The Five Bosses of Godo's Pagoda

[LicoriceAllsorts]

I was asking on tumblr about the etymology of some Wutai place names, and recieved a reply that led me to this on the wiki

"All the bosses in the Wutai Pagoda appear to have a link to theater. Shake is likely a shortened version of Shakespeare, the most famous English playwright. The intention was that each opponent would speak in a different way based on their origin, but this is missed in the English translation."

The wiki suggests the playwrights are:
Gorki - Russian writer Maxim Gorki
Shake - short for Shakespeare
Chekov - another Russian playwright, Anton Chekov
Staniv - short for Constantin Stanislavky, of the famous method
Godo - we're still waiting on this one....

I'm here to ask whether it's canon that the five pagoda bosses were named after these specific playwrights, or whether it's just a very ingenious theory dreamed up by some or other wiki editor. I must say, though, that unlike some of the other theories the wiki has dreamed up, this one seems like the logical conclusion to draw from the evidence.

 

[Makoeyes987]

What do you mean if it's canon?

They're all named after these playwrights.

All of them are named this way even in Japanese. You think it's sheer coincidence that the writers of FFVII just happened to name every single one of the Five Mighty Gods of Wutai after writers? That just sorta happened?

And Godo's name is short for Godot, the titular character of Waiting for Godot by Samuel Beckett. Another theatre reference.

 

[TurquoiseHammer]

And Godo's name is short for Godot, the titular character of Waiting for Godot by Samuel Beckett. Another theatre reference.

I was just about to suggest this. It's a neat coincidence that it also (sort of) means "five ways/paths" in Japanese, signifying how he's a fusion of all the other four's strengths, plus his own.

I can say the names' origins aren't mentioned in the 2005 Ultimania, which does mention stuff like Dominos and Pizza Hut—not that that would make it incontrovertible "canon" even if it were.

 

[JBedford]

Gorki's name is likely also a play on 剛力 or 力 in some way, given that's his transformation. Machoke actually has the exact same name in Japanese.

FF things rarely have their origins explained anywhere. The wiki's etymology sections generally avoid outright saying something is the origin, unless it's confirmed by a source.

 

[ph14basicbitch]

Godo being "Godo" in English is a mistranslation. It's written ゴドー in JP, meaning it is actually Godot as in Waiting for Godot (the JP title of the play is ゴドーを待ちながら), the PS1 translator didn't realize this (Godo/Godou is technically correct if you're just romanizing the katakana), and will never be fixed in Remake because it's a legacy translation.

Edit: Upon re-reading this, I realized what I'm saying here makes 0 sense if you don't know Godot is pronounced like "guh-dough" (lol, okay, i'm bad at this) even though there's a T.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

I did say we were waiting on Godo

I am pleased, though unsurprised, that my assumption TLS members are a cultured group of people who'd all get the reference turned out to be correct.

I was particulaly interested in this: "The intention was that each opponent would speak in a different way based on their origin, but this is missed in the English translation." Do they all speak distinctly differently in Japanese?

 

[Mobius Stripper]

I'm dying to know how they speak in the original Japanese. Especially Godo.

 

[Ite]

I am pleased, though unsurprised, that my assumption TLS members are a cultured group of people who'd all get the reference turned out to be correct.

Y…yeah. I definitely got the reference. I certainly didn’t go through theatre school being like “Chekhov! Like the FF7 pagoda boss lol. Gorki? Like that… pagoda… boss…”

?

 

[Mobius Stripper]

I certainly didn’t go through theatre school being like “Chekhov! Like the FF7 pagoda boss

Fun fact not many people know: Both the boss and the playwright are named after the character from Star Trek.

 

[Torrie]

What I find unfortunate is that the Russian localization team of the old original PS1 version didn't recognize anyone except Chekhov, so imagine my confusion when among random fantasy-ish names there's CHEKHOV all of a sudden. I remember wondering if it was an intentional choice or just a funny coincidence. Russian streamers who don't know this bit of trivia usually make fun of it. Like, wow, Chekhov? Who's next? Pushkin? Lermontov? Tolstoy? Lolololol

I've just found out though that the game received a new Russian translation for the current PC version. The names as well as some particular sentences were changed. And in this version, as I'm checking right now, Chekhov is... a woman?? Has s/he always been recognized as a woman? I'm really surprised. And Staniv/Stanev is still the only unrecognizable one. If I hadn't read the trivia online, I wouldn't have guessed that his name is short for Stanislavsky.

 

[Ite]

What I find unfortunate is that the Russian localization team of the old original PS1 version didn't recognize anyone except Chekhov, so imagine my confusion when among random fantasy-ish names there's CHEKHOV all of a sudden. I remember wondering if it was an intentional choice or just a funny coincidence. Russian streamers who don't know this bit of trivia usually make fun of it. Like, wow, Chekhov? Who's next? Pushkin? Lermontov? Tolstoy? Lolololol

I've just found out though that the game received a new Russian translation for the current PC version. The names as well as some particular sentences were changed. And in this version, as I'm checking right now, Chekhov is... a woman?? Has s/he always been recognized as a woman? I'm really surprised. And Staniv/Stanev is still the only unrecognizable one. If I hadn't read the trivia online, I wouldn't have guessed that his name is short for Stanislavsky.

Chekhov is indeed a woman in the US black label.

 

[Torrie]

Chekhov is indeed a woman in the US black label.

FF7 never ceases to offer us new discoveries.

 

[Odysseus]

I am pleased, though unsurprised, that my assumption TLS members are a cultured group of people who'd all get the reference turned out to be correct.

Massive IQ, enormous intellect.
You would not BELIEVE how many spears I've shaken.

 

[Deleted member 13557]

Only one I picked up on was Chekhov. I’m uncultured

 

[ph14basicbitch]

I was particulaly interested in this: "The intention was that each opponent would speak in a different way based on their origin, but this is missed in the English translation." Do they all speak distinctly differently in Japanese?

They use different pronouns, but idk if I would link their pronouns with their origins. It's more like "anime".

 

[ForceStealer]

Fun fact not many people know: Both the boss and the playwright are named after the character from Star Trek.

Here's hoping the Remake Pagoda contains additional floors for Sulu and Uhura.

And the use of "canon" was a funny way to ask this, Lic. Canon to...real life?

 

[Ite]

Fun fact not many people know: Both the boss and the playwright are named after the character from Star Trek.

Fire the huge wateria!

Here's hoping the Remake Pagoda contains addition floors for Sulu and Uhura.

Spoiler: “Pictured, Cid Highwind, Left”

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Well, I seriously doubt SE spent much time dreaming up the names for their minor bosses in optional side quests (otherwise they'd have made their theatre a bit more representational, and not taken three from Russia, one from England, and one a character in a play rather than a playwright. I mean as a theme it's applied in a rather slipshod manner. No doubt Nomura said, "I need names for the Pagoda bosses by tea-time today!" and some poor grunt who went into video game design after majoring in World Theatre came up with the theme and names in sixty seconds flat.) but what I want to know is, is it canon that they were planning to make each of these minor bosses speak in a manner befitting the pen of the playwright after whom they were named? (Is there a big difference in the writing of Gorky and Chekov? What about Stanislavky?) And is this a thing that happens in the Japanese version?

 

[Makoeyes987]

That's not how it works.

Grunts aren't just randomly assigning names. The writers do put that kind of time and energy in character design, even for the NPCs, if they're part of a character's scenario. Jun Akiyama was the one who wrote the scenario for Yuffie and her sidequests and he wrote her Pagoda quest to showcase her background and Wutai's. So when they design all those details like that, they design it for a purpose and it's clearly intentional. It's a collaborative process that just isn't outsourced simply.

Given the themed naming of all the characters across Final Fantasy and how FFVII draws from multiple sources of media, including authors and playwrights, no. It definitely it was intentional and I wouldn't be surprised if they were chosen for a reason.

 

[Ite]

Well, I seriously doubt SE spent much time dreaming up the names for their minor bosses in optional side quests (otherwise they'd have made their theatre a bit more representational, and not taken three from Russia, one from England, and one a character in a play rather than a playwright. I mean as a theme it's applied in a rather slipshod manner. No doubt Nomura said, "I need names for the Pagoda bosses by tea-time today!" and some poor grunt who went into video game design after majoring in World Theatre came up with the theme and names in sixty seconds flat.) but what I want to know is, is it canon that they were planning to make each of these minor bosses speak in a manner befitting the pen of the playwright after whom they were named? (Is there a big difference in the writing of Gorky and Chekov? What about Stanislavky?) And is this a thing that happens in the Japanese version?

I can’t really find any relation between the works/personalities of those theatre giants and the characters in FF7, at least not in their few dialogue lines (via the NA translation hackjob). Character design and battle programming don’t give me much either. For instance: Stanislavsky is famous for developing “method” acting (and then later in life developing another method that’s completely different and probably much healthier) but while I can kind of chuckle at the fact that the Staniv enemy’s gimmick is inflicting sadness, I can’t draw any actual parallels. Why is Shake an angry child who turns into a penguin?

I feel like the theatre theme might just be loosely linked to the idea of climbing the pagoda is Yuffie taking centre…stage?

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Like naming Domino and Hart after pizza companies because Midgar is a "pizza", it's deliberate, but it's not deep. It's just a little joke, really. However, if there is some deeper reason, some more profound significance, I'd love to know what it is.

 

[TurquoiseHammer]

It's not very helpful but here's some of the Ultimania's notes about the pagoda. Note that the English translation leaves out a lot of the dialogue between Yuffie and the Five Mighty Saints.

[Image caption:] At the Pagoda of the Five Mightiest, the symbol of Wutai’s strength, Yuffie must face off against the Five Mighty Saints. Her first opponent is Gorky, the Mighty Saint of Power.

[Image caption:] After defeating Gorky, Yuffie ascends to the next level feeling secure in her victory and heads for the next round. Her second opponent is Shake, the Mighty Saint of Speed, who demonstrates a power beyond his childlike appearance.

[Image caption:] Waiting for her on the third floor of the pagoda is Chekhov, the lone woman among the Five Mighty Saints. She uses techniques that harness the power of magic stored in her body to take Yuffie on.

[Image caption:] [Yuffie’s] fourth opponent, Staniv, is the undefeated Mighty Saint of Martial Arts. However, Yuffie beats down even the formidable Staniv with little difficulty.

[Image caption:] On the top floor awaits Yuffie’s father, Godo. He is the Mighty Saint of All, who is gifted in power, speed, magic, and martial arts. Yuffie is surprised, but Godo commences the fight without further ado.

Variety Check (Multiple Choice): Yuffie and the Five Mighty Saints

Once Yuffie rejoins her companions, you can challenge the Pagoda of the Five Mightiest. With Yuffie in your party, talk to the Mighty Saint waiting on each floor and choose the topmost option to begin a one-on-one fight between Yuffie and the Mighty Saint. The choices you’re offered at this time display an arrogance typical of Yuffie. In particular, her exchange with Chekhov, the sole female [opponent], will send sparks flying to the player’s side of the screen.

[Image caption:] The choices will match each Mighty Saint’s unique personality. Only Godo will commence the battle without delay.

 

[Odysseus]

It's pretty common in Japanese media to do "theme naming" like that, especially for minor characters. Chances are whoever named them was just a fan of theatre and used some famous figures in that field as a basis for the names of this group of characters. Lest we forget that Biggs and Wedge are just Star Wars references.

 

[Makoeyes987]

It's not very helpful but here's some of the Ultimania's notes about the pagoda. Note that the English translation leaves out a lot of the dialogue between Yuffie and the Five Mighty Saints.

[Image caption:] At the Pagoda of the Five Mightiest, the symbol of Wutai’s strength, Yuffie must face off against the Five Mighty Saints. Her first opponent is Gorky, the Mighty Saint of Power.

[Image caption:] After defeating Gorky, Yuffie ascends to the next level feeling secure in her victory and heads for the next round. Her second opponent is Shake, the Mighty Saint of Speed, who demonstrates a power beyond his childlike appearance.

[Image caption:] Waiting for her on the third floor of the pagoda is Chekhov, the lone woman among the Five Mighty Saints. She uses techniques that harness the power of magic stored in her body to take Yuffie on.

[Image caption:] [Yuffie’s] fourth opponent, Staniv, is the undefeated Mighty Saint of Martial Arts. However, Yuffie beats down even the formidable Staniv with little difficulty.

[Image caption:] On the top floor awaits Yuffie’s father, Godo. He is the Mighty Saint of All, who is gifted in power, speed, magic, and martial arts. Yuffie is surprised, but Godo commences the fight without further ado.

Variety Check (Multiple Choice): Yuffie and the Five Mighty Saints

Once Yuffie rejoins her companions, you can challenge the Pagoda of the Five Mightiest. With Yuffie in your party, talk to the Mighty Saint waiting on each floor and choose the topmost option to begin a one-on-one fight between Yuffie and the Mighty Saint. The choices you’re offered at this time display an arrogance typical of Yuffie. In particular, her exchange with Chekhov, the sole female [opponent], will send sparks flying to the player’s side of the screen.

[Image caption:] The choices will match each Mighty Saint’s unique personality. Only Godo will commence the battle without delay.

They actually have profiles on page 64. I think there might even be mention of their speech there given what I gleaned from Google Lens and Chekov's profile.

 

[ph14basicbitch]

I feel like the theatre theme might just be loosely linked to the idea of climbing the pagoda is Yuffie taking centre…stage?

Weeeeell, to be honest....... if we assume Wutai = from Mt Wutai in China = which is written as 五台 = where 五 is 5 and 台 is [many things] inc. stage... then, yeah, this is on-point. 5 is important (4 faces on the mountain + Leviathan for a total of 5) because 4 is bad luck, after all.

Wrt their speech, Staniv uses 私, Godot uses ワシ (because he's 900000000000000 years old), Shake uses オラ (because he's a kid), Chekhov uses わらわ (which is how you know she's a lady, of course), and now that I think about it I have no idea what personal pronoun Gorkii uses but I think he addresses your party as some super old samurai pronoun lol