Story of SOLDIER

[Andalegogo]

So what the hell happened to the SOLDIER organization?

I always thought it was HEAVILY implied, ever since the original FF7, that SOLDIER members were relatively low in number, with 1st Classes being the fewest in number. I believe they even tried to represent this in their encounter rate in-game, because iirc, SOLDIER encounters did seem to be the least common.

In CC you see loads of lower class SOLDIER, but never see a 1st Class beyond the SOLDIER heads: Angeal, Genesis, Sephiroth, and Zack. Only at the end is their mention of SOLDIER 2nd, Luxiere, being in line for what sounds like a guaranteed promotion.

After CC, the only SOLDIER we know of that still exist are a bunch of 2nd and 3rd Classes, where Kunsel would fall into (since he's a 2nd and it's never said he attains 1st Class), and possibly 1st Class Luxiere.

In DoC there are many "SOLDIER" who aid Deepground that appear to be 3rd Classes (because they've got the long gloves and boots). But there's really nothing beyond that. All we can really get from this is that some SOLDIER did make it past the events of FF7.

Should we assume that remaining SOLDIER did what the BC Turks did? Ditched ShinRa, only to return and save Midgar's citizens at Meteorfall?

Honestly, it just seems like something Kunsel would do. He always seemed like the loner/scout type who would end up learning too much and finding his own way. Kunsel just seemed laid back.

....or is it possible Rufus still employs them for heavy black-ops...like DG reconnaissance....?

 

[Makoeyes987]

Essai and Sebastian were SOLDIER 1st Class in BC too. This can be seen in how they wear black, which is the uniform for a SOLDIER 1st Class.

I think with the loss of some of their major 1st Class members (Genesis, Angeal, Sephiroth, Zack, Essai, Sebastian, etc) when SOLDIER went under the jurisdiction of Heidegger, they promoted new members to SOLDIER 1st Class to fill in the gap.

Also, those SOLDIERs you see in DC aren't SOLDIER members from above ground. They're Deepground SOLDIERs who wear the uniform of regular SOLDIERs and wield swords. They have no 1st, 2nd, or 3rd class rank. They're just SOLDIER.

 

[ForceStealer]

Yeah there are plenty of SOLDIER, there are just significantly less of them than standard troops. Maybe like Marines to Army in the US military, there are lots of Marines, but still less than standard foot soldiers. And I guess 1st Class would be like the SEALs, lol.

But it would be nice to get an exact number of 1st Class SOLDIERs at any given point. Tifa asks Zack how many there was but he pretty much just says not many.

And I know game mechanics don't necessarily apply, but you can fight 1st Class SOLDIERs all day long in Junon in FF7.

Watching the DC online, I wanna know how many DG SOLDIERs they can possibly have for the Tsviets to be allowed to continually slaughter scores of them. And EVERY DG SOLDIER was at one point a SOLDIER? OR were they just breeding down there? Because how the hell are there so many of them.

 

[Makoeyes987]

2nd Class SOLDIERs are in Junon.

1st Class SOLDIERs are in Midgar during the whole Sister Ray disaster. And that's the only time you can fight them, which is in a small area near the base of the Sister Ray in Sector 8.

And some DG SOLDIERs were SOLDIERs while others, like Shelker, were just hapless victims turned into SOLDIERs.

 

[Andalegogo]

I know there are many members of SOLDIER, and was aware of Essai and Sebastian. I guess the point of my question was to figure out how many of them are left after the fall of Midgar, and what are they doing? Essai and Sebastian were long gone by then.

About the SOLDIER encountered in DoC, I wanna try and get some things straight. Basically, I've been under the impression that the entire army is officially referred as Deepground SOLDIER, correct? I thought they were a long-lost branch of SOLDIER where they attempted to create stronger warriors for the main military before breaking down into hell.

My confusion stems from the fact that I generally assume all of DG's "troops" are officially referred to as "Deepground SOLDIERs", with the best being set apart with title of "Tsviet", deviating from the rank system among mainstream SOLDIER. Deepground SOLDIER's uniforms are very different from normal SOLDIER uniforms, and thus are easy to identify and categorize on sight.

I once saw the concept art for the SOLDIER enemy in DoC, and they were simply called "SOLDIER". The absence of the designation "Deepground" kinda made me think that these guys started their careers in the mainstream SOLDIER. They even had similar uniforms, including the helmet. At DoC's release I noticed that the main difference in their uniforms were their gloves and boots. Everything else, most obviously their blue clothing, hinted they were lower rank SOLDIER.

And then CC came out and showed us that 3rd Class SOLDIER wear similar attire to the SOLDIER seen in DoC, and appear to use the same sword as well.

This is mainly why I believe that the SOLDIERs that Vincent fought in DoC were actually lower class (3rd or 2nd) ex-SOLDIERs, and actually separate from the Deepground SOLDIERs.

 

[Andalegogo]

Of course, having been thrown down there as punishment, I guess they were forced to join the DG army in the process, eh?

 

[Makoeyes987]

They wear the emblem of Deepground though. They're not regular SOLDIERs. They're just...DG SOLDIERs wielding a sword and wearing a SOLDIER outfit.



And their outfit is not the same as a SOLDIER 3rd Class. The color is not the same and the variations that make them different. There's a close resemblance but no, they're different.

And again, you can't equate the SOLDIER class designation to another branch of SOLDIER that doesn't have it. They're just DG SOLDIER operatives.

And yeah, if any SOLDIERs from above ground were tossed into DG, they'd be forced to join DG and wear the emblem and clothes. They'd lose whatever rank they had and just be a DG member.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

I'd like it if Square would release a statistical breakdown of Shinra's armed forces by demographic and number. It would definitely be a treat to those who look at the story that way, and it would definitely help their own efforts to tell the kind of stories they tell in CC and DoC.

 

[spirit_chaser]

But weren't Weiss and Nero once 1st Class SOLDIERs too? Or at least they were wearing 1st Class uniform in CC :-\

I always wondered too if DG was supposed to be superior to the regular SOLDIER, since it's a secretive organization.

 

[ForceStealer]

Yeah, and while I suppose Vincent could simply just be that good, the standard Deepground SOLDIER strikes me as far weaker from a SOLDIER, 3rd Class even. (Although, Crisis Core showcased some pussy NPC SOLDIERs, so who knows)

I think the most confusing thing to me about it is just how many there are. No one noticed so many people vanishing? Or are DG SOLDIERs ageless like Shelke and so could have been there since the project was started. But still, to amass a secret army of SOLDIERs that size.

Between that and some of the moronic 3rd Class SOLDIERs in CC, it's a wonder to me that Cloud didn't get in. Especially after that BC Turk saw what he did with a sword, and that Turks recruit people for SOLDIER.

 

[spirit_chaser]

If DG SOLDIER were weaker that the regular SOLDIER, what was the point then to keep it's existence in such a secret?
No one knew about them, except for president Shinra, Hojo and Heidegger.
So they must be "special" and "different" from the regular SOLDIER...
I have this thought that since Shinra kept DG's existence in a secret, they meant to be their ultimate force.

Also, in BC Azul was trying to join the regular SOLDIER, but later was recruited for DG. As we see in DC he's quite powerful, so I assume he could easly made it into SOLDIER, at least 2nd or 3rd Class.

 

[ForceStealer]

Well the Tsviets are absolutely strong, I don't doubt that. But just the random DG SOLDIERs? I dunno, they didn't strike me as very spectacular, but as I said, I suppose Vincent is 'that good' so as to make SOLDIERs look mediocre.

 

[spirit_chaser]

Yes, what intrigues me the most were the Tsveits supposed to be stronger than 1st Class SOLDIERs.
One thing we know is that Weiss and Nero used to be 1st Class SOLDIERs, but were they ever under Sephiroth's command?

And then the Tsveits knew about the modifications made to them and stuff, while Sephiroth, Genesis and Angeal knew nothing about their real origins.
But they were unique experiments and as far as we know the only one-winged angels in the story.
Duh.

 

[sephirothpaine]

Sephiroth, Genesis, and Angeal weren't born to be the strongest or perfic soldier. They were born to find the promise land.

Weiss, Nero, and Rosso were all born in DG to be the strongest soldiers in the world.

Not all DG Soldiers were tooken from the outside world like Shelke. Some were Soldiers, some were everyday people, some were born into it.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Weiss and Nero were never 1st Class SOLDIERs either.

They were under disguise. Again, notice the emblem. It's not a SOLDIER emblem at all. It's the DG emblem. It's a rather obvious disguise, really.

And really, I'd say DG is a cut above normal SOLDIER given how they have been born and bred to kill, have been experimented on rigorously, and have trained non-stop to fight and kill. They're labeled as "special" for a reason.
Nero and Weiss were born in Deep Ground. They never lived normal lives or were apart of SOLDIER. They were DG SOLDIERs through and through.

 

[Nocturne]

Im surprised Nero was let out actually. I mean, the whole darkness thing going on.

 

[spirit_chaser]

Weiss and Nero were never 1st Class SOLDIERs either.

They were under disguise. Again, notice the emblem. It's not a SOLDIER emblem at all. It's the DG emblem. It's a rather obvious disguise, really.

Um, true! I never noticed the emblem :-[

I wonder then who's stronger physically, Seph or Weiss.

 

[Makoeyes987]

No other person is heralded as the strongest SOLDIER of all, so I'd say it'd be Sephiroth. He's the most widely used SOLDIER, given how Shinra actually sees him as a success and don't toss him into a hole in the ground.

 

[spirit_chaser]

lol.
But DG was more controlled, maybe Shinra wanted someone to be stronger than Seph, so they could use him against the strongest SOLDIER if needed?

 

[Makoeyes987]

If they were stronger than Sephiroth, what the frack was the point in using Sephiroth and calling him the strongest SOLDIER then?

Not using Nero would make sense, but then that leaves Weiss. If Weiss was an upgrade from Sephiroth, why not use him, and leave him in the DG facility to rot on a throne and use Sephiroth?

 

[spirit_chaser]

That's what I'm trying to figure out.

If DGS were nothing special, what's the point then in making them such a secret?

 

[Dark and Divine]

[quote author=spirit chaser link=topic=358.msg9795#msg9795 date=1232480987]
That's what I'm trying to figure out.

If DGS were nothing special, what's the point then in making them such a secret?
[/quote]

I think that Deepground was secret because it was a place where Shinra Scientists could do all kinds of human experiments without any restrictions.

 

[Makoeyes987]

That was the purpose of Deepground. It became the play ground for Shinra Scientists to experiment on soldiers and stuff.

Most DG SOLDIERs were probably stronger than their above counterparts but Sephiroth was the strongest of everything, and he was thus kept above ground and used the most. Shinra scientists with the President's backing were trying to create the most powerful soldier, but in the end, Hojo ended up accidently making one through Sephiroth thus the DG experiment was rendered useless. They were kept underground for backup in case they *were* needed.

Like to pursue Genesis.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

I don't know, while I agree that Sephiroth was the strongest, I do hold the belief that Weiss wasn't TOO far below him, if at all, and could possibly beat Sephiroth in a fight.

 

[Makoeyes987]

He probably is close, but Sephiroth is superior and stated the strongest SOLDIER.

It just doesn't make sense for Shinra to invest so much into an inferior warrior when they got one who's stronger, right below them, willing and eager to fight for them. Again, the other Tsviets make sense.

Azul is stupid.

Rosso is batshit insane.

Nero could arguably kill anyone he doesn't like.

Weiss however is sane, logical, strong, and happy to fight for Shinra. However, he wants to be free as well. If Sephiroth wasn't the one they wanted, they could've sent *him* down to Deepground and kept Weiss. Weiss could've been the tailored, fabricated golden boy for SOLDIER.

But he isn't.