The WEAPONS are here. And they're pissed. *SPOILERS*

[Dark and Divine]

But as powerful as Avalanche is, their combined forces failed to keep Diamond WEAPON interested in them long enough to even finish their battle. It didn't view them as a viable threat and turned away to Mako-sucking Midgar. And this isn't so far from the final battles of the game.

But the fact that Diamond Weapon didn't squash them at sight and continued in its way to Midgar is a sign of Avalanche's strength.

Diamond was going to destroy Midgar either way, because of the threat it posed for the Planet, but it didn't ignored Avalanche straight away, it battled them because they posed a threat to its existence.

Only when it sensed the eight Mako Reactors sucking an abnormal flux of Lifestream, Diamond Weapon, whose mission was to protect the Planet, turned its full attention to Midgar, obeying its prime directive, because its main concern was the threat to the Planet, not the threat to its own existence (i. e. Avalanche).

 

[Max Payne]

Diamond wasn't concerned with Avalanche from the start. He had a one track mind, and regardless of their heckling he did what he set out to do.

I still lol @ everyone how everyone always compares Avalanche to SOLDIER, when they smash 1st Class SOLDIERS throughout the latter half of the game. And that's in teams of 3. It seems like people seem to think that 1st class SOLDIERS are all in the same league as the big 4, when those were the exception rather than the rule. Avalanche is probably at the same level as 1st class SOLDIERs, they'd have to be to have achieved what they did.

 

[Arianna]

So, given Sephiroth's power in FF7, could Sephiroth take the WEAPONS? Individually? All at one time? What do you think? Keep in mind this includes Sapphire, Emerald, Ruby, Diamond, and Ultimate.

I don't think that WEAPON would destroy a human being because a human being is a natural part of the planet, despite what they do to the planet; that said, I do believe that WEAPON would destroy the mako reactors as well as Meteor. In fact, I believe that's what woke them up, when Sephiroth completed the call for the 'ultimate destruction magic'.

Human inventions such as the mako reactors were not good for the planet, but they alone were not a dire threat to the planet as a whole. If they were, WEAPON would have woken up way long time ago, before the start of the story. Diamond only seemed to be swayed away from fighting with the AVALANCHE team when the mako cannon was ready to fire.. As Dark and Divine said, "...when it sensed the eight Mako Reactors sucking an abnormal flux of Lifestream..."

Do I think Sephiroth could have taken them on and won? By himself? No comes to mind, but I can believe he'd give them a good fight. I don't believe Sephiroth was WEAPON's target; I do believe that they were aware of him, as they were aware of humans behind the mako cannon, but I don't believe they were the targets, as said. Now, I think if he went after them individually, then yes, I do believe he'd win. But, I don't believe Sephiroth intended to do anything by himself, directly.

 

[Max Payne]

What.

The Mako reactors were killing the planet.

How is that not dire?

 

[Arianna]

What.

The Mako reactors were killing the planet.

How is that not dire?

Not as dire as a meteor that will kill the planet.

And, if the mako reactors were doing that much damage, why didn't the WEAPON wake up before?

They were created 2000 years ago, when the meteor Jenova was inhabiting first crashed into the planet...

I'm not saying the mako reactors were a good thing, I'm just saying overall they weren't as much of a threat, normal use.

Of course, this is my thinking and opinion, so I could be wrong.

 

[Makoeyes987]

The WEAPONs specifically *saw* people as a threat to the planet. That's why Ultima WEAPON kept attacking human settlements when you chased it across the world. It's why Sapphire WEAPON attacked Junon. Humans were the target. They wanted to destroy all threats to the planet and invigorate the planet with spirit energy.

And yeah, in the game, the party comments on how Diamond WEAPON's attention was dirverted to Midgar when the reactors drew forth a large amount of spirit energy from the planet to power the Sister Ray. That made it lose its focus on the part and go towards Midgar to destroy it.

 

[Arianna]

The WEAPONs specifically *saw* people as a threat to the planet. That's why Ultima WEAPON kept attacking human settlements when you chased it across the world. It's why Sapphire WEAPON attacked Junon. Humans were the target. They wanted to destroy all threats to the planet and invigorate the planet with spirit energy.

Point taken. I stand corrected.

Still then, to me, why would WEAPON have not woken up sooner?

 

[Cat Rage Room]

LOL Avalanche isn't relatively normal at all Omega. I don't know where you're getting that. They've beaten ridiculously powerful monsters on their own, fought off a trained military, and defeated a borderline god in his home turf.

They're freaks.

No, but I meant they're more or less unenhanced, with the exception of Cloud and Vincent. They're a band of normal people that got extremely powerful through circumstances. They didn't get a one up in power by being part of a experimental super soldier program or having a heavenly gift or anything.

 

[null.]

But didn't they make extensive use of materia?

 

[Max Payne]

They're who they are precisely because they were never that normal.

They had the potential to become superhuman freaks, which eventually happened over the course of their adventure. They were never "normal" that's why they were the heroes man.

Just because most of them didn't get their strength from experiments, does not make them "normal". I mean really, look at who they were before they all got together banded together as the big 7. Barret is a gunarm wielding terrorist who's been fighting off military police for years, Tifa a bar-tending martial artist who can pile drive machines and take down armed soliders with her bare hands, Red XIII a large feral creature with a fiery tail and the ability to speak and take down most foes with his superior agility and claws, Yuffie a 16 year old ninja girl who handles a giant shuriken like a toy, and Aerith is the last survivor of an ancient race with the power to commune with the lifeforce of the planet.
These people were never normal man. Materia also has effects on a person's body that enhances their skills and abilities as well, so you can't really say they don't get "enhanced" over time.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

I'll accede to you there. I'm not saying that they weren't 'normal' in the sense that their accomplishments were never a big deal, I'm just saying that at their base, they're all just normal humans, with the exception of Cloud, Vince, and Red XIII. And Aerith I suppose. While AVALANCHE were the ones to go all the way and save the world, I guess the fact there there are also other very powerful individuals in the FFVII world dilutes it. Not that its a bad thing.

Also, anyone can use Materia, as long as they find it.

 

[Max Payne]

That doesn't dillute it at all.

No one else in their world achieved what they did. At their base they're humans, but they're not "normal" by any means as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

That doesn't dillute it at all.

Depends on how you look at it.

No one else in their world achieved what they did.

How many people tried that we know of?

At their base they're humans, but they're not "normal" by any means as far as I'm concerned.

That's what I meant.

 

[Max Payne]

Depends on how you look at it.

Yeah, if you look at it wrong

How many people tried that we know of?

That just makes them all the more special.

That's what I meant.

Well it's obvious they're still human, even Cloud and Vincent are still human

 

[Cat Rage Room]

I mean, maybe I should have explained it better.

In many RPGs, (and fictional stories), the situation can fall into a few areas.

A. The heroes are the only ones to defeat the bad guys not because they're the only ones who tried, far from it, in some games/movies/comics/etc you hear how dozens/hundreds whatever of extremely powerful warriors before the heroes tried and failed to defeat the badguy, and somehow the heroes actually do it.

B. On the other hand, some stories have the heroes who are the only ones to even attempt saving the world, because everyone else is too lazy, scared, or just don't even know in the first place. Wild Arms 2 had this as a major theme, because the main characters non-combatant love interest hated that he was the one that everyone called a 'hero' (and therefore had to risk his life) while everyone else (including major powers) just sat with their hands on their asses and did nothing.

and these scenarios are resolved because

1. The group of heroes are the chosen ones since the dawn of time by some deity, a spirit, or destiny itself. Not only are the odds stacked for them, in some stories they cannot lose, and in any scenario that they do, it's an anomaly on the part of the player (see:FF8). If not that, the main characters or heroes are blessed with a power/weapon/ability that no one else in the world has, so they may be the only ones literally who could even do anything about it.

2. Some stories have it that an unlikely group of heroes band together to defeat some entity that they really have no chance or even no business fighting in the first place. Through a combination of luck, willpower, or badassery, they do what they should have no real capability in doing, and defeat gods because they're just that baller. I believe that FF7 falls into this.

 

[Max Payne]

Some stories have it that an unlikely group of heroes band together to defeat some entity that they really have no chance or even no business fighting in the first place. Through a combination of luck, willpower, or badassery, they do what they should have no real capability in doing, and defeat gods because they're just that baller. I believe that FF7 falls into this.

They defeated their enemies BECAUSE they had the capability, through their skill, willpower, and badassery. They're not some rabble of everyday folk that just magically got where they are because of luck or circumstance. They were badasses by themselves, but together they were a force of nature.

If anyone had any business trying to save their world it was Avalanche, because they were the one with the most potential for greatness. These people defeated Giant Warmachines powered by the lifeforce sucked from the planet, monstrous creatures that could shake the foundations of the their world, fought off a government organization that was the most powerful force in the human world for a while, and ultimately saved the world from armageddon at the hands of a near deity.

That's not something that can be achieved, by just anyone who happened to be thrust into those situations. It takes natural strength, skill, and intelligence to survive that kind of shit and come out in one piece much less on top.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

So can we mutually agree that AVALANCHE was just that baller?

 

[Max Payne]

Sure.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Point taken. I stand corrected.

Still then, to me, why would WEAPON have not woken up sooner?

I guess before then, too much shit wasn't happening at once like it was during the game.

 

[Max Payne]

WEAPONS are a last resort.

The world was literally going in the fucking shitter when they got raised from the depths.

 

[Blue]

Wasn't the question about the WEAPON's motivations already answered in one of the FF QnA interviews? Pretty sure it was on this site, too.

 

[Joker]

Diamond wasn't concerned with Avalanche from the start. He had a one track mind, and regardless of their heckling he did what he set out to do.

I still lol @ everyone how everyone always compares Avalanche to SOLDIER, when they smash 1st Class SOLDIERS throughout the latter half of the game. And that's in teams of 3. It seems like people seem to think that 1st class SOLDIERS are all in the same league as the big 4, when those were the exception rather than the rule. Avalanche is probably at the same level as 1st class SOLDIERs, they'd have to be to have achieved what they did.

Problem is, Diamond was jetting towards Midgar when you walk out of the Forgotten Capital, yeah? If it was so unconcerned with the agreeably baller AVALANCHE, then why did it stop in the first place? It sure as shit wouldn't stop if I walked up and said "yo muthafucka, gtfo an' shit!". It would either bypass me entirely, or step on me. The fact that it stopped and engaged the peeps in a fight is a clear indication that it DID view them as a threat.

And yeah, wtf? Every member of AVALANCHE is certainly more than a match for 1st Class Soldiers =/ Even Cait Sith!

 

[Max Payne]

Well yeah I don't mean to imply that it didn't view them as a threat, but it still had it's ultimate goal at the forefront of its concerns.

Lol Cait Sith.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Problem is, Diamond was jetting towards Midgar when you walk out of the Forgotten Capital, yeah? If it was so unconcerned with the agreeably baller AVALANCHE, then why did it stop in the first place? It sure as shit wouldn't stop if I walked up and said "yo muthafucka, gtfo an' shit!". It would either bypass me entirely, or step on me. The fact that it stopped and engaged the peeps in a fight is a clear indication that it DID view them as a threat.

And yeah, wtf? Every member of AVALANCHE is certainly more than a match for 1st Class Soldiers =/ Even Cait Sith!

It did view them as a threat enough to stop, but not enough to continue fighting or even make a dent. It was just like 'well, that's nice. Anyway...' and walked off.

Well yeah I don't mean to imply that it didn't view them as a threat, but it still had it's ultimate goal at the forefront of its concerns.

Yeah this.

 

[Max Payne]

It was more like "I DON'T HAVE TIME FOR THIS SHIT, LET'S BOUNCE" then cue explosions.