this)

True what I meant by retcon is that they changed some events slightly like sephiroth cutting down cloud's mother cause in og we never knew that she had what we believed in the fire, remake is stand-alone but kitase confirmed that the compilation is indeed part of remake canonicity.

I am not saying I am right about this info on sephiroth but when it comes from the words of the guy who has worked for SE who had inside info from the company themselves is hard to prove false I did this not to prove anything I did it cause I want to know what others think of it with their own honest and respectful opinions nothing more nothing less

 

[Theozilla]

There’s an interesting video editorial that actually touches upon whether said additions can be considered retcons or not.