The Turks' Hidden Base.

[X-SOLDIER]

So, in reading through the BC Transcripts over on Gunshot Romance, The Turks are operating out of a hidden base during the time that they attempt to find Zack and Cloud at the end of Crisis Core. In fact, it's the location that Cissnei & Tseng would have been having this conversation, as well as where Tseng would have kept Zack's letters (in the video below).

I'm wondering if there's any idea as to where this location is. It'd have to be close enough that they'd be able to look for Zack & Cloud, but still be able to remain hidden from ShinRa. Are there any hints as to where it's located in the game?


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[LicoriceAllsorts]

SandG can give you a better informed answer than I, but as far as I am aware, it's supposed to be a secret hidden floor between floors in the Shinra building. However, this doesn't make much sense, since they're holding Rufus as kind of leverage towards the end of the game and his father doesn't know where he is. Even supposing President didn't actually know the plans for his own building, which seems unlikely, Reeve would know, so if they were holding him anywhere inside the Shinra building, it wouldn't be hard to find him and send in SOLDIER to 'rescue' him. (Though Rufus probably doesn't want to be rescued.) I reckon a much better hiding place would be inside the plate. That idiot Hollander hid out in there for ages; he even ran a clone factory there. If he could do it, then the Turks certainly can.

There are a lot of such things in BC that don't quite make sense, though you can make them make sense with a little mental contortionism.

 

[Roger]

They've got the green glow of a active Mako reactor behind the building behind tseng as well as next to the helicopter, they're definitely in Midgar.

 

[X-SOLDIER]

I'm hoping S&G has some insight, because it seems like it's in Midgar, but it doesn't seem like a place they'd be able to remain inconspicuous and hold Rufus... (especially because Case of ShinRa shows that The Pres has secret compartments that Rufus didn't know of, I doubt the Turks would've snuck a while sub floor by him).


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[LicoriceAllsorts]

No - in fact the President knows about the secret floor; he's the one who orders Tseng to hold Rufus there after Rufus' involvement with AVALANCHE comes out in the open. It would seem highly improbable that he'd know the Turks HAD such a floor without knowing where it was. On the other hand, the Turks know nothing about HIS secret escape route or hidden chambers, and I don't think they know about Deepground either (though in my personal canon I disregard DoC anyway).

So why, once the Turks turn renegade and are holding Rufus as leverage, does the President not send SOLDIER to the secret floor to snatch his son back? The reason given, as far as I know, is that he's afraid to do anything that might bring Rufus' role in AVALANCHE out in to the open. It's plausible, but only just. The whole thing becomes much more plausible if you assume the Turks are holding Rufus in a secret location where his father will never find him. But I don't think the game states that that's the case.

 

[S and G]

You guys are right that it is never explicitly stated where the Turks HQ actually is, but there are a few pointers as to where it may be. As far as I can make out, the secret Turks HQ is actually in the upper floors of the Shinra Building. Two perfect examples of this are the opening scenes of chapters 10 and 20. This piece of dialogue from chapter 10 (courtesy of Dark Angel's translations) backs this up:

In the Turks HQ, Veld has been apprised of the situation.]

Veld
Everyone, get ready to leave!

Tseng
Sir. Has something happened?

Veld
A monster outbreak. Rosalind, get down there and contain the
monsters.

Tseng
Sir, please wait. Where are these monsters?

Veld
Right here in Headquarters!

If you watch the video of chapter 10, the player Turk's first mission is to kill the monsters loose on the top floors of Shinra HQ. Verdot tells the player to 'get down there' from the Turks' HQ (rather than 'get down here' had the player been at a different location) which suggests that the secret base is in the higher levels. The mission begins on the 65th floor. Similarly, in chapter 20, there are Shinra soldiers searching for the Turks' HQ in Shinra HQ and, based upon Tseng's dialogue, there is a short time between the player meeting Cait Sith and returning to the Turks' HQ which again suggests it is close by. I hope this provides enough information for you.

On a side note, bear in mind that the Turks also belong to the General Affairs Dept. Although the Turks' HQ is a secret location, the General Affairs is not. The room Tseng is seen in both in Last Order and Crisis Core does not match the layout, design or description of the Turks' HQ. This suggests that the office itself belongs to General Affairs, which would make sense because (as far as I'm aware) the Chief of the Turks is also the Director of General Affairs (in Verdot's case anyway).

As for the President not going after Rufus, it had nothing to do with him not knowing where the HQ was. It was about him not wanting to be blackmailed by the Turks for their knowledge on what Rufus had been up to.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

As for the President not going after Rufus, it had nothing to do with him not knowing where the HQ was. It was about him not wanting to be blackmailed by the Turks for their knowledge on what Rufus had been up to.

Yes, I know you're right, Mo. The 'secret base' is in the Shinra building, and the President knows where it is, and he knows that that is where they're keeping Rufus, and it's his fear of what the Turks will reveal about Rufus that stops him taking action. Yet at the same time he continually talks about taking action against them; it's rather contradictory, or else as if he can't quite screw his courage to the sticking point.

 

[X-SOLDIER]

Thanks much for that guys.

Given that information, I'd have to hypothesize that it's between floors 68 & 69. Floor 69 is essentially just a fancy connector to the President's Office on the top floor with no security. Despite requiring 3 security fields to get from 68 to 69, I still highly doubt that the only layer of security between Hojo's mad science experiments and the President is that - especially since Hojo is able to bypass it as shown in Episode 10. Of all the places to have a seceret layer of security, this location is by far the most logical.

Also - with the mission during Episode 10, Fuhito is specifically getting the Turks away from Hojo, meaning that they have to go down to 65 and work their way back up. (Hojo states that Fuhito has a fairly intimate knowledge of the building's layout when they meet up). In addition to that, Fuhito plans to escape by using the Helicopters that are accessed by Floor 69 - something that the Turks CONSTANTLY have access to, even when they're in hiding between Episodes 20 & 21 when they're attempting to rescue Zack.


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[LicoriceAllsorts]

I was trying to puzzle out what the inconsistency was about the whole 'secret base'/blackmail thing that was niggling away at me, and I've just figured it out: the President isn't consistently afraid.

If the President is so worried about the possibility that the Turks might blackmail him over Rufus that he dares not invade their secret base, directly below his own penthouse, in order to get his son back, why is he suddenly not scared of blackmail when he decides to execute their beloved Veld? Why do they have to go to all the trouble of crawling through sewers etc... to get their Chief back, when they could simply threaten to reveal what they know about Rufus? The only way the President can eliminate the threat of public exposure is by eliminating all the Turks simultaneously. Does he ever try to do this?

 

[X-SOLDIER]

I was trying to puzzle out what the inconsistency was about the whole 'secret base'/blackmail thing that was niggling away at me, and I've just figured it out: the President isn't consistently afraid.

If the President is so worried about the possibility that the Turks might blackmail him over Rufus that he dares not invade their secret base, directly below his own penthouse, in order to get his son back, why is he suddenly not scared of blackmail when he decides to execute their beloved Veld? Why do they have to go to all the trouble of crawling through sewers etc... to get their Chief back, when they could simply threaten to reveal what they know about Rufus? The only way the President can eliminate the threat of public exposure is by eliminating all the Turks simultaneously. Does he ever try to do this?

He does give Scarlet the kill all the Turks order at the end of Episode 20.

President Shinra

Damn those Turks… (Thought) If Rufus wasn't in their hands… I can't let Scarlet or the others know his whereabouts either. (Getting a brainwave) That's it… I'll give Scarlet the order to assassinate the Turks. With them gone, any intelligence compromises would also be taken care of. And then I can get Rufus back [without anybody knowing (6)]. (Laughs) This is perfect.


President Shinra

Scarlet, I'm giving you full authorization to use any means at your disposal. I want the Turks – all of them – dead.

[NARRATION: Putting everything they had on the line, the Turks continued their search for the remaining materia. Meanwhile President Shinra had unexpectedly called for the Turks' demise. The day of the Turks' destruction crept up on them, unknown…]

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Yes, that's it... But.... they're still alive when he's planning to execute Veld. Alive, able, and willing to spill the beans...

I need to go back and read the script again. I know that usually, when I think Square have left a plothole, a more careful reading will reveal that it was my mistake.

 

[X-SOLDIER]

President Shinra
So it's unanimous. The executive hereby votes to disband the Turks.

Scarlet
Kya ha ha.

President Shinra
(Thought) We've got Veld. He'll be the leverage to get Rufus back. Time is on my side. I can deal with the disposal of Veld and the Turks at my leisure. The fate of those who betray Shin-Ra is simple. (Out loud) Make a company wide announcement:

President Shinra
The General Affairs Division Investigative Department ex-leader, Veld, will be executed on the noon of 10/5.

It's because at that point, they think that anything they do against him within that time, he'll just off Veld right away. Then after they go on the rescue mission:

President Shinra
(Thought) Damn the Turks… They got Veld, did they? Well, it doesn't matter. There's nobody at the Turks headquarters right now. I can get Rufus. Once that's done, everything will fall into place. All that will be left to do is eliminate Veld and the Turks wholesale.

Proof that he DOES know where the Turks' HQ is, and it's close enough that he'd be able to just obtain Rufus.

President Shinra
Now, why don't you tell me: What were your four years of penitence under the Turks' care like?

Rufus
(Gives a short, amused laugh) I hated you for what you'd done at first, but now I daresay I'm grateful. It's thanks to you that my view of the world has changed. I've learned so much in my time alone. (Thought) And… it's brought me to this time and this place; an even better chance to grasp the reins of the company for myself.

I believe that things are put in place after that with Rufus managing things, but her transcriptions end at 24, before you find out what Rufus wanted to talk to his dad about.

President Shinra
It's unusually bright outside tonight. The light that shines out there tonight is like the future of the Shin-Ra Company. As it stands right now, the only thing getting in the way of that future is the Turks.

Rufus
Father, er, no, excuse me. Mr. President, I have a proposal for you: one that will surely ensure the glory of this company.

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[LicoriceAllsorts]

It's a bit of a Mexican stand-off, isn't it? These are Turks we're talking about, the same people who scant months later squish thousands of innocent people under a slice of concrete pizza. Yes, Veld can be used as leverage against them, but Rufus can also be used as leverage. If the Prez snuffs Veld, they might just decide to snuff Rufus. President Shinra never seems to worry about that. He never says, "We better make sure no harm comes to Veld, otherwise Rufus might start arriving home via the mailbox, piece by piece." If it were my kid, I would definitely worry.

I should add that once you've executed a hostage, he's no longer any use as leverage. No attempt is made to negotiate with the Turks. The President is just going to go ahead and kill Veld.

Also, Scarlet's given the order to exterminate the Turks in February. By October, how many are dead? Nil. Not only that, but they still have complete access to company helicopters and such and are flying their own agenda trying to rescue Zack. Not only that, but when Scarlet does manage to catch one, she lets her go, Kya-ha-ha. The level of incompetence in this company is truly astounding.

I'm only quibbling. I really love this game and this daft story. And if it made sense, it wouldn't be Final Fantasy.

 

[X-SOLDIER]

It's a bit of a Mexican stand-off, isn't it? These are Turks we're talking about, the same people who scant months later squish thousands of innocent people under a slice of concrete pizza. Yes, Veld can be used as leverage against them, but Rufus can also be used as leverage. If the Prez snuffs Veld, they might just decide to snuff Rufus. President Shinra never seems to worry about that. He never says, "We better make sure no harm comes to Veld, otherwise Rufus might start arriving home via the mailbox, piece by piece." If it were my kid, I would definitely worry.

Yeah, my thoughts exactly. I think that the President is a little off, but aside from the Case of ShinRa secret door, and them talking afterwards, you don't really get a good feel for how much he really cares for Rufus' well being. I also don't see the Turks killing Rufus, because he's been helping them, and they trust him to a greater degree, and I think that the President knows they won't kill him.

I should add that once you've executed a hostage, he's no longer any use as leverage. No attempt is made to negotiate with the Turks. The President is just going to go ahead and kill Veld.

I think that the execution is the only reliable way to make the Turks focus enough to get them ALL out of their HQ.

Also, Scarlet's given the order to exterminate the Turks in February. By October, how many are dead? Nil. Not only that, but they still have complete access to company helicopters and such and are flying their own agenda trying to rescue Zack. Not only that, but when Scarlet does manage to catch one, she lets her go, Kya-ha-ha. The level of incompetence in this company is truly astounding.

Shit, that happens back in Feb?! Hahaha, I totally forgot about that. Scarlet is a crazy, incompetent bitch. I don't know if it's because she's SO busy looking outside that she never checks what's right under her nose, or what. Her letting the (player) go doesn't really fit the Corel-ruining, gas-chambering-Tifa, knew-about-Deepground, Sister-Ray-modifying, individual she acts like some of the time.

I'm only quibbling. I really love this game and this daft story. And if it made sense, it wouldn't be Final Fantasy.

Same. 100%




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[LicoriceAllsorts]

I see your point about luring them all out to Veld's execution - but why would they all go, leaving the base unprotected, even though they know that the President knows where it is, and not take Rufus with them? With a big paper bag over his head, or something. Rufus would want to go; he's thrown in his lot with theirs by this point anyway.

They're so endearing.

 

[X-SOLDIER]

I see your point about luring them all out to Veld's execution - but why would they all go, leaving the base unprotected, even though they know that the President knows where it is, and not take Rufus with them? With a big paper bag over his head, or something. Rufus would want to go; he's thrown in his lot with theirs by this point anyway.

They're so endearing.

It could be that they figure that Rufus is worth "losing" if they can get to Veld in time, especially since Rufus seems to be on their side more than his old man, he might be able to convince his dad to keep the Turks around, and not leave them as fugitives (which is essentially what happens).


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[The Twilight Mexican]

I need to go back and read the script again. I know that usually, when I think Square have left a plothole, a more careful reading will reveal that it was my mistake.

That's exactly what they want you to think.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

That's exactly what they want you to think.

I am utterly their creature.