Seriously

[LicoriceAllsorts]

And here we are brought to this again. The problem with this idea that there are a "LOT" of members pissed about this that you people yourselves presented when one of us brought this stance was that "who are these people, what are their grievances? how can they have a stake in this if they are not willing to come forward'?

I'm not quite sure what you mean there, Dacon, but what I can say, speaking for myself as I watched this slow train wreck unfold, was not that I was unwilling to come forward, but that I was unwilling to add my spoon to a pot of shit that had already had too many cooks busy stirring in it. And believe me, I thought long and hard before posting even this much. Least said, soonest mended. I won't post again on this topic unless somebody directly asks me to do so.

 

[Max Payne]

Honestly, at this point unless you've been involved in this shit for the long run and have a stake in what going on what the fuck is even the point in getting involved? Why do you feel the need to interject yourself into something that doesn't affect you in any way and you can easily just skirt by? You dont have to read this and you dont have to get involved.

I don't understand this logic. I honestly didn't even want to get involved because look at how stupid people are being, HERP I DONT HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THIS BUT LET ME GET INVOLVED ANYWAY AND MAKE SHIT WORSE WITH MY SILLY COMMENTARY or HERP I'M SO FUCKING MAD IMMA TROLL THE BOARD AND MAKE SHIT WORSE(I love you guys but really? come on)

Shit's just ridiculous and I really just want to go away, because clearly I'm not helping and I just keep getting more and more upset over this whole deal.

I dont see the point.

 

[CK]

dw brent I made my two posts that contribute nothing to the discussion, i'll make no more and accept the infractions coming my way.

 

[Hisako]

And here we are brought to this again. The problem with this idea that there are a "LOT" of members pissed about this that you people yourselves presented when one of us brought this stance was that "who are these people, what are their grievances? how can they have a stake in this if they are not willing to come forward'?

Because of deterrents like you.

edit: highly inappropriate interlude.

So, dont get involved, and ignore it. That's a pretty simple thing to do. Why do you think I have totally ignored the FF XIII-2 thread? I hate that shit but I'm not gonna keep posting about how awful it is. Same with a lot of the clubs.

It is not hard to stay out of this shit, you people act like it's being forced right onto your pages.

Because suddenly fuckall is really happening anywhere else. Where the shit did all the activity go? Why are people dropping all this drama into the General Discussion section? What the fuck are these people talking about?

Don't expect to make this sort of thing public and then expect to have this decision-making process in a private vacuum. People have opinions on a public spectacle gosh.

 

[Ⓐaron]

You claim there's a "long history" of offences or some bullshit but what's the story on that? Is this about some kind of beef between staff and the mod in question?

Adri has had to be reprimanded several times for flaming and trolling as a member of staff. Administrators have specifically upbraided her about her conduct on at least two occasions that I was present for, and Mako refers to others that I don't remember. She refused to reform it. This is why the staff was already discussing removing her.

Most of this flaming and trolling occurred within the staff section itself, which is why most members don't know about it.

I am reasonably certain that Yop would have contacted her before removing her regardless of whether the leaks had occurred or not, specifically for the purpose of hearing her side of the story. That is, in fact, exactly what he did when he removed her even after it was revealed that she had leaked information. She was given a chance to post her side of the story, and then Yop decided to remove her.

Also, I thought we were done with this posting in closed threads bullshit, because we had all come to the conclusion that it was a bitch move.

In most cases I agree, posting in closed threads is fucking stupid. This is precisely why we added the "Nota Bene: Thread closed, quick reply disabled" message. However, when a member of staff says something flat-out wrong, it needs to be corrected so people don't go away from the discussion with mistaken impressions.

Staff attitude overall is shit. Serious issues come up and only one mod so far has been at all consistent with keeping it under control. The others apparently cba to weigh in at all, or only when they feeeeeel like it.

I've been afk for most of the day. I've been working, going to a friend's birthday party, and spending time with family. Plenty of other staff members have time commitments as well. If you are expecting immediate reactions from every member of staff about everything posted in every thread, you are being extremely unrealistic.

I fully agree, however, that some staff members have not been nearly as active in this as they should be, and I am going to contact them about it.

Also let's address the downright ridiculous attitude that you shouldn't be a member of staff if you don't get along with one person, regardless of how well qualified you are. This isn't a fucking club. If the person gets along very well with the userbase and can act civilly, then get over the butthurt and deal with the fact that not everyone can be your best friend.

No one has ever proposed that because two people "don't get along" one should not be a member of staff. It has been proposed that if candidates fucking despise people who are on staff, or vice versa, then personality clashes should be resolved before anyone is added onto staff. A large part of the current drama has resolved from personality clashes that no one on the boards ever bothered resolving. If they had been resolved (which they should have been years ago), none of this would ever have boiled up.

 

[Flintlock]

And here we are brought to this again. The problem with this idea that there are a "LOT" of members pissed about this that you people yourselves presented when one of us brought this stance was that "who are these people, what are their grievances? how can they have a stake in this if they are not willing to come forward'?

You dont have to read this and you dont have to get involved.

I was one of the people who was getting pissed off at all of this. You say that it's avoidable, but let's be honest here, it's not, short of leaving the forums altogether, but nobody should be made to do that. The drama has already spread across half a dozen threads, some of which have other, genuine purposes most of the time, like the Ruins Your Day thread. Even if I somehow managed to avoid it completely, somewhere down the line it is going to be brought up again (it seems like on this board, everything is), and when that happens, I would like to know the context. Being a part of the community means following things like this when they happen, unfortunately. I know I'm a new member and something of an outsider - which is why I have barely said anything, despite frequently wanting to - but if I don't follow this kind of thing at least a little, I'll always be an outsider. On top of that, considering a lot of the discussion has been about certain topics which people are sensitive about, isn't it important to know what those topics are?

You said yourself that you weren't sure if you wanted to hang around here much longer if things carry on as they do. I felt that way for the first time today. Outsider or not, I think that I have the right to try to do something about that so I can stay on a forum I have very quickly grown attached to.

 

[Sheva Alomar]

Aaron, WHO DESPISES YOU?

No one has the energy to do this.

 

[Ⓐaron]

Some people certainly give off that impression. I'm not going to name names though.

 

[Ⓐaron]

Note that I am depressed and have admitted that my perceptions of many things are probably not accurate, which is why I am open to outside resolution in nearly all cases. I'm not even certain that anyone who has been proposed for staff despises me. All I'm sayin' is, if people who are going to be added to staff have beef, it should be resolved before they join in order to minimise the potential of future drama.

 

[Hisako]

No one has ever proposed that because two people "don't get along" one should not be a member of staff. It has been proposed that if candidates fucking despise people who are on staff, or vice versa, then personality clashes should be resolved before anyone is added onto staff. A large part of the current drama has resolved from personality clashes that no one on the boards ever bothered resolving. If they had been resolved (which they should have been years ago), none of this would ever have boiled up.

I appreciate this sentiment, but as Celes and Rishi hav mentioned in the past, personality clashes are things that can't be 'fixed', really.

 

[Cookie Monster]

It has been proposed that if candidates fucking despise people who are on staff

Tbh, this is a gross misunderstanding, especially with the candidate in question.

 

[Madame Mayor]

At this point let's be honest. We already have been honest about Adri.

Don't pretend like it wasn't me who was mentioned as not being fit for staff because of issues that were made up solely off of me being honest in the staff misconduct/reviews threads.

I wasn't mad about it before. Confused, but now you say "It has been proposed that if candidates fucking despise people who are on staff, or vice versa, then personality clashes should be resolved before anyone is added onto staff". It makes me wonder if anything I said before mattered and if anything you said was honest. You said I was not a good candidate for staff. And you've now said that it wasn't because "two people don't get along", which is the most I would have called it.

Seriously Aaron, this isn't cool and I'm really disappointed.

 

[Hisako]

Note that I am depressed and have admitted that my perceptions of many things are probably not accurate, which is why I am open to outside resolution in nearly all cases. I'm not even certain that anyone who has been proposed for staff despises me. All I'm sayin' is, if people who are going to be added to staff have beef, it should be resolved before they join in order to minimise the potential of future drama.

Also, if you really are depressed, I personally think you should take a time-out from this sort of thing, as it seems that it's affecting your ability to handle this stuff and it's impacting negatively upon the members.

Chill out, guy!

 

[Ryushikaze]

At this point let's be honest. We already have been honest about Adri.

Don't pretend like it wasn't me who was mentioned as not being fit for staff because of issues that were made up solely off of me being honest in the staff misconduct/reviews threads.

I wasn't mad about it before. Confused, but now you say "It has been proposed that if candidates fucking despise people who are on staff, or vice versa, then personality clashes should be resolved before anyone is added onto staff". It makes me wonder if anything I said before mattered and if anything you said was honest. You said I was not a good candidate for staff. And you've now said that it wasn't because "two people don't get along", which is the most I would have called it.

Seriously Aaron, this isn't cool and I'm really disappointed.

Aaron was, I believe, simply trying to report what he had said, not what he currently thinks about the subject at the moment.

I will be on and respond more in full later. I am currently engaging in recording FFU commentaries.

 

[Max Payne]

Because of deterrents like you.

Did you just call me fucking metal gear?

Uh....Thanks?

Because suddenly fuckall is really happening anywhere else. Where the shit did all the activity go? Why are people dropping all this drama into the General Discussion section? What the fuck are these people talking about?

Make some activity elsewhere then. There's a pretty active movement for that.

Don't expect to make this sort of thing public and then expect to have this decision-making process in a private vacuum. People have opinions on a public spectacle gosh

The problem comes in when every tom dick and harry gets invovled, bitches and moans, slings insults anonymously, and generally doesn't know what the fuck is going on and exacerbates the situation. Especially when they wail and moan about these things and they have almost nothing to do with them. Just don't get involved? Make activity elsewhere.

This shit has hardly been taking place anywhere but a few GC threads and the feedback section. This isn't a public issue it's an issue between a few members and staff and everyone is being a fucking moron about it. My friends and all of these other people who just suddenly popped up and decided to get involved. It's ridiculous man.

I'm also going to thank your posts lol.

 

[Madame Mayor]

Tbh, this is a gross misunderstanding, especially with the candidate in question.

Gross exaggeration is what I'd call it.

Especially since after this was brought to my attention I went back through posts, searched for anything I would have ever said, to make sure that I didn't forget a time I could have said something like what he claimed. I came up with the staff reviews. That was it. And if that was taken as a personal attack rather than what it really was, well, I'm sorry I'm trying to be calm but I am seriously shocked at what I've been accused of.

Aaron was, I believe, simply trying to report what he had said

That's what's shocking. My original impression was that he was saying that I couldn't be on staff because we didn't get along. Now he's described it as "fucking despising" him, and that puts it in a different perspective for me, even if he has changed his mind.

 

[Ⓐaron]

At this point let's be honest. We already have been honest about Adri.

Don't pretend like it wasn't me who was mentioned as not being fit for staff because of issues that were made up solely off of me being honest in the staff misconduct/reviews threads.

Actually, you are not the only person that has been brought up as potentially having an issue with a member on staff. I do not believe the issue has been resolved yet, so I don't really want to comment on it until it's done with.

I wasn't mad about it before. Confused, but now you say "It has been proposed that if candidates fucking despise people who are on staff, or vice versa, then personality clashes should be resolved before anyone is added onto staff". It makes me wonder if anything I said before mattered and if anything you said was honest. You said I was not a good candidate for staff. And you've now said that it wasn't because "two people don't get along", which is the most I would have called it.

Seriously Aaron, this isn't cool and I'm really disappointed.

When I said "fucking despise" I was exaggerating out of stress. Sorry about that; that was a very ill-advised thing for me to say and I can easily see why it offended you.

I never thought you "fucking despised" me. I certainly don't think you even dislike me now; all those issues of mine have been cleared up thanks to your PM conversation with me. I never said you were a bad candidate because of any personal qualities either. I can't remember my exact words, but I was worried that if there was a personality clash between us, it would bring drama onto staff that could spiral out of control. Not because I don't have confidence in you, but because I don't have confidence in me. Maybe that means I should take a break until I can deal with these things better. The problem is, I really care about you guys, and I drive myself insane worrying about problems that have erupted on the boards when I know they exist. Suffice it to say, I don't have much resolve in this matter.

It doesn't help that a lot of staff members seem to have disappeared, either.

Maybe after this issue is finally put to bed in a satisfactory manner (assuming it can be), I will take a sabbatical for awhile until I feel more stable, though.

 

[Max Payne]

Due to talking to the folks involved, I've convinced folks should talk this out directly so we're not getting the board dragged into it anymore. We were all friends at some point so we should have enough respect to talk this out.

So this should prob get closed

 

[Ⓐaron]

Brent has asked me to close this, and I agree with him. A thread conversation probably isn't the best way to resolve such major issues. We're moving the discussion to MSN. Anyone who wants in, let him know. His MSN is dacon2000 at live dot etc.