Site Design

[Claymore]

I think the main thing here is that too much change will cause a riot. I'd probably pick one of the latter ones if I were setting up a new site, but here, we can't change too much.

And here is the main crux of our situation. This is what is constantly leading this into a circular argument, and why it doesn't feel like we're making any progress. I think we need to implement Flint's suggestion if we're to ever break out of this stalemate. Pose the questions to the community, see just how many users are for or against an upgrade, and more importantly, get specific feedback on these options. If we do change, then how much of a change are people willing to accept? What aspects must be preserved (i.e I can see that the Thanks hack gets mentioned a lot here), and what do we not mind losing? Or if we don't go for an upgrade, then what can we do to improve the current set up as it is? What plugins do we need and what can be done to improve overall interaction and readability?

All of us peaking into this thread can individually pick what we like or don't like, but we ultimately need to get some vast feedback from everyone if this change (if it is indeed a change) is going to happen.

 

[Lex]

I've advocated for updating the software based on the fact that it really needs updating, and that mobile browsing is an issue, but when we asked the community previously we got the equivalent of two or three people going "I BROWSE ON MOBILE AND IT'S NOT THAT BAD!" and then some others who went "SEE NO CHANGE REQUIRED *desperately hugs current forum in foetal position*" so I'm done pushing for new forum software.

If we want to be better, we need to approach it ruthlessly and IMO the same way people should be thinking about this FFVII remake. It's not going to be the same. It's going to be new, it's going to be different, and simply wanting a nicer looking version of what we already have is just making you an obstinate fossil, because the mechanics are outdated and need an upgrade.

IMO the only thing we need to make this a TLS forum is the history, the colour scheme, our logo and the cookie monster. Everything else is fair game. As long as we can have the same discussions in a nicer, more easily navigable environment we lose nothing and gain functionality.

 

[Flintlock]

I'm done pushing for new forum software.

Can I urge you to reconsider? I see the remake announcement as an opportunity to really get the best out of TLS, and to do that, we need to move on from the discussions we had before which didn't lead to anything. The same goes for everyone: the only excuse for not pushing for something right now is if you genuinely don't think it would be good for us.

 

[Lex]

Flint, I've been down this road before. When it comes to the forum software, I don't have any power. It really has to come from Yop for anything to actually be implemented.

The front page is a different beast and I'll never stop pushing there, we'll be changing that up pretty soon.

Forum wise I'll do anything I can to help and everyone is aware of my position and what I want to do, I just don't see how me repeating myself over and over to a chorus of "eh" is going to help anyone

 

[Flintlock]

Flint, I've been down this road before. When it comes to the forum software, I don't have any power. It really has to come from Yop for anything to actually be implemented.

Of course, but as Yop would no doubt admit himself, he needs a lot of pushing/reminding. The more people doing that the better.

The front page is a different beast and I'll never stop pushing there, we'll be changing that up pretty soon.

Forum wise I'll do anything I can to help and everyone is aware of my position and what I want to do, I just don't see how me repeating myself over and over to a chorus of "eh" is going to help anyone

Even though I'm on "team front page" as well, I don't want to see the forum stagnate while the front page is upgraded, since it's one of the most important parts of the site (and definitely the part we all visit the most), so I'll keep pushing on both fronts. If someone is put in charge of reviewing the situation, I think people will get behind them and you won't hear the a chorus of "eh". Again, don't be too influenced by past discussions.

 

[Ⓐaron]

If we can find another software that has an equivalent of the thanks hack and is as customisable as vBulletin is then I'll be fine with an upgrade. I don't really care if the forum looks different as long as those two features are there (although as long as it's customisable we should be able to include a lot of the graphics from the current edition of the forum, so it shouldn't end up looking too different). But if those features aren't there, it just won't feel like TLS anymore.

 

[Elessar]

And here is the main crux of our situation. This is what is constantly leading this into a circular argument, and why it doesn't feel like we're making any progress.

 

[Lex]

If we can find another software that has an equivalent of the thanks hack and is as customisable as vBulletin is then I'll be fine with an upgrade. I don't really care if the forum looks different as long as those two features are there (although as long as it's customisable we should be able to include a lot of the graphics from the current edition of the forum, so it shouldn't end up looking too different). But if those features aren't there, it just won't feel like TLS anymore.

I mean, you realise you're asking for an upgraded version of the same software, which we know doesn't really exist. Customisability is good, but what's the point if we're just going to make it exactly the same?

 

[Ⓐaron]

I'm not asking for it to be exactly the same, though, or even anything even close to that, really. Apart from those two features, I don't really care whether everything else on the current board is duplicated on the new software.

 

[Cthulhu]

That's just the thing - ANY forum software is going to be infinitely customizable, just as long as we have access to the source code. Then it's just a matter of work. In the case of the modern ones - Discourse and that other one - it's probably going to be a lot of work to get the style... sorta like what we have right now. I could dive into the source / customizability and do a review of stuff probably somewhere this weekend.

TBF I'm going to stand with my previous point though; too much change will put people off too much. Xenforo or whatever it's called is probably the safest bet.

 

[Ⓐaron]

Yes, Xenforo sounds like it might be well suited to our purposes.

 

[Teioh]

I thanked your post because I had come from a xenforo forum before joining up here and at the time I did like how similar the forums were to one another. Likes there are Thanks here.

The biggest differences I found were in the profile section where you can see all conversation participants without clicking 'View Conversation' like you do here (and other people can join in with the conversation, although you can turn this option off in settings if you like so that only people you follow can comment). Xenforo also has a trophy system which I'm not particularly fond of because if I recall correctly they were linked with rank/user title and the forum I visited had them for how many likes you received. I suppose here you can just make trophies for post count rather than how many likes someone gets.

 

[Lex]

Or we can get rid of the trophy shit. IIRC systems like that are commonplace on forums, it should just be a feature we can switch off.

 

[Cthulhu]

Yeah, I'm sure it's an optional feature. I know it is / was quite popular in the form of mods on vB installations though.

I do kinda like the idea of forum achievements though,

 

[Tetsujin]

By the way, shouldn't the site staff list on the frontpage be updated?

Would be helpful for media registration with E3, Gamescom and the likes when they wanna see your name listed somewhere.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

^^This please! I have the new page formated and everything, but there's no list of who should be on there!

 

[Lex]

OK for that page we don't need any sort of complex descriptions, and there's a lot of staff really so a nicely laid out variation of Name and Title would be good for each person. Four sections covering (in this order), Site Staff, Former Site Staff, Forum Staff, Former Forum Staff.

Site Staff

Yop: Owner
Lex: Site Director
Flintlock: Community Manager
Tetsujin: Final Fantasy Editor
Shademp: Compilation of FFVII Editor
LicoriceAllsorts: Fan Works Editor
Pixel: Graphic Design, TLS Audiobooks
Obs: Site Designer
AvecAloes: Editor
Dark and Divine: Author
Ryushikaze: Author
Forcestealer: Author
vaderSW1: Podcast Director

Former Site Staff

Fangu: Site Developer
TresDias: Author
Makoeyes987: Author
Jiro: Author
M.O.G.: Author
Tennyo: Author
Ravynne: Creative Designer.

PLEASE NOTE: I don't know where X falls on this list. He doesn't have an official site staff title and I don't know how involved he wants to be with it. He's an admin on the front site but so are seven other people and it's pointless to list them because we all have other titles. This would be a good time to weigh in X. You'll be listed as admin in forum staff also. For the record, I don't consider there to be an official "admin" position for the front page, even though a few of us hold that position in the backend.

Forum Staff (this is where I'm going to have trouble remembering everyone I think)

Admin: Tres, Yop, X-SOLDIER, Aaron
Super Mod: Carlie, Lex, MOG, Road (Cookie Monster)... drawing a blank, who else?
Section Mod: Ghost (Creativity)

Former Forum Staff: Half the fucking members at this point. Aaron's probably the best bet to populate this list. Off the top of my head, Mako (Admin), Hito (SMod), Mage (SMod), Tennyo (SMod), Tifabelle (SMod), Dacon (SMod), Force? Tets? I need help with this bit.

So anyway that's most of it. Remove anything that isn't the person's name and title and do whatever you think is going to look best. If we list "credentials" for every single person it'll never be finished. A name and title keeps the page looking clean and easy to read.

 

[Flintlock]

Perhaps we could omit former staff for the same of keeping the list short? I'm not trying to erase their contributions from the record or anything, but this is supposed to be a list of staff, not a complete history of TLS, and as you say, we have rather a lot of former staffers. That information is available on the forum for anyone interested.

We should also ask people to choose their canonical names (where it isn't clear), since we don't really want to be updating the list every time someone changes their name on the forum.

 

[Ⓐaron]

The former staff are mostly listed on the Staff Emeritus list in the "View Forum Leaders" page (the only forum staff member I can remember who opted out is Mage/Granny Weatherwax, though there may have been one or two more). I think the only current staff member you left off was Ryu.

 

[Lex]

BLAST. There's always one. How the fuck could I have forgotten Ryu, he's been forum staff since I joined XD.

Re: names, I agree with Flint about using the canon names. As for leaving off former staff, I'm OK with that as long as there's another place where their names can be read.

 

[X-SOLDIER]

I kinda feel like I was a catalyst that sparked everything into motion and then once things stabilized, I silently precipitated out of solution and just watched everything go. I've basically just popped in when things get a little nuts to restabilize things from time-to-time, but I don't know exactly what you'd call me aside from just a figurehead.

Because of that, with the remake hitting, I really am kinda just finding my feet and refamiliarizing myself with things around here insofar as the main site & FFVII-centric things are concerned, 'cause it sparks my want to do more again, and I know that for all the upcoming news and such I'll be pouring over it and I might as well put that to some good.

tl;dr - I'm here and I'm building up my activity but I've no idea what the title for my official site position should be.

Overseer?

X

 

[Tetsujin]

Executive Producer

Because that's a title that can mean basically mean whatever.

 

[Pixel]

Dont worry about listing me on there. Once the audiobooks are done, I'll be stepping down.

 

[Cthulhu]

Overseer?

Nothing wrong with Great Old One, . That goes for you too Pixel.

 

[Lex]

I kinda feel like I was a catalyst that sparked everything into motion and then once things stabilized, I silently precipitated out of solution and just watched everything go. I've basically just popped in when things get a little nuts to restabilize things from time-to-time, but I don't know exactly what you'd call me aside from just a figurehead.

Because of that, with the remake hitting, I really am kinda just finding my feet and refamiliarizing myself with things around here insofar as the main site & FFVII-centric things are concerned, 'cause it sparks my want to do more again, and I know that for all the upcoming news and such I'll be pouring over it and I might as well put that to some good.

tl;dr - I'm here and I'm building up my activity but I've no idea what the title for my official site position should be.

Overseer?

Editor seems appropriate in this context

Dont worry about listing me on there. Once the audiobooks are done, I'll be stepping down.

Right, so you'll be listed until you step down. Credit where it's due and all that