The Soundtrack
- Thread starter Dravin
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Flintlock
Pro Adventurer
I agree with your points but I'm still concerned about "over-rocking". Too much of anything is a bad thing, that's why it's called "too much".
The tracks that have always had rock elements should keep them; I'm just worried that a dozen new songs will get the rock treatment when they really don't need it.
Lex
Administrator
Honestly, I see the validity in the points that have been made about "JENOVA" but I don't want it to be over-guitarified. It's entirely possible that they'll just use the AC version, and I'm not happy with that. AC's "JENOVA" is good no doubt, but it's a perfect example of what I DON'T want.
I know what you're saying about the "oomph" force, and I'm not saying no guitar. I'm saying less guitar. I'm saying the Black Mages have some amazing covers, but I don't want them producing the entire soundtrack.
What I'd like to see for JENOVA specifically is emphasis on the crazy melodical bleeps and bloops and a super enhanced bass guitar for the background running bass, horns and super high string sections. I have such strong hatred for what they did to this song in AC, because instead of using guitar to highlight a segment they just drowned the whole fucking thing out with TOO MUCH GUITAR. Instead of giving each layer its due, they blended them together and kind of covered up the fuckery with twenty guitars.
Similarly, this is the version of OWA I want to hear:
With less of a live sound/ more defined instruments. Orchestral. Perfect.
I know what you're saying about the "oomph" force, and I'm not saying no guitar. I'm saying less guitar. I'm saying the Black Mages have some amazing covers, but I don't want them producing the entire soundtrack.
What I'd like to see for JENOVA specifically is emphasis on the crazy melodical bleeps and bloops and a super enhanced bass guitar for the background running bass, horns and super high string sections. I have such strong hatred for what they did to this song in AC, because instead of using guitar to highlight a segment they just drowned the whole fucking thing out with TOO MUCH GUITAR. Instead of giving each layer its due, they blended them together and kind of covered up the fuckery with twenty guitars.
Similarly, this is the version of OWA I want to hear:
With less of a live sound/ more defined instruments. Orchestral. Perfect.
Tetsujin
he/they
- AKA
- Tets
The only thing I never liked about the orchestral OWA versions is that the part where they go "veni veni venias" sounds too subdued and whisper-y.
The original song felt really kind of menacing in that part, which I think was in part helped by the sort of 'mechanical' feel of the instruments and the choir. I don't really know how to explain it but yeah.
The music felt a bit like the Jaws theme or something, whereas that part in the orchestra versions has them go really quiet.
Jenova needs to be more synthetic than anything. The cover versions were all fun and stuff but there hasn't yet been a version that made me think "this is the original in better quality!" They were just that, covers.
The original song felt really kind of menacing in that part, which I think was in part helped by the sort of 'mechanical' feel of the instruments and the choir. I don't really know how to explain it but yeah.
The music felt a bit like the Jaws theme or something, whereas that part in the orchestra versions has them go really quiet.
Jenova needs to be more synthetic than anything. The cover versions were all fun and stuff but there hasn't yet been a version that made me think "this is the original in better quality!" They were just that, covers.
ForceStealer
Double Growth
I wasn't arguing for Jenova to have guitar. I was talking specifically about the guitar in Cosmo Canyon there. I like AC's JENOVA more than you do, clearly - and I also think it's a much tighter, crisper version than the Black Mages album version - but I would prefer it be played on synths in the game. I always liked JENOVA's almost euro-trance quality about it.
I was mostly just talking about people saying "JUST ORCHESTRAL. NONE OF THIS CRISIS CORE ROCK CRAP," and responding, well, hold on. Mako Reactor orchestrated wouldn't have the same feel at all. Still More Fighting is a straight rock song, but I wasn't really expecting the Black Mages version either since the one in the game is going to have to loop well. Obsessed People has to be a jazzy, reggae song, not orchestral, and so on.
I was mostly just talking about people saying "JUST ORCHESTRAL. NONE OF THIS CRISIS CORE ROCK CRAP," and responding, well, hold on. Mako Reactor orchestrated wouldn't have the same feel at all. Still More Fighting is a straight rock song, but I wasn't really expecting the Black Mages version either since the one in the game is going to have to loop well. Obsessed People has to be a jazzy, reggae song, not orchestral, and so on.
Lex
Administrator
Some tracks are going to sound good with rock, and I'm not saying they should all be devoid of guitar. I just don't want to end up listening to what is mostly a metal album when the thing gets remastered, and with the unexpected way JENOVA and OWA went in AC I don't think worrying about that is an overreaction.
Yeah, I definitely want crazy euro-synth JENOVA with some real instruments. I've been waiting to hear what that would sound like forever. Jenova Absolute and Birth of a God also.
Yeah, I definitely want crazy euro-synth JENOVA with some real instruments. I've been waiting to hear what that would sound like forever. Jenova Absolute and Birth of a God also.
trash panda
---m(O.O)gle---
- AKA
- Howl
All I know is that they better do Interrupted by Fireworks right. That is the song that inspired me to somewhat-learn and then completely forget how to play the piano.
I'm also a big fan of The Black Mages, but I'm not a fan of having their style of music in the remake. KEEP IT OG. Classical all the way.
I'm also a big fan of The Black Mages, but I'm not a fan of having their style of music in the remake. KEEP IT OG. Classical all the way.
Ⓐaron
Factiō Rēpūblicāna dēlenda est.
- AKA
- The Man, V
I have to agree that J-E-N-O-V-A hasn't been arranged correctly yet. It doesn't help that all of the Black Mages versions have had utterly terrible mastering, which sucked a lot of the dynamics out of the song. The result was that at parts where there was supposed to be a lot of punch there wasn't any.
Exactly. The fresh soundtrack needs a variety when it comes to music styles, instruments etc. To your list I would also add "Underneath the rotting pizza" and "Turk's theme". These two have some great potential for remastering/remixing. First track is very street-like, which in this case means deep bass, hard drums and some catchy, looped melody. Second one, IMO, needs some "The Neptunes" treatment. The groove reminds me of Drop it like it's hot or Grindin'
. That would be cool. Well, I have feeling that orchestrating some of OG tracks wouldn't be good...
ForceStealer
Double Growth
I was really surprised to see JENOVA on a Distant Worlds album. It's interesting, but that is not a song that really calls for orchestration. Not that hearing that bass line on upright basses wasn't cool, just...you have Jenova Absolute or Weapon Raid sitting out there...
While I am obviously not advocating for THIS track to be in the remake, I really like this Voices of the Lifestream version of Underneath the Rotting Pizza (and Oppressed People):
Again, I want something a bit more dynamic and closer to the original IN the game, but it's an example where rock can be used and work fantastically well.
While I am obviously not advocating for THIS track to be in the remake, I really like this Voices of the Lifestream version of Underneath the Rotting Pizza (and Oppressed People):
Again, I want something a bit more dynamic and closer to the original IN the game, but it's an example where rock can be used and work fantastically well.
Pixel
The Pixie King
Check out this little bit from an interview with Uematsu when asked about the possibility of a remake
https://youtu.be/t1QPNZ_bzlE?t=28m37s
"I personally think it would be a good idea, and from my standpoint if we were just to rearrange the music using some of the technologies we didn't have at the time, and were allowed to brush up some of the things that we couldn't do at the time, I would definitely go for it. But if they added something here and there to Final Fantasy VII, I wouldn't really be all for it. I don't think you would want to see the scenes that you know with the music that you know, and have me change them here and there. So rearranging meaning getting it up to the standards we have today is fine, but I wouldn't change a thing."
https://youtu.be/t1QPNZ_bzlE?t=28m37s
"I personally think it would be a good idea, and from my standpoint if we were just to rearrange the music using some of the technologies we didn't have at the time, and were allowed to brush up some of the things that we couldn't do at the time, I would definitely go for it. But if they added something here and there to Final Fantasy VII, I wouldn't really be all for it. I don't think you would want to see the scenes that you know with the music that you know, and have me change them here and there. So rearranging meaning getting it up to the standards we have today is fine, but I wouldn't change a thing."
Ⓐaron
Factiō Rēpūblicāna dēlenda est.
- AKA
- The Man, V
Sounds good to me. I think most of Uematsu's soundtracks from, oh, V through IX at least are pretty much note-perfect and wouldn't change a thing about them apart from, like he said, brushing them up to do things that the technology wasn't available to do at the time. I don't mind if they, like, add things to the songs or make new pieces for new parts of the game or whatever, but I don't want them changing the melodies we all know and love. I hope they at least consult with Uematsu for the remake's soundtrack, if not bring him on full time to work on it.
RedFFWolf
Donator
It's not just the content of the statement from Uematsu that is a pleasure to hear, but the fact that it was someone involved in the game in the first place who made the statement makes it even better - I really hope they value his input overall - after all, music is integral to the feelings and flow of a game, and Lord knows FFVII has its fair share of impactful music and moments
Ghost X
Moderator
I agree with the sentiments that the original soundtrack doesn't need to change much, if at all. The less added elements the better. Just an upgrade from the midi files, replacing respective sounds with real instruments or high definition electric stuff . Having said this, simply doing such a thing could add a "flavour" of sorts to the music, which I may not like .
. Having said this, simply doing such a thing could add a "flavour" of sorts to the music, which I may not like .
Wimbly
Garden Festival Retiree
I seriously hope they do justice to J-E-N-O-V-A. That is one of my favorite battle themes in final fantasy, in my mind it just captures what a desperate struggle against a dire enemy should be. Perfect track for a heroic stand against an unnatural alien entity.
Please let it be masterful and inspiring!
Please let it be masterful and inspiring!
X-SOLDIER
Harbinger O Great Justice
- AKA
- X
So, I think that there're a few tracks in there that have small considerations that have always stood out to me, and I think that they depart a bit from the rest of the soundtrack.
Trail of Blood
This track is Parasite Eve-like in how it's really horror creepy and atmospheric (especially because there's no battle music in the ShinRa HQ while this track is playing). It has this light drumming that would work WONDERFULLY with the sort of heartbeat effect that Beyond the Wasteland uses -- in fact, there are a lot of parallels between Trail of Blood up to 1:45 in that track. While it would work well as an instrumental track, between Trail of Blood's 1:00 - 2:00 marks you get some of the electronic effects (which, while it turns to an upbeat chase track after 1:45, Beyond the Wasteland has with electric guitar). It even builds up to these little haunting near-vocalizations before it loops back to the haunting strings instruments. Keeping the mix of all of those things and slowly creeping them in to the soundtrack is pretty important, but it's one of the ones that I think that sits VERY strongly in the wheelhouse of what we've seen them pull off in the past for capturing the sort of horror fear that this piece invokes.
Who Are You?
This is the "Cloud is going crazy" music. As much as it isn't really a theme of any sort, it's one of those tracks that the second it starts playing it's straight chills to the spine and a knowledge that you're seeing and hearing things that aren't really there. It's not horror like Trail of Blood, but it's a more visceral and empty haunting fear. For me this was THE defining track for Cloud early on -- especially because of things like the Honeybee Inn scene:
It's paired with other tinnitus-like ringing and surreal sounds while Cloud is watching other versions of himself in the room, and blacking out. These are the scene's where I'm really interested to see how they handle the visual aspects of Cloud not knowing who he is, and half-remembering Zack as himself, and this is a piece that uses its echo and emptiness to reinforce the feeling of Cloud's blurred personality.
Then it finally culminates into this:
Who Am I?
This is the track that plays while Tifa's roaming around in Cloud's Lifestream shattered mind. What's important to me is that we get the theme that you (can) play on Tifa's piano during the flashback playing in a rather creepy electronic tone, but in the background is the continual up and down of an old, slightly out of tune piano, all with the sort of Midgar-like electronic bass undertones.
It's mostly unsettling because it's discordant and a little familiar, but not right. It's an incorrect mixing of themes that underscores the fact that Cloud isn't well, and he's blurring things together. It's one of those tracks that has a lot of little things that piece it together that are actually important from a compositional standpoint that have to play against the way that the other main themes and tracks are composed because it borrows from them.
X
Trail of Blood
This track is Parasite Eve-like in how it's really horror creepy and atmospheric (especially because there's no battle music in the ShinRa HQ while this track is playing). It has this light drumming that would work WONDERFULLY with the sort of heartbeat effect that Beyond the Wasteland uses -- in fact, there are a lot of parallels between Trail of Blood up to 1:45 in that track. While it would work well as an instrumental track, between Trail of Blood's 1:00 - 2:00 marks you get some of the electronic effects (which, while it turns to an upbeat chase track after 1:45, Beyond the Wasteland has with electric guitar). It even builds up to these little haunting near-vocalizations before it loops back to the haunting strings instruments. Keeping the mix of all of those things and slowly creeping them in to the soundtrack is pretty important, but it's one of the ones that I think that sits VERY strongly in the wheelhouse of what we've seen them pull off in the past for capturing the sort of horror fear that this piece invokes.
Who Are You?
This is the "Cloud is going crazy" music. As much as it isn't really a theme of any sort, it's one of those tracks that the second it starts playing it's straight chills to the spine and a knowledge that you're seeing and hearing things that aren't really there. It's not horror like Trail of Blood, but it's a more visceral and empty haunting fear. For me this was THE defining track for Cloud early on -- especially because of things like the Honeybee Inn scene:
It's paired with other tinnitus-like ringing and surreal sounds while Cloud is watching other versions of himself in the room, and blacking out. These are the scene's where I'm really interested to see how they handle the visual aspects of Cloud not knowing who he is, and half-remembering Zack as himself, and this is a piece that uses its echo and emptiness to reinforce the feeling of Cloud's blurred personality.
Then it finally culminates into this:
Who Am I?
This is the track that plays while Tifa's roaming around in Cloud's Lifestream shattered mind. What's important to me is that we get the theme that you (can) play on Tifa's piano during the flashback playing in a rather creepy electronic tone, but in the background is the continual up and down of an old, slightly out of tune piano, all with the sort of Midgar-like electronic bass undertones.
It's mostly unsettling because it's discordant and a little familiar, but not right. It's an incorrect mixing of themes that underscores the fact that Cloud isn't well, and he's blurring things together. It's one of those tracks that has a lot of little things that piece it together that are actually important from a compositional standpoint that have to play against the way that the other main themes and tracks are composed because it borrows from them.
X
Ite
Save your valediction (she/her)
- AKA
- Ite
Like most of us, I hope that the instrument 'samples' used in the PSX soundtrack are orchestrated for PS4, and that the synths remain synths. Mixing and mastering is going to be just as important as the quality of the samples -- I imagine that instead of a small lineup of solo instruments, there will be a more orchestral style, with sections (or at least section samples) this could easily remove or shift focus, for good or ill? Only time will tell I suppose. With the OST, I found the levels to be mostly perfect ("If You Open Your Heart" is an exception imo... jesus that piccolo is loud)
Relevant article I found interesting: http://www.videogamemusicacademy.com/7-music-theory-lessons-main-theme-final-fantasy-vii/
edit: After reading that article, I have a hope for the Main Theme. While I love the Shiro Hamaguchi orchestration, I really hope they stay true to the OG theme -- the rolling timpani coming out of Section C always pumps me up. I mean, I like the little "John Williams flutes" in the Hamaguchi piece, but, in the OG, the section before the key-change is bombastic and appropriate for epic adventure. It's also the part of the piece where the woodwinds get to carry the melody, whereas Hamaguchi only uses woodwinds to colour the strings and the trumpet (I think it's also a french horn in the OG). ANYWAY, my point is, the orchestration is wonderful for concert performances, but I hope they don't replace the real track with it.
Relevant article I found interesting: http://www.videogamemusicacademy.com/7-music-theory-lessons-main-theme-final-fantasy-vii/
edit: After reading that article, I have a hope for the Main Theme. While I love the Shiro Hamaguchi orchestration, I really hope they stay true to the OG theme -- the rolling timpani coming out of Section C always pumps me up. I mean, I like the little "John Williams flutes" in the Hamaguchi piece, but, in the OG, the section before the key-change is bombastic and appropriate for epic adventure. It's also the part of the piece where the woodwinds get to carry the melody, whereas Hamaguchi only uses woodwinds to colour the strings and the trumpet (I think it's also a french horn in the OG). ANYWAY, my point is, the orchestration is wonderful for concert performances, but I hope they don't replace the real track with it.
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Starling
Pro Adventurer
BitSymphony has some nice remixes, though they're generally not quite what I think would be suited for the remake, though some come close.
Wutai
Sounds pretty close to what I figure the updated track will probably end up being.
Mako reactor
The bits that sound like they're supposed to be sounds from the mako reactor don't sound quite right to me for some reason.
Shinra Corporation
J-E-N-O-V-A
As nice as it is, it feels like something's missing, posisbly a layer of the counter-melody. There's a lot going on in the original version so I wouldn't be surprised.
The Great Warrior Seto
It would probably be better off starting softer.
Birth Of a God
A bit too quiet.
Judgement Day
Needs more of that percussion sound or whatever in the beginning.
Forested Temple
Reunion
Flowers Blooming in the Church
Probably my favorite.
What do you think?
Wutai
Sounds pretty close to what I figure the updated track will probably end up being.
Mako reactor
The bits that sound like they're supposed to be sounds from the mako reactor don't sound quite right to me for some reason.
Shinra Corporation
J-E-N-O-V-A
As nice as it is, it feels like something's missing, posisbly a layer of the counter-melody. There's a lot going on in the original version so I wouldn't be surprised.
The Great Warrior Seto
It would probably be better off starting softer.
Birth Of a God
A bit too quiet.
Judgement Day
Needs more of that percussion sound or whatever in the beginning.
Forested Temple
Reunion
Flowers Blooming in the Church
Probably my favorite.
What do you think?
Channy
Bad Habit
- AKA
- Ruby Rose, Lucy
Hnngh... this has always been one of my all time favourite songs and hearing this remake just does beautiful justice to it.
Cloud_S
Pro Adventurer
I've been listening to the G-Bike tracks often and recently went back to the original VII OST. I found myself missing some of the added percussion and/or realistic instruments.
I think having new or revised music for towns that share tracks would be best. Traveling all the way to Rocket Town only to hear the Wall Street music? However "Anxious Heart" does work very well for Nibelheim, so instead of a new piece, perhaps a slightly altered tune should play (or alter it where it also is used).
I think having new or revised music for towns that share tracks would be best. Traveling all the way to Rocket Town only to hear the Wall Street music? However "Anxious Heart" does work very well for Nibelheim, so instead of a new piece, perhaps a slightly altered tune should play (or alter it where it also is used).
ForceStealer
Double Growth
On my latest trip through the game, I'm amazed by just how often Anxious Heart plays. And the variety of situations to which it does. It speaks to the success of the presentation that, despite this, the song is strongly linked to Nibelheim, Cloud, and Tifa in my mind.