Staff Related BS and Discussions split from FFOF

[Cat Rage Room]

I mean you're right. You're right in that Ryu has to be reprimanded somehow but continuously saying he has to be 'reprimanded somehow uh...' isn't going to cut it either.

How does the community as a whole feel about this? I think it's right for anything major such as a destaffing (which I am on board for if need me) should be the echo of what the community wants and what would be best for it. What should happen to Ryu? About this?

 

[Dashell]

Also, just to ask:

what would happen if a normal member had done what Ryu did? Would they have gotten a warning or what?

 

[Madame Mayor]

Ya Mog it's not like I totally didn't already suggest that lol.

I personally think this doesn't need it's own thread. It's about staff misconduct. let's not have conversations about something this important happening in three different threads.

 

[CK]

I don't see the point in posting a wall of text when mog explains exactly how I feel perfectly. So yeah what mog said.

 

[Hisako]

I think the problem isn't so much what Ryu did, but that he shows no remorse for it. He doesn't see what he did as wrong. This is obvious by what he said to Bex earlier today. If he was really sorry and apologized and promised it wouldn't happen again and was sincere, that's another story. But a forced apology and then insulting Bex the very next day... well that's a problem. I think that's the other important matter at hand here.

In all honesty, I'd like to hear what Ryu has to say before we go around accusing him of being insincere and 'insulting' people.

We don't have to discuss this issue as if he's some sort of entity separate from the forum community.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

I prefer to look at this through the glass of 'any member', not just 'normal/staff' members. Since I've been in Staff technically even before this place was founded (it wasn't some glorious origin story of a pantheon of gods or whatever. Everyone just literally pointed at each other and was like 'uh okay you can be a mod'), it can be a little difficult to make that divide between a Staff member and a normal member. So I just say 'fuck it' and assume everyone is a normal member.

Anyhow, if a normal member did it, it would be wisest to consider a few factors in doling out judgement; their personality, their intent, prior contribution, a history of offenses, and the effect of the stability of the forum and the community.

That's why as far as I'm concerned I'm throwing Ryu to the wolves (you guys/everyone)

 

[Geostigma]

This is a slippery slope that leads to a place where the grass is not greener on the other side.

I know alot of you hate it when i bring up comparisons to ACF, i hate bringing it up myself i really do.

But Yop and co did a good fucking job bringing this community back. All of you are good people, even though i have been distant since the closure of ACF i still consider some of you some really close friends and i would hate to have another community be lost in a sea of shit because of things like this.

Say what you will, call my comparisons unfounded and wrong but i remember exactly what ACF was like and i was there alot longer then alot of you (with the exception of scott and yop and X-Soldier). And alot of the drama, the staff wars. The spam wars, the demotions and eventual closure of the wesbite was because of situations exactly like this one that just kept getting worse and worse.

Admittedly i was part of the spammers, along with the majority of the members who still post here. And at first, we demanded things that at the time we thought were fair.

We thought certain staff were like Ryu, rude and out to get us. And sometimes they were (SW and Felix come to mind). But after we saw our first big victory (arguably the fall of Darkbeat). We got blood thirsty and went for the throats of staff. We not only caused so much drama that the website had to be closed, but it had to be closed twice in a a two week span. Followed later by an indefinite closure.

Despite the bull crap i loved that forum to death, i loved that community. And by god i loved Somewhat Obsessed, and i miss alot of the friends whom i lost contact with because that forum got closed. And i hate that it got closed because me and handful of friends forgot that it was just a forum. We couldnt let anything go and complained about everything every chance we could.


This forum, thankfully isnt there yet. And hopefully it wont get there.

But the way both the staff and the non staff are handling it it will eventually get to a point where there is uneasy tension and people are going to leave.

If we dont fix this now, if we dont react differently. We will all lose friends.

So excuse my diatribe and melodrama, but i say this with in the sincerest way i can.
We need to change the way we approach this because obviously the current method is not working.

 

[looneymoon]

I mean you're right. You're right in that Ryu has to be reprimanded somehow but continuously saying he has to be 'reprimanded somehow uh...' isn't going to cut it either.

How does the community as a whole feel about this? I think it's right for anything major such as a destaffing (which I am on board for if need me) should be the echo of what the community wants and what would be best for it. What should happen to Ryu? About this?

I personally don't feel comfortable with someone who so casually broke a very fundamental ethical code (and then not acknowledging he did anything wrong, which he has yet to do) having moderator power over me... so yeah, I'm all for destaffing tbh :/

Actually, after the behaviour/statements made by certain staff members at FFOF regarding the memberbase, I'd rather there be a complete overhaul of the entire staff but I think that's wishful thinking on my part.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

i feel like if a member did the sort of thing ryu has done, they would have been warned. if they had thenafter insulted the other member after the event, showing that the apology issued was forced, i would expect a temp ban, since that sort of shit is the sort of thing that demonstrates a lack of respect for the member and for the community as a whole.

i'm not suggesting that ryu be banned or anything, but i do think him being destaffed would demonstrate the fact that this isn't the sort of thing that's taken lightly. a talking to clearly hasn't shown ryu why what he did was wrong, but idk.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

I personally don't feel comfortably who so casually broke a very fundamental ethical code (and then not acknowledging he did anything wrong, which he has yet to do) having moderator power over me... so yeah, I'm all for destaffing tbh :/

Actually, after the behaviour/statements made by certain staff members at FFOF regarding the memberbase, I'd rather there be a complete overhaul of the entire staff but I think that's wishful thinking on my part.

I totally understand that. I also think that your second statement warrents notice as well. The concept of the possibility of the Staff being mass fired isn't pleasant but no one, me included should be able to sit in Staff if they're not suitable for it. Perhaps an audit is in order for the near future. But I am just one out of many Staff so that opinion definitely isn't meant to override the whole Staff.

 

[Geostigma]

I hate to say it but maybe we need to approach this like any job would approach it.

We need to get Human Resources involved, and find a middle point =/

 

[Celes Chere]

I think Ryu should post what he thinks about all of this. It's feels like he's on trial atm, and there's no defense.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

I think Ryu should post what he thinks about all of this. It's feels like he's on trial atm, and there's no defense.

Part of the reason why I've yet to make any sort of definitive statement on my part on what to do with him. I would like to give the man a chance to defend all this shit surrounding him.

 

[Octo]

I hate to say it but maybe we need to approach this like any job would approach it.

We need to get Human Resources involved, and find a middle point =/

How would that manifest itself here though? I really like the idea of someone mediating but I don't know who the hell that could be unless we kidnapped a stranger off the street

 

[Tifabelle]

mog, did you read the thread on ffof? I found staff reaction quite disturbing.

 

[Geostigma]

I think Ryu should post what he thinks about all of this.

I hope he doesnt post it.

People get heated over things and there is always the possibility that someone will look for any reason in his response to nitpick.
Him posting anything could just exacerbate the situation, then again him not posting could have the same effect.

None the less this is not something that should be kept in the public domain, i understand that there are many people involved. But it may be best that someone not involved on either side issue be set up as a consultant and said person could reason Private messages from all parties involved to resolve this issue.

But none the less threads like this dont help the situation at all. If anything it assists in building tension and having the conversation go in circles.
We need to handle this in a level headed way, off site.

edit:
Also guys sorry about the poor grammar and what not i know this is kind of like the norm for me, but considering i dont interact with alot of you i'd like to make it know that .
1) Im tired.
2) Im shit at spelling. I hope i get my point across well though.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

mog, did you read the thread on ffof? I found staff reaction quite disturbing.

I'm trying. It's just so much to wade though. But I will eventually slog through all of it. Some 'key points' in the convo would be great though.

But none the less threads like this dont help the situation at all. If anything it assists in building tension and having the conversation go in circles.
We need to handle this in a level headed way, off site.

That's not necessary I think. If we can't handle this in an adult manner in the realm of discussion than fuck it, why are we here?

Yes, we can discuss this and resolve this exactly how we're doing now. Let's stop walking around this place on eggshells, people. This is our house, we're not renting it from the dude down the street.

 

[looneymoon]

All I know is last time he posted he said "don't post naked pictures on the internet if you don't want anyone to see them"



lol

anyways, the problem isn't just with Ryu. the way the staff has handled and treated the situation is just as despicable as his actions/attitude and i have to echo what winter/Vriska said about perhaps seriously misjudging you guys. Admittedly, a mass overhaul is rather extreme but I do think a review/audit of the staff is very necessary.

 

[Max Payne]

Who isn't being level headed? This seems like a pretty calm line of discussion.

 

[Geostigma]

That's not necessary I think. If we can't handle this in an adult manner in the realm of discussion than fuck it, why are we here?

Yes, we can discuss this and resolve this exactly how we're doing now. Let's stop walking around this place on eggshells, people. This is our house, we're not renting it from the dude down the street.

I would like to think so but that has not exactly worked in the past. Trust me i dont like stating the contrary, i wish we could be mature about this buts human nature to stick to your guns despite it possibly being against the greater good.

Im a supervisor at my job, i manage quite a few subordinates. When an issue arises between members of my team the last thing i do is blast it in our instant messenger for the rest of the team to see.

I pull them aside and we get to the bottom of it, and if it cant be fixed then i do my best to accommodate both of them. Things are easier this way when only the effect parties are involved.
edit:

Dacon sorry, i didnt intend to imply things arent level headed now.
But knowing this community we do have a pension of going in the other direction with things fairly quickly some times.
Im merely suggesting we approach this like any professional work environment would.

 

[Celes Chere]

People get heated over things and there is always the possibility that someone will look for any reason in his response to nitpick.
Him posting anything could just exacerbate the situation, then again him not posting could have the same effect.

While that's true, it's not fair to give Ryu no defense at all. He should have the right to defend himself, especially when things said about him might not be true, or perhaps there was a misunderstanding. Maybe he wants to really apologize to Bex, or explain the situation in his own words. I think many will take him saying nothing as admitting to be 'guilty'. Some may nitpick but remember, there are those of us that don't mind Ryu and hold no grudges against him so we won't be doing that to him.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Let's not overthink this, I think. Let Ryu say his piece, and we'll collectively figure out what to do from there. That's the fairest and easiest way.

 

[Max Payne]

Dacon sorry, i didnt intend to imply things arent level headed now.
But knowing this community we do have a pension of going in the other direction with things fairly quickly some times.

That already happened on FFOF, that's why things are calm here now.

Also, attempting to handle this like a work environment thing isn't going to work, because there are tangible consequences in that environment.
Also, it's really bad form to poo poo people behind their backs, which is why we're trying to do this in an open environment where people won't be so willing to openly be a dick.

 

[looneymoon]

I'd rather not have the site feel like a work place environment...

I mean, I go on this site to have fun and talk/socialize with a cool community. It's not like I have to be here, but I like it here so I'd like to keep this a place I like to visit. It just sucks when people go and ruin it? I think it's best we all come together and solve this face to face like mature human beings, in a public place where all the members can see.

As a member, I don't want it to feel like work keeping this community fun.

 

[Max Payne]

That's what bugs me the most.

Everyone was having fun, then BAM someone drops the buzz killington bomb