SPOILERS Tifa a bit selfish in remake?

[LivingLegacy]

As much as I love Tifa, in the remake she comes off to me as selfish, at times.

After the plate crash when Barret is having an emotional meltdown over losing Biggs, Wedge, and Jessie (and thinking Marlene has died).

What is Tifas response? “It was us. We did this.”

How harsh and unfeeling can you be? It Basically comes off as “yeah, you’re responsible for your daughter and friends dying.” I understand she was struggling with her own inner turmoil about avalanches radical and devastating actions, but I found the timing inappropriate and cold as ice.

She also tried to persuade Cloud not to go after aerith after her capture. Aerith on the other hand puts herself in danger to go rescue tifa from corneo and then saves Marlene by going to shinra in exchange for her safety.

Anyone else feel this way? I’ve tried to rationalize this internally because of my love for her character, but I have a hard time defending it. If you have a different way of seeing this I’d love to hear it.

 

[Eerie]

Lol what... Barret needed a reality check there, he refused to aknowledge that his own actions led to the disaster. Tifa was the only one in the group who feared what their actions could bring to others, she was the only one who actually was worrying about the others...

As for Tifa persuading Cloud to not go after Aerith after her capture, are you sure you aren't a troll? Because it's VERY clear that she wants to give Elmyra space and let her think about it, because it's no use going against her own wish. Tifa says it next morning, they ALL wish to save Aerith. But they needed Elmyra's approval, because hell, it's her mother, and she was the one who had the most to lose - and had dealt with Shinra for years already.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Tifa, cold as ice?
Tifa knows Marlene is okay. Eerie is spot on: Tifa's the one thinking about others, the one who refuses to accept that their desire for revenge gives them the right to wreak collateral damage on innocent bystanders.
Tifa has respect for Elmyra; she respects Elmyra's knowledge of Shinra. Given the kid gloves Shinra has been using with Aerith up till that point, it's reasonable to suppose that having Avalanche rushing in to save her might do more harm than good.
Wow - I mean, Barret dumps his kid on Elmyra so he can keep fighting Shinra, but somehow that's not selfish because Elmyra said she'd do it, but when Tifa listens to what Elmyra wants, that somehow makes Tifa selfish?
But you know what, even if Tifa IS selfish sometimes, what's wrong with that? What the fuck is wrong with Tifa considering her own needs once in a while? Despite the fact that she's a woman, she's allowed to think about herself and put her own feelings first sometimes.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

The thing I see getting brought up about Tifa more (which is ridiculous) is that her character revolves too much around Cloud and his needs and not enough around herself. It's like she can't win no matter what her characterization is!

 

[Makoeyes987]

Thinking of how their actions reverberate and impact the people around them gets you labeled as selfish now?

Yeah. Can't seem to win

I think that dimension to Tifa's character brings a much more realistic and human touch to her since she should be the grounding force of the group. It sure as shit isn't gonna be Cloud since he ain't interested.

 

[a_apple 2.0]

Tifa a bit selfish in remake?

man, I wish. FF girls are most of the time not allowed to have any real character flaws which takes a lot of their depth. So I always loved Tifa because she actually has some flaws she has to overcome in her journey, but I wouldn't mind if they go even further with that.

 

[LivingLegacy]

Tifa, cold as ice?
Tifa knows Marlene is okay. Eerie is spot on: Tifa's the one thinking about others, the one who refuses to accept that their desire for revenge gives them the right to wreak collateral damage on innocent bystanders.
Tifa has respect for Elmyra; she respects Elmyra's knowledge of Shinra. Given the kid gloves Shinra has been using with Aerith up till that point, it's reasonable to suppose that having Avalanche rushing in to save her might do more harm than good.
Wow - I mean, Barret dumps his kid on Elmyra so he can keep fighting Shinra, but somehow that's not selfish because Elmyra said she'd do it, but when Tifa listens to what Elmyra wants, that somehow makes Tifa selfish?
But you know what, even if Tifa IS selfish sometimes, what's wrong with that? What the fuck is wrong with Tifa considering her own needs once in a while? Despite the fact that she's a woman, she's allowed to think about herself and put her own feelings first sometimes.

I wasn't saying Tifa as a person is cold as ice; I love her character, flaws and all. I was saying her comment to Barret in that moment was cold as ice.

I get what you're saying on Elmyra and respecting her wishes. And i revisited the script. Tifa doesn't say "we shouldn't rescue her." she says "maybe we'd be better off waiting awhile." I think I was getting too wrapped up in her opening statement "Cloud, maybe she (Elkmyra) is right about this. Maybe they'll let Aerith go when it's all over."

I don't consider it selfish for Barret to ask Elmyra to watch Marlene. It's not like he forced Elmyra to. And from Elmyras perspective, Barret & co. just lost the slums to Shinra and were going to check on their friends at 7th heaven. Seems reasonable to me.

I never said it's wrong of Tifa to consider her own needs. It would be unhealthy for a person to never consider their own needs. I'm saying I thought it was selfish of her, in the moment, to say what she said to Barret. I didn't like it and thought it was wrong and poorly timed of her to do so. Again, I love Tifa as a character, flaws and all. We are all flawed people, and that is ok. I never hear anyone talking about this scene and wanted to see if anyone felt the same way.

"Despite that she's a woman..." Where did this come from? I never said anything about her being a woman. Has nothing to do with it. I think every character in FF7 has flaws, not just Tifa.

 

[LivingLegacy]

Thinking of how their actions reverberate and impact the people around them gets you labeled as selfish now?

Yeah. Can't seem to win

I think that dimension to Tifa's character brings a much more realistic and human touch to her since she should be the grounding force of the group. It sure as shit isn't gonna be Cloud since he ain't interested.

I think you're trying to reframe what happened in a way to make it sound more palatable. She was going beyond thinking. She made, imo, a harsh statement to Barret in a moment when he was weeping and crushed about losing his friends and thought he lost his little girl. Just a bad time to twist the knife and pour salt in the wound to me. Let the man grieve, and after that's over, then reprimand him and reveal your reservations about Avalanche and their actions. There's a time and a place for everything.

I love Tifa and her character, flaws and all. I agree with you that it does bring a more realistic and human touch to her. I'm not expecting her to be perfect. I think the entire party has flaws.

 

[LivingLegacy]

Lol what... Barret needed a reality check there, he refused to acknowledge that his own actions led to the disaster. Tifa was the only one in the group who feared what their actions could bring to others, she was the only one who actually was worrying about the others...

As for Tifa persuading Cloud to not go after Aerith after her capture, are you sure you aren't a troll? Because it's VERY clear that she wants to give Elmyra space and let her think about it, because it's no use going against her own wish. Tifa says it next morning, they ALL wish to save Aerith. But they needed Elmyra's approval, because hell, it's her mother, and she was the one who had the most to lose - and had dealt with Shinra for years already.

Yeah, we have a difference of opinion after the plate crash. I think that was an awful time for a “reality check”. Give the man a break and allow him to grieve over his loved ones without twisting the knife and throwing salt in the wound. Comes off very selfish, cold-hearted, and harsh to me.

Tifas worrying about others doesn’t really amount to much when you factor in that Tifa still joined the party on the bombing mission, reservations and all. Actions speak louder than words.

I’m not trolling. Regarding aerith - I and many streamers I have watched have come to the same conclusion. I didn’t find it as clear. But after reading some of your comments and revisiting that scen, I can see where you're coming from on her wanting to respect Elmyra's wishes. Thanks for your insight.

To be clear, I'm not saying Tifa is an awful person. I adore her and her character. Just because I don't like some things about her doesn't mean I'm trashing her character. We all have flaws.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

OK, I see what you mean. However, I don't see Tifa's response as cold. She and Barret each have their own reaction to the tragedy, and, as so often, two people can be very close and yet react completely differently. IIRC, he doesn't misunderstand her; he doesn't turn around and demand how she can talk about their guilt when he's grieving. He reminds her of where the blame really lies, and also - very gently - reminds her that she has to keep that anger turned outwards. She musn't turn it in on herself.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I think you're trying to reframe what happened in a way to make it sound more palatable. She was going beyond thinking. She made, imo, a harsh statement to Barret in a moment when he was weeping and crushed about losing his friends and thought he lost his little girl. Just a bad time to twist the knife and pour salt in the wound to me. Let the man grieve, and after that's over, then reprimand him and reveal your reservations about Avalanche and their actions. There's a time and a place for everything.

I love Tifa and her character, flaws and all. I agree with you that it does bring a more realistic and human touch to her. I'm not expecting her to be perfect. I think the entire party has flaws.

There was nothing harsh about what Tifa said. It was a statement of truth and she didn't even lay the blame entirely on Barret. She acknowledged her role in the result as well. It was their group action and decision to fight Shinra. Did you think she was also processing the fact that she felt guilty over the decision to fight Shinra in the middle of Midgar too? It was a statement towards herself as much as Barret.

And Barret didn't even find fault with the statement at all. He knew there was merit to that perspective because he answers it honestly without offense. Because he respects her perspective and feelings as well. He comforts her by reassuring her that their decision to fight for the Planet and stop an evil corpor-fascist planet ruling regime is a righteous one. Why? Because they're allies. You're transposing numerous emotional externalities on a scene where both characters mutually understand and respect each other and their perspective. There's no "harshness" or "selfishness" to it. Barret comforted her and knew how much of a shock and pain this would be for her as well.

Barret wasn't in the middle of "grieving" Marlene either. He was concerned over her whereabouts. "Grieving" implies the loss and realization of its finality had been laid bare, but it hadn't. Cloud interjected with the fact she was safe. They were all in the throes of taking in the shock of what happened and wondering if there were survivors. Which there were. It wasn't just a moment to stand there and grieve, they were actively working through their emotions and equally valid in expressing them.

 

[rkss]

I know Jrpg doesn't always have best writing but man, do people this bad at reading context?


They don't make eyes contact during that scene. In the kubler ross model, it's called denial stage, which both of them are in.

One thing about ff7 is everyone lies. How can anyone claim to be a fan when they don't know every character always has a flaw in them in the OG.

 

[Makoeyes987]

That's false, looking at your feet is not a tell-tale sign of lying. That's a sign of anxiety and uncomfortableness. One can be anxious and uncomfortable from lying or they can be anxious and uncomfortable over a topic of conversation, or countless other reasons. That's a common misconception of how to tell someone who lies. That's not one of them.

 

[rkss]

technically lying to themselves is still lying.

They failed the mission, whole town got destroyed. Barret blamed Shinra, Tifa blame herself...both couldn't accept the truth aka grieving/denying etc...
They reacted differently but not hard to understand.

I like this scene tbh, it adds depth to their characters. If anything Cloud is the real loser here, he just stood there

 

[BoxFBall]

Tifa is flawed like every other character in this story, but she wasn't selfish she was keeping it real with Barrett. Was the timing right, maybe not; Barrett didn't take it personally so neither should anyone else.

Tifa is a very disrespected character, despite the fact she low key is the most well rounded character in the game as far as the fact she plays the role that everyone needs. She is a mama to Marlene, even though Tifa lost her mama at a very young age and doesn't know how she steps up and fills her role. She is a daughter in a sense to Barrett, she is a sister to Aerith, she is a friend to Red, Cid, Yuffie, Vincent, she is a lover to Cloud and through all of this nobody except Cloud and Aerith ever actually look out for her.

Tifa is a superwoman and by far the most well rounded character in this game, and even if she was being selfish so what she is always putting everyone else first someone needs to consider her feelings for once, remember what Marle said?

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

BoxFBall, you hit the nail on the head!

 

[BoxFBall]

BoxFBall, you hit the nail on the head!

Discovering this game and looking into the fandom these past few weeks I have been genuinely shocked at some of the criticisms I have seen for her character. It's like damn people really expect her shit not to stink like everybody else's. Damn she aint perfect.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Some fans have mentally cast her as fantasy girlfriend. She has no needs of her own and is always there to service and care for others. She is transparently honest and unflaggingly loyal. When she fails to live up to this fantasy ideal, she gets excoriated.

 

[LivingLegacy]

Discovering this game and looking into the fandom these past few weeks I have been genuinely shocked at some of the criticisms I have seen for her character. It's like damn people really expect her shit not to stink like everybody else's. Damn she aint perfect.

Some fans have mentally cast her as fantasy girlfriend. She has no needs of her own and is always there to service and care for others. She is transparently honest and unflaggingly loyal. When she fails to live up to this fantasy ideal, she gets excoriated.

Some fans do, I believe, exalt her and other FF characters to some perfect, do-no-wrong, level, which is silly and unrealistic.

I want to hammer the point home and reiterate that by me pointing this out, I am not trying to trash her character. She's one of my favorite characters in all of cinema and has been for the past 23 years. I think she and the entire cast of FF7 have flaws, which is fine. I have my own flaws, as do all of us. I think this is a flaw of Tifa's, and that's ok - I still love her.

Tifa is flawed like every other character in this story, but she wasn't selfish she was keeping it real with Barrett. Was the timing right, maybe not; Barrett didn't take it personally so neither should anyone else.

Tifa is a very disrespected character, despite the fact she low key is the most well rounded character in the game as far as the fact she plays the role that everyone needs. She is a mama to Marlene, even though Tifa lost her mama at a very young age and doesn't know how she steps up and fills her role. She is a daughter in a sense to Barrett, she is a sister to Aerith, she is a friend to Red, Cid, Yuffie, Vincent, she is a lover to Cloud and through all of this nobody except Cloud and Aerith ever actually look out for her.

Tifa is a superwoman and by far the most well rounded character in this game, and even if she was being selfish so what she is always putting everyone else first someone needs to consider her feelings for once, remember what Marle said?

I think that's a good point you make that Barret didn't take it personally. I'm glad it didn't seem to impact him and he comforted her shortly after, which communicates that there were no hard feelings.

I'm glad I'm at least getting a tiny bit of agreement with someone on this thread! I agree that the timing was not right - although I'd use a bit stronger language and say the timing was horrible, but that's just me.

I still think it was selfish of her to say that to him in that moment, in that context. I'm not saying she should have never said anything or talked about her needs - she definitely should because her needs are important and should be communicated and valued in any healthy relationship. But not right after your friend is having an emotional breakdown and crying and likely thinking his daughter is dead.

You could make the argument that all of them were traumatized and not thinking the most clearly, (like, why the heck does Cloud wait until after Barret has his breakdown to tell him about Marlene?) but that is never explicitly communicated.

I'm saying that for several people 'I've seen in streams who aren't reading into the situation much and taking the words at face value have came to the same conclusion as me.

Tifa is an amazing character and you are absolutely spot on with everything you said about what she does for everyone else! I have a hard time thinking of another woman character I like in a video game more than Tifa and Aerith. None come to mind! I love Tifa, flaws and all. When I first saw her in remake, I cried quite a bit. As cheesy as it sounds, it felt like being reunited with an old friend I hadn't seen in ages.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Maybe the timing was bad, but she'd just been through a very traumatic event. She probably wasn't thinking about timing; she probably wasn't even in control of herself. In fact I'll go further and say this interaction was very deliberately scripted to highlight their characters and the differences between them. Barret gives way to a great surge of grief; Tifa is overwhelmed with shame and guilt; Cloud has no fucking clue what to do or say.

Nobody can be called selfish because of what they do or say in moments of tremendous stress and trauma. You just react as you react. There should be no judgement.

 

[BoxFBall]

I think that's a good point you make that Barret didn't take it personally. I'm glad it didn't seem to impact him and he comforted her shortly after, which communicates that there were no hard feelings.

I'm glad I'm at least getting a tiny bit of agreement with someone on this thread! I agree that the timing was not right - although I'd use a bit stronger language and say the timing was horrible, but that's just me.

I still think it was selfish of her to say that to him in that moment, in that context. I'm not saying she should have never said anything or talked about her needs - she definitely should because her needs are important and should be communicated and valued in any healthy relationship. But not right after your friend is having an emotional breakdown and crying and likely thinking his daughter is dead.

You could make the argument that all of them were traumatized and not thinking the most clearly, (like, why the heck does Cloud wait until after Barret has his breakdown to tell him about Marlene?) but that is never explicitly communicated.

No the timing of what she said was 100% horrible, even though what she said was 100% true. Here is the thing Tifa is grieving too which is what you may be overlooking. As you said there are different ways to express grief. I mean was the timing for their home being destroyed and many of their friends being killed convenient? She's in grief too, and it is even worse this time experiencing because she was trying to stop it and failed to do so, she feels responsible, because Avalanche is responsible. Shinra are evil capitalists think of them like a tiger, you can't fault a tiger for biting you if you keep poking it with a stick that isn't a tiger being mean that is a tiger being a tiger. This is their second time having Shinra destroy their home, they know how they get down. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

Tifa was the only one who was trying to talk Barrett down from bombing the reactors, she KNEW it would come back to hurt everyone else. Jessie, Wedge, and Biggs didn't try to temper him, Cloud wasn't around long enough to talk him out of it and him and Barrett definitely would have come to blows if he tried. Barrett is the selfish one, he did not consider the well being of anyone else only his desire for revenge, HE IS THE SELFISH ONE, not the one who was trying to prevent it from happening in the first place. If Marlene would have died it would have been 100% Barrett's fault. Sector 7 was her home just as much as Barrett's as well. Like Marle said 'Are you really listening to her, taking into consideration her feelings?'

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

@Cloxmax
I think "selfish" is probably not the word you're looking for to describe Tifa in that grieving moment after Sector 7 is destroyed. She's showing a preoccupation with her role in the situation, yes, but not a preoccupation with her own gain or satisfaction -- so "self-centered" might be closer to what you're looking for, but even that's probably not quite right.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

She's overwhelmed by her own feelings, as Barret is by his.

 

[Fiz]

I guess it was kind of harsh, but people don't always say the right things in these situations. They often say the wrong things.

I just think it makes them more "real" and tbh, I was never a huge fan of Tifa or Aeriths characters in the original, but this time around I think they've stolen the show.