So who can see Aerith and when and why and stuff?

ChipNoir

Pro Adventurer
Was it MatPat that came up with the fanon theory that being a cetra is more a spiritual thing than a genetic thing, and anyone could become one if they're open to the planet?

I like that headcanon idea, and embrace it as an explaination for Aerith's abilities to connect with children. Children are closest to nature in a lot of popular fiction.
 

Roger

He/him
AKA
Minato
Being able to be open to the cries of the Planet might be a spiritual thing that humans are capable of but being a Cetra is not.
 

ChipNoir

Pro Adventurer
Why not? The literature we know if itself says that people essentially choose to stop being Cetra in the first place, and that's what created humans. It's not like there was an implication that humans were an opposing subpecies ala Cromagnum vs Neanderthal.
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
Yeah, just look at Bugenhagen. Dude has become as close to a Cetra as anyone who isn't, and he's somewhere between Aerith and the other members of AVALANCHE in terms of affinity with the planet.

Aerith can more or less fluently understand the planet's cries. The other members of AVALANCHE learn to perceive the sound. Bugenhagen is at the point he can actually make some of it out and hear what old spirits are trying to say. It's clearly a heritage that can be reclaimed.

It was either GameTheory or FFPeasant. One of those two channels.
I don't even know for sure that I came up with it first, but I highly doubt either of them did.
 

Roger

He/him
AKA
Minato
Yeah, just look at Bugenhagen. Dude has become as close to a Cetra as anyone who isn't, and he's somewhere between Aerith and the other members of AVALANCHE in terms of affinity with the planet.

Aerith can more or less fluently understand the planet's cries. The other members of AVALANCHE learn to perceive the sound. Bugenhagen is at the point he can actually make some of it out and hear what old spirits are trying to say. It's clearly a heritage that can be reclaimed.


I don't even know for sure that I came up with it first, but I highly doubt either of them did.

Yeah, but after all that time, he's not Aerith. Aerith was one of many children that grew in Shinra and unlike anyone in Midgar was able to innately hear the cries of the Planet. It's either a humongous coincidence that the person they identified as a Cetra based on her birth has her abilities or they weren't wrong to look at Aerith based on her parentage.
 

ChipNoir

Pro Adventurer
Yeah, but after all that time, he's not Aerith. Aerith was one of many children that grew in Shinra and unlike anyone in Midgar was able to innately hear the cries of the Planet. It's either a humongous coincidence that the person they identified as a Cetra based on her birth has her abilities or they weren't wrong to look at Aerith based on her parentage.

She did have the first 5-6 years in the care of her mother, albeit in mutual captivity in ShinRa labs. So that's enough time to install cetra knowledge in her, and continue on from the afterlife.
 

Roger

He/him
AKA
Minato
I don't get the impression that Aerith or Ifalna could just teach someone for a few years and then they'd be one of the last surviving Cetra too. It's not just a question of knowledge. Sephiroth absorbed thousands of years of knowledge of the Ancients, it didn't make him one.
 

ChipNoir

Pro Adventurer
Well according to this theory it's about being open to it. Sephiroth was still very wrong-minded about what the Cetra really stood for.
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
Yeah, Sephiroth didn't try putting any of it into practice. What about someone who would? What is culture if not knowledge of something+practice of it?

Aerith and Bugenhagen are our best references for analysis here. In her case because she at least got her mother's teachings for those first seven years. There was still some "culture shock" for her at the Temple of the Ancients, though, and it took her a little while to get in tune with everything. Had she always grown up with her mother, it's harder to imagine Aerith having the difficulty she did and needing that additional time to decipher and understand the spirits at the temple.

It's also relevant where a discussion of Cetra-as-culture is concerned that Red XIII comments that the temple smells like Cosmo Canyon. We're being told something here.

So yes, sure there's a biological component to being Cetra, as there is going to be in any race of people over centuries, including in the real world. It's also a cultural thing, though.

I've used this comparison before: there's multiple legitimate notions of being Jewish, as they're an ethnoreligious group. It isn't necessary for all components to be true in order for one to be.

There's being Jewish ethnically. There's being Jewish religiously. There's having Jewish traditions and/or customs without necessarily being religious.

It does seem readily apparent that having the ethnicity angle down makes it easier to get in tune with the planet and understand the Cetra spirits, but we also see it openly demonstrated that with enough of the cultural knowledge and/or practice angle, the transition can be made.

Have a few generations of Bugenhagens, I wager you've got new Cetra.
 

ChipNoir

Pro Adventurer
Indeed. "Cetra" Seems to be defined by action, not by blood quantom. Their job was the settle the planet (read: deal with any lifestream eruptions or infections?). They developed the ability to communicate with the planet to fulfill this job. When some of their numbers settled, or at least were driven away from the obligation to hide from JENOVA monsters, they lost that ability. I'd wager because they no longer put the teaching into practice.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
You know who else were close to the planet, had teachings regarding reading spirit energy and passed said teachings through their culture so that they could understand the planet and manipulate said energy?

The Guado :desu:

Just another interesting parallel. Especially when they could tell by scent things regarding the planet too. *runs away*
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
Their job was the settle the planet (read: deal with any lifestream eruptions or infections?).
So, the Japanese verb here (開く) is the same as the one translated as "unlock" in Aerith's line from the Shin-Ra building, "The Cetra were born from the Planet, speak with the Planet, and unlock the Planet."

"Opening" or "unlocking" the planet is kind of vague, but I take it to mean something perhaps almost like "cultivate" here -- in other words, Cetra tribes traveling around the planet, guiding the Lifestream to new spots on the surface so that the world would abound with more and more life.

At the very least, we know developing the land in such a way was part of their effort to provide the planet with the energy to heal itself after Jenova's meteor crashed.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
I mean, the fact the Cetra could "unlock" the planet, speak to the planet, and read the planet were the reasons why the Shinra Company made it priority 1 to capture Ifalna and Aerith for their plans to create "Neo-Midgar" and find more abundant sites of mako to increase their profits.

It's why Shinra funded Bugenhagen's research and Dr. Gast's research in understanding The Ancients and just what exactly Jenova was.

There was a very real, and profit driven motive for having the power of the Cetra on their side.

And if you want an glimpse of how those powers of the Cetra could be utilized... I only bring up FFX because of it's intentional thematic parallel.

The Guado were the race on Spira who were closest to the Farplane and truly understood Spira's pyreflies. They were able to read, manipulate (this is clearly seen when Seymour's henchmen and Seymour himself would mold pyreflies into fiends to attack Yuna and co.) and protect the spirit energy of the Farplane. When the Guado lost standing amongst Spira due to supporting the mad machinations of Seymour Guado, they were driven from Guadosalam and cut off from watching and protecting the Farplane.

And it was around this time when the Farplane became unstable.

The Guado and Cetra were both people who were capable of sensing the dead, and communicating with them. Aerith was able to see Elmyra's dead husband and hear the cries of dead souls from the Lifestream. The Guado were able to sense and smell the dead as Unsent. Numerous times, the Cetra and the Guado were capable of using their abilities to communicate with the spirit energy of the planet.

And the Cetra and Guado were capable of communicating with the living from beyond the grave as well.

Jyscal Guado manifested himself as a spirit from the Farplane and even created a convenient sphere to tell the whole truth of who murdered him!

The long dead guardians of the Temple of The Ancients remained within said temple to stay behind and guard its rooms, to the point they lost their abilities to speak, and everything else mortals take for granted. They were Unsent, in a manner of speaking.

And of course...Aerith herself was able to maintain her consciousness after death death, rally the Lifestream to help Holy stop Meteor, leave fucking voicemails from beyond the grave on Cloud's cell phone, talk to Cloud and Marlene from beyond, and finally cure an incurable disease inflicted by Sephiroth upon the population of Gaia. This is of course not even counting the unexplained sightings of Aerith by children that would happen at her church during FFVII, and of course the sighting of her that would occur right in front of the player.

And you know who else was able to do so many marvelous things despite being dead?

Seymour Guado. :mon:

Aerith, for all intents and purposes, was a benevolent, Psuedo-Unsent. She can screw the planetary rules of death and recycling by willpower alone. Not to the extent of Sephiroth but very close. Because of her Cetra existence.

There are some very striking and obvious parallels between the Guado and Cetra. I don't think it's coincidence. The Guado are probably the closest hint at what the Cetra might have done or been like on Gaia before they were nearly wiped out by Jenova's arrival on the planet.

No, I don't mean that the Guado are descendants of the Cetra or anything like that. But they're similar. Very similar.
 

Lex

Administrator
Slight tangent to the current discussion but I've been thinking a lot again recently (I seem to go through cycles) about how criminal it is we don't have more info on the Cetra. I see the appeal in leaving the "mythology" of them a slight mystery but having just finished the English translation of the Turks novel and remembering that it's actually pretty good, I'd love to see the story of the original calamity told in a similar format (officially). It's so ripe for a truly original story set in the FFVII universe.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
You tell the story about it, you kill the magic. :mon:

I really don't see much of a point of going into the nitty gritty of the Cetra because they're dead and never coming back. They exist perfectly in the peripheral of the plot of FFVII as apocrypha.

Unless Square intends to go full bore in a revisiting of FFVII's world, and I mean a full fledged sequel game, the Cetra story does not need to be told or expanded upon. No spin off, or side-thing will do the subject justice or serve a meaningful purpose.

Something as meaningful as that from the original FFVII deserves the full breadth and scope of said origin game.

I imagine wishing for a story on the Cetra would just get monkey-paw granted by S-E.

"Here is your prequel story on the Cetra... As a freemium mobile game for Android!!! Final Fantasy VII Era Crisis X "
 

Lex

Administrator
I mean, you share the same opinion as everyone else I've mentioned my desire to so I completely understand your view :monster:

I would really just like something like a novel that tells the story of a young tribesman/woman learning what it means to be "Cetra" when suddenly this big calamity hits and a monster starts to fuck with them all. The viability or need for the story itself has no bearing on my desire to experience that story :monster:
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
I think the fun of mythology is that it doesn't ever make sense, but that's just me :mon:

I think the real problem is when said prequel mythology gets so deep that it ends up a convoluted mess that only serves to remove itself from the source material in any meaningful way.

Not to pick on Kingdom Hearts again but compare Birth By Sleep and Back Cover/Union X. One serves as a well done prequel that gives a glimpse to the past of the Keyblade, the past Keyblade Masters and how it all relates to the current saga, and the other is Union X. :mon:

The reality is, the Cetra are only as interesting and meaningful in terms of their direct relationship to the story of FFVII and what happened in that game. Fall too far into the past and the story just gets to be convoluted and you strip mine the mythology of it's magic.
 

ChipNoir

Pro Adventurer
I'm thinking more along the lines of DOC, which from what little I've had the patience to look at, seems to be spending a lot of time pulling stuff out of thin air to justify it's own existence. Crystal materia? Omega? Just....whyyyyy? It doesn't add anything to the current narrative. It's just a desperate attempt to undo a closed ending.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
To be fair, Dirge of Cerberus doesn't really go that far into mythology or upend FFVII's ending at all.

It's pretty simple and consistent to the lore and world mechanics of FFVII.

When a planet nears its end, just like for life on the planet, a cycle of souls for the cosmos kicks in.

What remains of the spirit energy of the planet gets siphoned into an ark of sorts to protect it's life force and find another home to be reborn.

The "ark" of Gaia is called "Omega." And the one that fills said ark is "Chaos."

All life gets returned to the planet by Chaos and the Lifestream gets housed inside the ark of Omega, Omega leaves the dying planet to find a new world that has yet to be born and then take up residence there as a brand new planet with souls to inhabit it.

The Proto-Materia is merely a trigger that once it becomes part of the planet, it triggers the "end of world" sequence and begins the awakening of Omega so that it can launch into space.

It's the cycle of souls for the cosmos. And you know what this cycle resembles?

Final Fantasy IX's take on planetary death and rebirth. :mon:
 
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