The rebuild of Nibelheim? (Crisis Core Spoilers)

[Ⓐaron]

Which leads me back to Banora...

Which leads to my point that people probably didn't believe that everyone in Banora died as a result of an accident, and it was only by silencing them unnaturally that Shinra was able to keep the true sequence of events under wraps.

 

[ForceStealer]

But how would Cloud know WHAT materia Zack and just received? Or how much he had previously. All Cloud knew was that Sephiroth was a lot stronger.

Cloud was also level 1 in that flashback, something I doubt of a 1st Class SOLDIER.

But yes, I suppose that's neither here nor there. I'm with V here, at worst it was just a policy-shift at Shinra. And again, the clones WERE still all hanging around there and Shinra had to observe them. Bombing them shit out of them wouldn't have revealed anything about their behavior.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Cloud's memory is absolutely ridiculous because all Cloud "remembered" Zack having in terms of materia was a pre-emtive materia.

Give me a break. His memory of details like that were shit, and hardly consistent and reliable. A SOLDIER 3rd Class had more available techniques and spells than a SOLDIER 1st Class? That's ridiculous.

It makes perfect sense for SOLDIER to have access to materia like candy because Shinra can make any materia they so choose, since they have the lifestream on tap.

SOLDIER: Sir! I need materia!
Scientist: Well pick a fucking color and GO FOR IT BOY!
SOLDIER: *salutes and turns a tap and gets a Firaga materia out of a faucet* Thank you sir!

Seriously. If materia is capable of being bought by the common people, then it makes a helluva lot of sense for SOLDIER to be able to get high level materia from the company that can make it and give it to them.

 

[Gale]

It's also very possible that problems with how Banora was covered up lead to their new approach with Nibelheim. Maybe after Banora people got suspicious, and they didn't want to have it happen with Nibelheim as well.

 

[Ⓐaron]

It's also very possible that problems with how Banora was covered up lead to their new approach with Nibelheim. Maybe after Banora people got suspicious, and they didn't want to have it happen with Nibelheim as well.

Good point, there's afaik nothing saying people don't have suspicions about Banora as it is.

 

[ForceStealer]

SOLDIER: Sir! I need materia!
Scientist: Well pick a fucking color and GO FOR IT BOY!
SOLDIER: *salutes and turns a tap and gets a Firaga materia out of a faucet* Thank you sir!

Seriously. If materia is capable of being bought by the common people, then it makes a helluva lot of sense for SOLDIER to be able to get high level materia from the company that can make it and give it to them.

True (and funny ), but still, I don't think they'd hand out -agas without a second look. And we have discussed before about whether the gameplay mechanics apply to the materia really learning the materia or certain amounts of magical prowess required to cast higher level spells. The amount of magical skill and power one needed to cast Meteor or Holy implies that there are.

 

[Channy]

Nah, any ol SOLDIER could cast Meteor, there was nothing special about Sephiroth.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Why would any materia be denied to a SOLDIER 1st Class? They're supposed to use materia of the highest calibre, and it'd be self defeating to purposefully deny them the weaponry needed to fight and win effectively. I don't think the US military is adverse to giving our troops high powered rifles and weapons when war arises.

A Firaga is fair game for a SOLDIER 1st Class. Hell, in the original FFVII the SOLDIER 1st Class you fought in Midgar had "aga" level spells. So I'm not seeing the inconsistency at all.

 

[Munatik]

Well hey, there are other ways to start fires other than using materia. At least I hope so, or Cid would have to be really careful when lighting those cigs.

 

[ForceStealer]

But that doesn't mean everyone in SOLDIER could cast Firaga, as I said, its implied a certain level of prowess is required, game mechanics notwithstanding.

But yes, I imagine most 1st Classes could

 

[ForceStealer]

But that doesn't mean everyone in SOLDIER could cast Firaga, as I said, its implied a certain level of prowess is required, game mechanics notwithstanding.

But yes, I imagine most 1st Classes could

 

[Tetsujin]

If they did that people would get suspicious, because it's unlikely people would believe that everyone who lived in the town died in a fire.

Yeah, because that totally can't happen when the mountains surrounding Nibelheim are full of fire-spitting dragons, amirite?

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Why would any materia be denied to a SOLDIER 1st Class? They're supposed to use materia of the highest calibre, and it'd be self defeating to purposefully deny them the weaponry needed to fight and win effectively. I don't think the US military is adverse to giving our troops high powered rifles and weapons when war arises.

A Firaga is fair game for a SOLDIER 1st Class. Hell, in the original FFVII the SOLDIER 1st Class you fought in Midgar had "aga" level spells. So I'm not seeing the inconsistency at all.

Keep in mind that I'm agreeing with you here. SOLDIER should have top level access to Materia.

 

[megas_sephiroth]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Kunsel tell Zack that Shin-Ra does not hand high powered materia to its soldiers, that their supposed to work on the materia themselves?

 

[Meteo]

I highly doubt Shinra could simply mass produce 3rd level materia since the only way materia advance their power is through the execution of their respective abilities in battle. I'll concede that it was probably easy for at least First Class SOLDIERs to obtain basic fire/lightning/ice/quake/etc. materia, however they had to see combat in order to develop that magic into a 3rd level spell, and aside from Wutai, and I suppose Fort Condor, Gaia wasn't much of a war torn world. Shinra had a very effective tyrannical grip on citizens worldwide, and the vast majority dared not defy them. Perhaps a handful of SOLDIERs saw enough combat to advance their materia to high levels, but I wouldn't assume it was commonplace.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Well, the war with Wutai was going on for ten years and had reached around a lot of the world. It was the mass production of materia and its distribution to Shinra's armed forces that turned the tide.

And besides, by the time you were a First Class, you had already seen a lot of combat.

 

[Ⓐaron]

Yeah, because that totally can't happen when the mountains surrounding Nibelheim are full of fire-spitting dragons, amirite?

People seem to travel between towns without huge amounts of weaponry without a problem despite the aforementioned fire-spitting dragons, so yes, it would be unusual for everyone who escaped to die. It's one of those RPG things you have to take for granted - the party encounters monsters, but no one else does unless it suits the plot for them to do so.

 

[Meteo]

It's hard to use game mechanics to legitimize plot points because there's usually some kind of inherent contradiction that nullifies any supporting evidence.

 

[Tetsujin]

People seem to travel between towns without huge amounts of weaponry without a problem despite the aforementioned fire-spitting dragons, so yes, it would be unusual for everyone who escaped to die. It's one of those RPG things you have to take for granted - the party encounters monsters, but no one else does unless it suits the plot for them to do so.

Considering that it was said that Nibelheim DOES have a problem with monsters at that time, it makes sense imo.

 

[Makoeyes987]

No, Kunsel says you EARN your high level materia. Clearly implying that you get it by working up the ranks and accomplishing missions. It's in the very first chapter of Crisis Core.

Materia can also be synthesized artificially by Shinra. This is a plot point repeated in CC and BC. They can clearly make high level materia if the situation necessitates it. You earn materia by being a good SOLDIER, which means accomplishing missions. It's there in both games. I don't see how its so hard to fathom they'd give their SOLDIERs third level materia.

 

[Ⓐaron]

Considering that it was said that Nibelheim DOES have a problem with monsters at that time, it makes sense imo.

If that was in CC then it's a retcon and shouldn't affect judgement of the original plot. I definitely don't remember it being in the original game.

 

[Meteo]

Well tbh, during Cloud's flashback in Kalm, recalling the reason he was on route to Nibelheim with Sephiroth, the details of their mission stated explicitly that there were reports of monsters in the mountains surrounding Nibelheim and specifically near the reactor. Shinra was sent in to deal with them as their primary objective.

 

[Makoeyes987]

It was in the original game, and yes, Nibelheim has a problem with monsters because its in such close proximity to the Mako Reactor. Towns near reactors get more than the usual number of monsters because mako mutates the local flora and fauna into monsters. Not only that, but Mt. Nibel has numerous natural mako springs, which further increase the rate of mutation. They definitely have a monster problem.