So confused......

RawrieStrife

Rawr - I <3 U !!!
Ok, people!!

Look, I've been reading lots of stuff about the LTD....
Love Triangle Debate, right?

Well, who the hell does Cloud end up with?!?!?!?

Aerith, Tifa...
who has the highest chance??

I am so damn confused...
Some say its Aerith..
Some say its Tifa.....

Can I have proof, links, websites, forums or your own opinion.....

At least shed some light for me..

Thanks! :))
 

Alex

alex is dead
AKA
Alex, Ashes, Pennywise, Bill Weasley, Jack's Smirking Revenge, Sterling Archer
Well, it raises some unfortunate implications if he 'ends up' with Aeris.

Work it out..
 

null

Mr. Thou
AKA
null
Well, it raises some unfortunate implications if he 'ends up' with Aeris.

Work it out..


I don't think it's a difficult decision.

mengsk.gif
 

RawrieStrife

Rawr - I <3 U !!!
And Aerith???

Is her spirit actually resting in peace or what???

Doesn't Aerith like Zack???
I mean, Zack from Crisis Core....?


So you say that Tifa and loud live happily ever after...
The End...??

It can't be THAT easy, right???


P.S. who's taking care of Aerith's flowers before it got destroyed...?? Cloud...??
He doesn't look like the flower guy to me
 

Son Goku

It's my stomach, I'm hungry.
AKA
mugennagama

RawrieStrife

Rawr - I <3 U !!!
ummm.... I don't want to look stupid or whatever but....

what is a "cannon"???

(Not the cannon as in the weapon...)


 

Alessa Gillespie

a letter to my future self
AKA
Sansa Stark, Sweet Bro, Feferi, tentacleTherapist, Nin, Aki, Catwoman, Shinjiro Aragaki, Terezi, Princess Bubblegum
And Aerith???

Is her spirit actually resting in peace or what???

Doesn't Aerith like Zack???
I mean, Zack from Crisis Core....?


So you say that Tifa and loud live happily ever after...
The End...??

It can't be THAT easy, right???


P.S. who's taking care of Aerith's flowers before it got destroyed...?? Cloud...??
He doesn't look like the flower guy to me
Aerith is a Cetra which means she needs to help people merge with the Lifestream.

Aerith does like Zack and likes Cloud for a while because he reminds her of Zack, but by the time her date rolls around she wants to get to know him for him.

Aerith gets killed, Cloud gets mako poisoning. Tifa stays with him to take care of him and they fall into the lifestream at some point. She helps him piece back together his true self. After this, the scene at the highwind occurs which confirms mutual feelings between the two.

During Case of Tifa he has a hard time handling his new life because of how well it's going and he doesn't feel he deserves it. At some point when he goes out to find a cure for Denzel's Geostigma, he contracts it himself and he spirals into depression and a need to know that Aerith forgives him for not being able to save her as well as his own guilt for Zack dying.
 

RawrieStrife

Rawr - I <3 U !!!
hmmmmm...

good point...
I'm in summer vacation after all...

Good night, people :)
So sleepy, its 2 am here


to do list for tomorrow:
go down to the creepy basement and get my old ps1, hoping it still works. Run like hell after closing the basement light, find the cd, lock myself in my room only to go down to eat ^^

Have a good day/night
 

Tennyo

Higher Further Faster
Oh lordie, another LTD thread?

But the other thread is getting kind of long, isn't it?

What do you guys think? Merge or lock the old one?

ummm.... I don't want to look stupid or whatever but....

what is a "cannon"???

(Not the cannon as in the weapon...)

Canon, not cannon. Canon is basically the real way a story goes. It is the truth, or at least the intended truth.

hmmmmm...

good point...
I'm in summer vacation after all...

Good night, people :)
So sleepy, its 2 am here


to do list for tomorrow:
go down to the creepy basement and get my old ps1, hoping it still works. Run like hell after closing the basement light, find the cd, lock myself in my room only to go down to eat ^^

Have a good day/night

You could also download it off the PSN if you have a PSP or PS3.
 

null

Mr. Thou
AKA
null
*losing, sweetheart

Also, Cloud wins huge. Two hot women he doesn't deserve at all.
 

Kikyou

just a fleeting memory
AKA
M-Mira, crackitlackin, Izaya Orihara, SAILOR NARU, Sharon Rainsworth, Mara, Brosuke Hanamura, Commissioner Gordon, Santa Claus, Lenneth Valkyrie

Raquelborn

"I slice your ass in 4."
AKA
Raq, Raquel.
I'm going to do the sad thing and post the official quotes:



"[Tifa] and Cloud came to realize their feelings for each other in the end of the story, and live together in AC and DC."

"She ventured into Lifestream together with Cloud. Amidst the course of him trying to ascertain his memories, they became aware of the thoughts/feelings which each other was holding."

"Thanks to Tifa, Cloud regains himself, and before the final battle with Sephiroth, without using words, he confirms with her that their feelings match."

"Apart from being Cloud&#8217;s childhood friend, [Tifa] is also the woman who understands him all too well and devotedly supports the mentally-weak side of him."

"Before leaving Nibelheim, Cloud declared that "I'll be a SOLDIER" to a village girl, Tifa, who he secretly fell in love with, and made a promise to protect her."



There's more but that's what I can find for now. They also have their own keyword, "Cloud and Tifa", in the Crisis Core Ultimania.

:monstereat:
 

Dashell

SMILE!
AKA
Sonique, Quexinos, Pinkie Pie, Derpy Hooves
Let me point out a few quotes for you:
------------------------------------
(FFVIIUO, pg. 15)
最終決戦を前に一時解散を宣言し、飛空艇に残ったティファと想いを通わせる。

"Declares that the team should dissolve in the final hours before the final battle, and communicates his feelings together with Tifa, who remains behind at the airship with him."


(FFVIIUO, pg. 27)
クラウドの提案で一時解散することになるが、飛空艇に残り、クラウドと想いを通わせる。

"When Cloud proposes that the group separates temporarily, she remains behind at the airship and communicates her feelings together with Cloud. "


(FFVIIUO, pg. 27)
ティファのクラウドに対する好感度が高い場合、飛空艇に残ったふたりは、互いを求める気持ちを 確かめ合う。

"If Tifa's affection regarding Cloud is high, when the two stay behind at the airship, they will confirm that their feelings of desire/wanting for one another match."


(FFVIIUO, pg. 198)
大切な人の待つ場所へと仲間が散っていき、ふたりきりになたクラドとティファ。残された最後の時間でお互い の想いを打ち明け、そして……。

"When their companions disperse to the places where people important to them await, Cloud and Tifa are the only two to remain behind. They reveal their mutual feelings in their final hours, and......."


(CCU, pg. 33)
クラウドとは物語の終盤に想いを通わせ、「AC」「DC」の時代は一緒に暮らしている。

"She communicates her feelings together with Cloud in the final stages of the story, and in AC and DC they live together."


(FFVII 10th AU, pg. 118; pg. 120 in the Revised Edition)
残ったクラウドとティファは、互いへの想いを打ち明け、確かめ合う。

"Cloud and Tifa, who remain, reveal their feelings for each other and confirm them to match."


(U20 Scenario, pg. 232; main body of story summary)
そして、ふたり、きりになったクラウドとティファは、残された最後の時間で互いの想いを打ち明 け合う。

"And when Cloud and Tifa remain behind alone, in their final hours, they disclose that their feelings for each other match."


(U20 Scenario, pg. 394)
「VII」最終決戦前夜に
ティファのおかげで自分を取り戻したクラウドはセフィロスとの最後の戦いを前に言葉では伝えられない想いを 彼女と確かめ合う

"VII - The night before the final battle
Thanks to Tifa, Cloud regains himself, and before the final battle with Sephiroth, without using words, he confirms with her that their feelings match."




And for good measure, everything else that's ever been said about the scene:

(FFVIIUO, pg. 27; complete entry)
クラウドの提案で一時解散することになるが、飛空艇に残り、クラウドと想いを通わせる。翌朝、もどってきた 仲間とともに北の大空洞へ発つ*

「想いをつたえられるのは言葉だけじゃないよ……」
ーふたりきりになり、言葉に詰まるクラウドに

ティファのクラウドに対する好感度が高い場合、飛空艇に残ったふたりは、互いを求める気持ちを確かめ合う。 このセリフは、そんな会話の最後にティファが口にするもの。告げ た直後にティファが浮かべる、すべてを受けいれるような微笑みが印象的だ。

*最後の戦りへの決意を固めたDISC 3でも、内心の恐怖を抑え切れないティファ。飛空艇の操縦室でクラウドが話しかけると、「『だいじょうぶ』って言って?」と頼んでくる。心細げだがどこか甘えたふうなティファと、「だいじょうぶ」と答えたときのクラウドの様子が、いかにも心を通わせたふたりらしく、微笑ましい。ちなみに、ここでのふたりのやり取りは、 以前ティファが弱気になったときにもらしたセリフ(P.26の一番下で引用したもの)がもとになっている。

"When Cloud proposes that the group separates temporarily, she remains behind at the airship and communicates her feelings together with Cloud. The next morning, she departs for the Northern Crater along with her companions, who returned.

'Words aren't the only thing that tell people what you're thinking......'
-Said to Cloud, when he is at a loss for words while they're alone

If Tifa's affection regarding Cloud is high, when the two stay behind at the airship, they will confirm their matching feelings of desire/wanting to one another. This line is said by Tifa at the conversation's end. Immediately after saying it, Tifa forms a striking smile that summarizes everything."


(FFVIIUO, pg. 39)
ユフィは知らないが、直前にクラウドはティファとふたりきりの夜を過ごしたばかり。さすが、女のカンは鋭い ?

"Yuffie is unaware that Cloud and Tifa had just spent the night together. Woman's intuition is as perceptive as ever, no?"


(FFVIIUO, pg. 198)
決戦前夜に……
宝条の暴走を止めてから大空洞へ突入するまでにくり広げられるティファとの会話場面は、ティファの好感度によって分岐する。好感度が低いと、ふたりで夜を明かす場面の会話が淡白で短め。翌朝の操縦室の場面では、ティファが「聞いてたの?」と言ってつま先をトントンとする。一方、好感度が高いと、ふたりで夜を明かす場面 の会話が濃く、操縦室ではティファが「見てたの?」と恥ずかしがってへたりこむのだ。

"Night before the final battle......
After stopping Hojo's recklessness and before heading to the Northern Crater, the conversation scene with Tifa can diverge drastically depending on Tifa's affection rating. When the affection rating is low, the conversation scene where the two spend the evening is candid and rather short. In the scene on the bridge the next morning, Tifa asks 'Were you listening?' and taps her foot. On the other hand, if the affection rating is high, the two spend the evening in focused conversation, and on the bridge, Tifa asks 'Were you watching?' and collapses in embarassment."


(FFVIIUO, pg. 201)
最終決戦を前に……
クラウドとティファが草原で夜を明かし、飛空艇で仲間たちと合流するまでの会話は、ティファの好感度によっ て変化する。好感度が高いと、クラウドとティファの互いを想う気 持ちがセリフに強く表れるのだ。

[Screenshot caption]
飛空艇にもどったユフィは、クラウドたちの会話内容にかかわらず「クラウドやさしいねえ。なんかあった?」 と話す。

"Before the final battle......
Variations determined by Tifa's affection rating apply from the beginning of the evening with Cloud and Tifa on the grassland until the conversation where they reunite with their companions on the airship. If the affection rating is high, Cloud and Tifa convey their feelings in powerful lines.

[Screenshot caption]
Upon returning to the airship, Yuffie will say 'Gee, Cloud...... that's so nice of you to say that. ......You sick?' regardless of the contents of the conversation of Cloud's conversation."


(FFVII 10th AU, pg. 9; both editions)
北瀬 決戦前夜の飛空艇でのエベントも加藤さんですよね。
野島 ああ、きわどいセリフがあるところですか?あれを書いたのも、僕ではなくて加藤さんです 。
ーー「想いをつたえられるのは、言葉だけじゃないよ」というセリフですね。『FF』としては、かなり大人っ ぽい会話でした。
北瀬 それでも、あまりにもどぎつい表現は抑えてもらった覚えがありますね。
野島 当初のアイデアは、もっと過激でしたから。飛空艇のなかにあるチョコボ部屋からクラウドが先に出てきて、そのあとティファが周囲をうかがいながら出てくるっていう案だったんですけど、それはさすがに北瀬さんが却卜下してました。でも、問題のセリフしても、当時はそんなに重要なことだと誰も思ってなかったのもしれ ない(笑)。

(Translation from the frontpage article on this)
Kitase: Katou also did the event on the airship, the night before the final battle.
Nojima: Oh, the scene with the risqué line of dialogue? It was Katou who wrote that as well, not me.
- The line “Words aren’t the only way to talk someone how you feel,” right? That was quite a mature conversation for a FF game.
Kitase: But I remember having to get another version that was too intense toned down.
Nojima: The original idea was more extreme. The plan was to have Cloud walk out of the Chocobo stable on board the Highwind, followed by Tifa leaving while checking around, but Kitase turned it down. But even with the line in question, maybe at that time none of us thought it would be something so important (laughs).


(U20 Scenario, margin of pg. 232)
分岐
決戦前の会話は2種粨ある
決戦前にクラウドとティファが交わす会話の内容は、ティファの好感度によって変わる。好感度が高いと、ふたりの会話が、お互いを強く思いやるような深い内容になるのだ。また、ふたりの樣子を仲間たちが見ていたことが翌朝発覚し、ティファが照れる場面では、好感度の高いときのほうが、彼女の照れかたが大きい 。

"Deviation
2 versions of the conversation before the final battle
Prior to the final battle, the contents of the conversation between Cloud and Tifa can change depending on the degree of Tifa's affection. If the degree of affection is high, the contents of the two's conversation will involve deep subject matter and strong feelings for each other. As well, the sight of the two seen by their companions the next morning will lead to an embarassing scene for Tifa, and she blushes greatly."


(FFVII International Memorial Album, pp. 241-242)
[Script of high affection version of the Highwind scene the only one included in script of the game]


(U20 Scenario, pg. 199)
[Script of high affection version of the Highwind scene included as one of four "Impressive Scenes" selected to represent the game at the beginning of its section of the book]
------------------------------------

What's their comment on Cloud and Aerith you ask?
Nojima on Case of Tifa said:
“Case of Tifa … first, there’s the premise that things aren’t going well between Tifa and Cloud, and that even without Geostigma and Sephiroth, it would still be the same. I don’t mean to get into my views on romantic love, marriage and family. (laughs) After ACC, maybe Denzel and Marlene can get them to. Perhaps things would have gone well with Aerith, but Aerith’s responsibility is big, I think.”
That doesn't sound too sure for me.

Alot of people say "But but he thought about Aerith mostly in Ac, so he must love her!" Why does someone wanting forgiveness from someone mean true love? He wanted forgiveness from Zack too.

Aerith's profile 10th anniversary Ultimania said:
Two years after returning to the planet, Aerith still lives on in the hearts of her friends who saved the planet. And in particular to Cloud, as a symbol of his failure to having being unable protect those dear to him
Those dear to him = more than one.

Dissidia Ultimania said:
“If I win, are my sins forgiven?” — Cloud: battling against Cloud.

Cloud continued to regret the deaths of his best friend and comrade, who were dear to him, in FFVII. In AC, he says “I want to be forgiven.”
Once again, plural. It also says "best friend and comrade" not "Best friend and true love"

Again this is all the creator's statements not just stuff I'm guessing on. Really if there's one thing they've been unclear about, who Cloud loves isn't it.
 
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Dashell

SMILE!
AKA
Sonique, Quexinos, Pinkie Pie, Derpy Hooves
Just some more on the issue if you're still unsure:

Clerith point 1: There's two versions of the Highwind Scene, neither is canon.

Baloney. There are plenty of FFVII scenes that have canon outcomes such as Vincent and Yuffie joining. Just because something has optional outcomes does NOT mean it doesn't have a canon version. FFX-2 had three possible endings, and one was canon.

And no less than 8 quotes have said they share their feelings under the highwind. Most of them don't even have a "if Tifa's blah blah is high than blah blah" they just outright state "They share their feelings for one another under the highwind."

Clerith point 2: But it could still be talking about either version though. In the low affection scene they could have shared feelings of friendship or support!

First off there's a quote that says they don't share feelings in the low affection version:

page198 said:
"When it gets low, the conversation in the scene that they spend the night will be apathetic and ends short. Next morning in the cockpit, Tifa says &#8220;Were you listening?&#8221; and stamps on tiptoe.

Do you know what Apathetic means? It means they showed no emotion. Therefore they did NOT share feelings in the low affection version. If these quotes say they share feelings, and they did NOT share feelings in the low affection version, they must be speaking of the high affection version, ergo, it's canon. These many quotes say they DO share feelings without specifying a version:

FFVIIUO said:
"When their companions disperse to the places where people important to them await, Cloud and Tifa are the only two to remain behind. They reveal their mutual feelings in their final hours, and......."

CCU said:
"She communicates her feelings together with Cloud in the final stages of the story, and in AC and DC they live together."

Another translation:

"She and Cloud came to realize their feelings for each other in the end of the story, and live together in AC and DC."

FFVII 10th AU said:
"Cloud and Tifa, who remain, reveal their feelings for each other and confirm them to match."

U20 Scenario said:
"And when Cloud and Tifa remain behind alone, in their final hours, they disclose that their feelings for each other match."

Clerith: The quotes still just say "feelings" though. They can be any kind of feelings. It doesn't have to be love.

Two sources have stated that these feelings are of mutual love and or desire:
FFVIIUO said:
"If Tifa's affection regarding Cloud is high, when the two stay behind at the airship, they will confirm that their feelings of desire/wanting for one another match."

This next one was on a page entitled "The One That I Love" which used the Japanese term "renai" which is romantic love, so don't throw any of that "it could be friendship type love" nonsense at me. It was on a page of the Final Fantasy couples realizing when they loved one another. It says absolutely NOTHING about Cloud and Aerith but does say this about Cloud and Tifa:

U20 Scenario said:
"VII - The night before the final battle
Thanks to Tifa, Cloud regains himself, and before the final battle with Sephiroth, without using words, he confirms with her that their feelings match."

Clerith point 3: Those are only talking about the High affection version though!

Yes and as we've established, the only time they share feelings is in the high affection version. Therefore the other quotes that do not have an "If this" or "If that" are talking about the High Affection scene. Because there are many quotes that don't have an "if this" and "if that" we know the feelings they're talking about are love and that them confirming their feelings of love is canon.

Also on the page about Renai, notice it does not specify a version yet is still listed among the canon couples of FF. Don't believe me?
http://thelifestream.net/final-fant...rsary-ultimania-for-the-one-i-love/#more-6162

Clerith point 4 That page clearly shows Cloud and Aerith. This means either couple can be canon.

Only if you can't read. The text under Cloud and Aerith says there's 4 possible outcomes of that scene and mentions NOTHING about Cloud and Aerith being a couple.

Clerith point 5 It STILL shows both couples. If they were making Cloti canon, they'd have shown the Tifa date scene!

Explain to me how showing their image, but saying nothing of them being a couple is the same thing as showing Cloud and Tifa and saying they realize their feelings of romantic love along with like 8 other quotes?

Clerith point 6 Because it shows Aerith!

Oi!

Clerith point 7 Okay fine, well on the page that the Highwind scene links to, it states that feelings are only shared in the High Affection scene!

That's right, that's what it says. And on the page that links to the date page it STILL says nothing about Cloud and Aerith being a couple. It says there's 4 possible outcomes. The page about Cloud and Tifa ONLY talks about the High affection scene and says they only share feelings in that scene. And when we combine that with points 2 and 3, anyone can clearly see what the answer is.

Clerith point 8 If they were a couple, why didn't they kiss or hug?

uh.. neither did Cloud or Aerith, you realize that right?


So yeah that's the way it is. Cloti is canon, it's done, over, finished. It's been done for years. I'd like to end with a quote from Bucky O Hare. "You can try to delude yourself, but reality is reality." and that's really all there is to it.
 
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Raquelborn

"I slice your ass in 4."
AKA
Raq, Raquel.
Holy cow. I haven't read half of those quotes before, Quex. Like the ones from the UO.

Good going. :bmonster:
 

Cat Rage Room

Great Old One
AKA
Mog
she's on fire

and she burns through the night at the speed of light

she's on fire

with the heat of the beat right beneath her feet

she's on fire

and the name of the game is to fuel her flame

she's on fire
fiya
fiya
fiya
fiya
 
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