Tifa's role in Remake

[Eerie]

Yeah, I know, I know, you see me coming with my fuming because hot damn those past MONTHS (??? YEARS??? DECADES (for the OG at least)???) but especially days have been SHIT regarding fandom accepting Tifa as a heroine of Remake. EVEN HER OWN FANS which makes my life of reading her tag miserable, so I have to rant and sorry, this is the place that I always fall back to when I have to rant.

I will talk solely about Remake, if you want to move this in the spoiler section, be my guest. I'm just posting it here because I want the whole fandom to actually read this.

First I will begin with: all your "who's the deuteragonist" analysis are shit because you think Tifa ain't one in Remake and I really, REALLY don't know how the hell did that happen.

Here is a Wikipedia-powered definition:

The deuteragonist often acts as a constant companion to the protagonist or someone who continues actively aiding a protagonist.[3] The deuteragonist may switch between supporting and opposing the protagonist, depending on their own conflict or plot

And I mean, this fits Tifa's role to a T in Remake:

- She's the one who gives him the work with Avalanche
- She makes him feel at ease, making his true persona surface
- She's the one who helps him settle in sector 7, where he feels at home
- She teaches him the slum rules, so he wouldn't fall in the traps she did when she was younger
- She is the one who fights by his side, always
- She worries about him and is seen by his bedside when he's knocked out (just as much as he does to her, but this is an allusion to Mideel)
- She does save him, too, and that moment is highlighted

In fact, I do think that the support she shows Cloud is highlighted a lot. Her role in the intimate story is already written in Remake, and YES it will only expand from there on. But yes, because it's the intimate part of the story, it looks less grand than Aerith's part - however it is a misconception to think that Aerith's role in Remake is bigger than Tifa's, except in chapter 18 where her role is, I'd argue, even bigger than Cloud's himself.

I've seen argued that we got to know Aerith, her past, her feelings, etc., way better than Tifa's and I say: OF COURSE! Aerith just like in the OG is a BANG! Instead of insisting on her romance with Cloud though, they chose to focus on her, so we could learn to love her for herself properly. But we all know why she's given that: because *whispers* she is going to die *whispers*. And Cloud actually doesn't know her, so he needs to understand who she is etc. And we learn that alongside him. But of course he's not going to ask Tifa about their past - that would be admitting his memory and persona troubles to the one person he seeks approbation the most!

And so Aerith is a bang, but right from the start, to make sure that fans wouldn't misunderstand Tifa's role, Nojima, the head writer, told us that Tifa is the heroine (yep, one of the two, but STILL A HEROINE). Why are people trying to rank Aerith and Tifa's roles? They're vastly different but both roles are CRUCIAL.

And Tifa's not like any other character, where we learn their arc at some point and then it kinda stops; her arc is deeply entwined with Cloud's - so much that many people say that she hasn't one, when yes she does! It's mostly the same as Cloud's, so we get to discover everything as much as we unfold Cloud's story; in fact, it's THEIR story for most of the time, there's about 5 years where they are separated, out of 20! It's tragic but I think it's so clever and well done, yet it's her demise: because of that she's constantly overlooked as a heroine. Yet, this time they insisted on her doubts, her hatred for Shinra, her will to protect people. She SHINES as a heroine as we see her in Remake - there's no mistake about it, and to put a heavy weight on their intent, there's only one chapter where Tifa doesn't appear. Because her role is closely tied to Cloud, we see her through his eyes in flashbacks, we see her fighting by his side, we see them as a unit - when they fight side by side in chapter 3, we do see him discovering how good she is at combat, we do see him being admirative of her strength, we see the trust they build together.

"With a childhood promise in their hearts, they walk together shoulder to shoulder."
Famitsu​

Like in this promo from Famitsu. They are designed and promoted together like this - the slo-mo when he helps her in the pillar while the Turks are in the helicopter. We also see that Cloud made a promise to her - to be her hero and save her, and that he really took it to heart. We see how she influenced him back then, and in Remake.

In short, Tifa's getting looked down by eryone because:

- people hate her (we know who they are)
- most theorycrafters think lowly of her because she's just a love interest that's second best to Aerith their goddess (wish I was joking, but I don't watch theorycrafters for a reason) - and being interested in shipping is dirty, even if that's part of the core of the hero
- her own fans tend to see the importance of Aerith's role which is grandiose but dismiss the importance of the intimate part of the story - even if they love it!

Meanwhile, I'm really fed up with all the deuteragonist talk that's BS to dissect a JAPANESE story (which is what FFVIIR is, in the end). You know what the Ultimanias have always talked about? One hero, two heroines, and they never put down any heroine in favour of the other. This is a story where both sides are as equally important, take out one and the story collapses. So, people who insist her role is not big in Remake:

​

 

[Griff]

You have to be blind to not see Tifa as a heroine. Besides of all what you said and if I recall correctly there are two moments when Aeris positivity turned off, in the train graveyard and in her old room at shinras facility and it was Tifa who gave her words of encouragement and recovered her smile, also if not for Tifa Aeris would had been crushed by rubbish that had fallen down from the tower in the episode of avalanche vs shinra

 

[Eerie]

It's another day that ends in -y and so, here I am back with my big disappointment in especially two members of this forum who obviously thought it was funny to troll CT/Tifa fans. They were not the only ones to attack Tifa last week (cleriths and "non-shippers" were ALSO having a party, the last ones unironically preferring Aerith in general but not seeing the problem with the shit they spouted), but I'm mostly mad at two people whom I did not think would step so low, probably because I know them.

Hint: it is not and I'm seriously tired of your antics.

Saying that Tifa was only a fanservice character (or paraphrasing that) in ther OG and that she got a "much needed brush up" in Remake is LAUGHABLE. Do you know why? Because, she's the one character whose character DID NOT CHANGE. Do you know whose characters were seriously brushed up (to not say completely upgraded/modified)? Cloud and Aerith, who both had very ugly personalities in the OG (Cloud at least had the chance to change, but not Aerith). When you call Tifa a fanservice character, all I see is you focusing on her physical aspect, when fck that shit, most of her fans - the ones part of the fandom, the ones that matter actually - are WOMEN.

So when you attack her, why do women answer aggressively to you? Because you're often making SEXIST remarks. Women did not wait for any other Compilation title to make Tifa their role model. You're attacking Tifa in a way that cuts deep to any woman because it's something we're used to see IRL: SEXISM. That's why we point out how wrong you are (and then you play victim card haha). It even leaves a bad taste after ToTP where she became literally the symbol of fighting sexism - that book is a gem and you can see Tifa starting off as a normal girl and becoming strong and beautiful inside, refusing to be what people saw her as.

In the OG, you can't save the Planet if not for Tifa helping Cloud. Aerith can't save the Planet without CLOUD beating Sephiroth. Cloud can't beat Sephiroth without TIFA saving him. It's a TEAM effort. Trying to dismiss Tifa's importance is simply idiotic, all it shows is that you did NOT understand the importance of Tifa - maybe play her route next time while opening your eyes, instead of playing Aerith's.

So yeah. You are PART of the problem. You throw fuel on the fire just for shit ang giggles. I'm hugely disappointed in you. I think you both know who you are. And for one of the two, being a trusted translator and refusing to aknowledge that CT is canon simply because you prefer Aerith? Dick move. I hope you enjoyed Aerith telling you in the eyes that CA was not real in Remake. I don't give two shits about your preferences, one of the people I enjoy a LOT talking about FFVII is a freaking CLERITH, one of my most favourite persons here is a CLERITH so obviously this is not your preference I'm attacking there.

Moving on, another thing for what CT and Tifa fans got attacked, was the fact that they dared say the truth: that theorycrafters dismissed Tifa's importance and erased her, saying she was not important in one hand, and giving her role to Aerith/Zack on the other one. Like, are you kidding me, this is TRUE. Most theorycrafters' theories are GARBAGE because they don't take into account that Tifa's role is AS IMPORTANT as Aerith's.

Because yes, Tifa's role, even in Remake is big. She is one of the two heroines. In fact Nojima presented her as THE heroine before Remake launched. Sure her role has to do with the intimate story. Sure, she is the love interest (haha shippers are radioactive, amirite). The thought that if Aerith's role has been made bigger, then Tifa's role would too didn't seem to cross anyone's mind. It's so funny to me. Memories are getting a SUPER SPECIAL treatment in Remake (memories of the past and the future), but all they do is dismiss Tifa's importance. Yet you know what? All the memories of the past that have been highlited are: Tifa, Nibelheim incident (one with Nibelheim burning, one with Cloud's mum, one with Tifa). A lot of these memories have to do with Tifa. In ToTP, it's Tifa's memories with Cloud that are highlighted as special. Yet most of theorycrafters think she doesn't matter.

That's the dichotomy I'm facing and I think it's really really time that we get something Rebirth-related because it's becoming absolutely crazy how Tifa gets attacked (are people getting bored?). No, Aerith (thankfully) doesn't get served the same treatment since most CT actually like her and ship ZA. All of this comes down to refusing the canon story she has, the fact that yes, her story is entwined with Cloud's and that's ON PURPOSE because she is so so important to restore his true self. Romance is not a bad thing guys. It's part of the LIFE theme of FFVII. It's not radioactive to admit there's a canon pair and that Tifa is one of the two heroines and that yes, she is as special as Aerith. I swear her boobs aren't radioactive either, you won't get sick just because you enjoy her character.

 

[Makoeyes987]

What the hell is going on...?

 

[Odysseus]

TL;DR TurquoiseHammer said this:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610056339740561408

and the Cloti fandom collectively shit themselves. I'm guess I'm the other person because of my past antics but I have nothing to do with this one.

The fact you people spun a guy giving his honest opinion (a very milquetoast one at that) into dismissing Tifa entirely and being a sexist is why I don't like you.

 

[Makoeyes987]

...Ah yes. That. I actually saw that happen in real time.

To summarize:

>Is asked his opinion
>shares it



I have no idea what miscommunication or whatever happened in that brief moment, but some people somehow took those words as something far more than it actually was and it was...bizarre.

"Neither couple will have explicit confirmation" is not him saying anything else but that. That is a very anodyne and reasonable prediction. Cloud and Tifa may have confirmation through reasonable understanding of subtext, inference, and the fact they are a family. They've shared their mutual feelings for each other. However "explicit" means something entirely different, like...Tidus and Yuna sharing a kiss under water. I don't see why him saying that is somehow threatening or angered people. It was a simple opinion on the prediction of what would happen in the Remake.

It's not an opinion I share but it's strange and wild people took it as if he said the Earth was flat.

 

[Cae Lumis]

Its just... so fucking baffling how a middle of the road answer can inspire this much vitriol. Through my contacts, I understand this is in part because they don't trust or believe him when he says he's being impartial, and that this is some kind of... Trojan Horse(?)... to then latter suggest a Clerith ship. Granted, it may be because of all the earlier shit stirring that happened to prime that mistrust, which I will further add is probably me giving at least a part of the community more good-faith than warranted, BUT EVEN THEN... that doesn't excuse the level vitriol being thrown. I made my opinion known about this on Twitter and the same holds here as well: Let ME deal with any future antics.

Just... its so god.. damn... tiring.

 

[Odysseus]

It's how it has been for 26 years. Cloud and Tifa obviously have feelings for each other but it never gets to the point of kissing, getting married, etc. because the LTD is marketable. The frenzied defensive fervor over something so mild showcased here is proof enough of that. Square has everything to gain by keeping it coy, so they have been, an It's not unlikely they will continue to.

The way severe clotis like Eerie here take the fact he said he liked Aerith more as him saying he hates Tifa and thinks she's terrible and irrelevant is why I'm so put off from the whole shipping culture. Those are two completely different sentences. You're all so caught up in your victim complexes you take anything and everything as an attack, and since Turq was a "cloti ally" (because Cleriths got mad at him first lol) it also comes with a dash of betrayal. It's ridiculous. Look in a mirror why don't you.

 

[Makoeyes987]

It wasn't every Cloti, but I will say some big name folks are rather die-hard and aggressive when it comes to Cloti and it's just so strange to me. It's not that serious and it's certainly not something to be threatened about at all, no one is denying anything. I dunno if it's some weird war-reflex from going up against dokidoki shit for over a decade and now they can't stop fighting or just a predilection for conflict but it's frankly absurd and asinine.

And accusations of sexism are just beyond the pale. That's absurd. Reminds me of this:

 

[Tetsujin]

Edit: LMAO beaten by Mako

 

[Odysseus]

That's what I was thinking of when I wrote that lol

 

[looneymoon]

I remember seeing some comments a while ago where people were complaining about Tim Roger's FF7 video (which I thought it was great!) because he let his preference for the Aerith colour his opinion and thus was pushing a Cloud/Aerith agenda, and I was like



different priorities I guess? lol

idk man... dunking on shippers for their wild takes can be fun but imo I really don't think any """"side"""" has the other beat when it comes to bad actors.

 

[KindOfBlue]

That first tweet is him giving his opinion and people really ought to chill the hell out about it. It’s a pretty tame take in itself. I guess that coupled with the second tweet is what really ruffled some feathers.

The second tweet begs the question of what exactly constitutes “explicit confirmation” when we already have pretty explicit quotes from guide books and novellas. Not to mention the obvious fact that Aerith dies and unless Cloud rejects Tifa and stays devoted to Aerith, there isn’t really a viable way for her to “win”. I mean…that is the point, isn’t it?

I guess they mean explicitly in-game? I’ve mentioned before that I personally wish SE would stop dancing around it and just go all-in. I don’t need a kiss (though I’d definitely welcome it), and I certainly don’t need words (evidently, neither do they) but I’m sure the dialogue, acting, subtext etc. in the remake will be enough to make up for whatever couldn’t be made as clear in the OG.

If they’re already willing to make the kinds of statements they’ve made about Cloud and Tifa confirming their love for one another and whatnot, why not just put the nail in the coffin, y’know? It’s not like people who like Cloud and Aerith are going to stop shipping them. Hell, Naruto x Sakura shippers still exist lol.

EDIT: From what I remember, Tim Rogers struck me as somebody who ignored everything to do with Tifa and stopped paying attention to the story after Aerith’s death. I could be reading him wrong, it’s been a while since I watched those videos.

Obviously, there’s a personal element to what the game means to him and nobody can take that from him, but it can be tricky territory when you start equating what something means to you personally with the creator’s intentions. That’s part of how the fanbase ended up where it is now, isn’t it?

 

[Rydeen]

 

[ForceStealer]

I cannot believe we haven't outgrown this yet. Cloud would be 47 if he aged in real time from the original release, for some perspective.

I don't know if Odysseus' explanation is accurate, but if so, that is an incredibly mild thing to say to garner such a reaction. But even if it isn't, you can't come in with a vagueposting screed aggressively indicting other members for no reason. I have no idea what you're talking about with regards to the 'fanservice character' or 'much-needed brush-up' comments.
I would say the old LTD three-strike system applies to this post/thread, so I would take a moment to cool off before you post again, @Eerie.

 

[Nandemoyasan]

My version of this has always been twofold: 1) Nobody is asking Cloud if he even wants to go out with Tifa or Aeris(th) at all, and it's treated as a foregone conclusion and 2)

 

[Eerie]

TH got heat for saying there was no confirmation for any ship and dudes I'm sorry but there is PLENTY. In games, in Ultimanias, in interviews, in Remake where Aerith herself says that IF Cloud thinks he fell for her then it's not real. And goes on wishing for herself that she doesn't fall for Cloud. I seriously wish people would look at Aerith's pained face as she says it, that they would understand WHY she says this and no, it's not because she's going to die (which she will, definitely), but because Cloud's feelings at this stage are an illusion, especially those he shows to her (to Tifa it's more complicated but I'm staying firm in the he can't love ANY girl as he is right now camp). Aerith is Nojima's heavy way of saying that if you choose her that's fine, but it's an illusion, this is not where true Cloud's feelings are. This is the heart of FFVII's illusionary world.

If you guys think SE's dancing on the LT, I will tell you this: they aren't, and those who push this view when they stopped doing this after AC (!! probably due to these comments by women to the devs, let's be honest) are the ones maintening the illusion of the LT; my clerith friend who has very sharp analysis skills went and told me after Remake was released "woah they're really out to kill clerith!" (but I was the one who convinced her that Cloud and Aerith would definitely get more moments in the next game and that Aerith would definitely fall for Cloud). I'm not trolling there, I am serious, I wish people would review what SE had to say about Cloud and Tifa all over these years and if they feel they treated clerith the same way. Because no, they did not. Do you really think SE posted this:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611747360866029570

...for shit and giggles? No, in this video you can see that after losing his mother and Nibelheim, what truly pushed him to attack Sephiroth was Tifa's state. It put him into a frenzied rage and that's how he won, despite the huge gap in power. SE chose that because it shows Cloud's feelings and motivation. And truly they would not need to do that if it didn't mattered; it's spoiler as hell for those who haven't played the OG or CCR too but they're like, not hiding it at all. And then we can remember that in the Omega Ultimania that young!Cloud represents Cloud's true feelings (which leads to what I've always said: the Lifestream scene IS the resolution of the LT and this is where we truly learn Tifa's importance to Cloud).

This is why I was absolutely disappointed in TH (if you look at the replies you'll see that he maintains this when he's asked more broadly and when there are PLENTY of materials telling the canon of the story) for not aknowledging the canon. I don't care AT ALL about what you guys prefer, I think most of you know this. Because it does fuel a certain part of the fandom, the non-shipper part who thinks there's no answer to this LT when there had been one since 1997. And honestly being canon for more than two decades and still getting shit because people treat FFVII like an otome game - which I may add is rather insulting to the devs and FFVII in itself - is rather exhausting. You don't realise but this kind of thing, I see it EVERY DAY in the fandom (from my corner but sure I still SEE it) and really, don't you wonder if it was more easier for everyone to aknowledge the canon and the just move on instead of telling CT fans "haha your ship doesn't exist"??? I mean my clerith friend will tell you the canon pair is cloti, but she still ships clerith, it doesn't prevent her to enjoy her pairing.

@Odysseus: the reason why you caught fire from me is because how you presented Tifa when you made that tweet about her character profile. That was uncalled for, and really annoying as her character wasn't changed from the OG. If you think so then maybe you haven't been paying attention to her character. If you don't think that all these characters aren't fanservice too, I have bad news for you: Cloud, Aerith, Sephiroth, Rude, Reno, Rufus, Biggs, Jessie, Tseng, Barret, etc. they ALL LOOK RIDICULOUSLY STUNNING!!! They're all fanservice, but only Tifa gets called on it because what exactly? Boobs? As a woman yes I find this VERY offending when people call her fanservice character. I wish you'd get that. When you're only doing this to Tifa, first you're making it look like "hahaha that's funny only fanservice blerp" but no I'm sorry. You're midly insulting all her fans, most of which ARE WOMEN feeling attacked on the fact that Tifa is a good looking woman. Tifa was created to be one of the two heroines she's far from being a fanservice character. The reason why I love her so much is because she is kind and compassionate. The more you attack and troll Tifa fans like this, the more it makes us defensive; do you feel that it's so funny?

@KindOfBlue: you know I'm THIS close to agree with you, but seeing how Remake was done, I definitely think we'll see a kiss in the third game. It wasn't there in the OG because of the blocky characters, but yeah, they're *I think* gunning for it in Re- 3rd game. At least I won't have to deal with "non-shippers" attacking us for shipping the canon pair (??? Only in FFVII I guess???).

 

[Odysseus]

the reason why you caught fire from me is because how you presented Tifa when you made that tweet about her character profile. That was uncalled for, and really annoying as her character wasn't changed from the OG.

Here's every tweet I did of Tifa profiles:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1489016880895561732

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525520120839282689

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584251486896168961

No idea what you're talking about. People mostly hate me for that ill-conceived poll and my vocal dislike of several large shipping accounts. If it's about the "keep it in their pants" bit, that's because of this gem:


I was making fun of how horny the Ultimania was being.

do you feel that it's so funny?

Yeah a little. More concerning than anything though.

 

[Rydeen]

The world has been in tumoil for years and people are still being triggered by anime love triangles.

 

[Makoeyes987]

TH got heat for saying there was no confirmation for any ship and dudes I'm sorry but there is PLENTY.

That's not what he said, at all. Reread his answer. What are you talking about? You are arguing something entirely different and for zero purpose. I'd urge you to read it again.

This is so friggin' ridiculous. A statement on their opinion on whether or not there is "explicit confirmation" or not is such a granular and absurd level of discourse that it's completely useless and honestly, in bad faith. Why are you doing this? They've fucking worked hard putting in the work to translate FFVII material for free and this is honestly harassment. What the hell?

This is why I was absolutely disappointed in TH (if you look at the replies you'll see that he maintains this when he's asked more broadly and when there are PLENTY of materials telling the canon of the story) for not aknowledging the canon. I don't care AT ALL about what you guys prefer, I think most of you know this. Because it does fuel a certain part of the fandom, the non-shipper part who thinks there's no answer to this LT when there had been one since 1997. And honestly being canon for more than two decades and still getting shit because people treat FFVII like an otome game - which I may add is rather insulting to the devs and FFVII in itself - is rather exhausting. You don't realise but this kind of thing, I see it EVERY DAY in the fandom (from my corner but sure I still SEE it) and really, don't you wonder if it was more easier for everyone to aknowledge the canon and the just move on instead of telling CT fans "haha your ship doesn't exist"??? I mean my clerith friend will tell you the canon pair is cloti, but she still ships clerith, it doesn't prevent her to enjoy her pairing.

This is extremely frustrating. You're substituting whatever rabid dokidoki people you've engaged with over the years with TH and you need to stop. That's not what they said, did or tried to communicate. Read what they actually said and quit attacking him.

I'm so fucking disappointed. Cloud and Tifa being together in the text is apparent and supported so why do some fans of the Cloti ship really need to lose their mind over a fucking anodyne statement like this? This is ridiculously rabid and insecure. Be better. Actually engage and listen to what they're saying instead of substituting what you think is being said. Please.

Like, this seriously angers and upsets me. This is the kind of toxic, dokidoki cult shit I've seen before, mocked and now I'm seeing this come from a side that has ZERO REASON TO ACT LIKE THIS. What the actual fuck is going on? Stop attacking people. This is silly and the height of insecurity.

 

[KindOfBlue]

I hate to say it, but they almost certainly did have fanservice in mind when they gave Tifa improbably large breasts. It’s a very common thing to do in Japanese video games and anime and if there’s anybody to direct accusations of sexism towards, I would say it’s the creators themselves for doing this in the first place. I really like Traces of Two Pasts but it’s kinda silly for SE to try to be virtuous while also being as horny as they have been.

Not that they couldn’t have hypothetically given her large breasts to promote body positivity and diversity of different body types, but…probably not. That argument is about as convincing to me as somebody viewing porn “for the story” or “just for research”. Like, the stuff in the images Ody posted is just…Jesus, these are official materials. That’s the sexism I’m more concerned with but to each their own, it’s not my place to try to tell other people what they should or shouldn’t be offended by, especially with me being a man in this instance.

That being said, the argument that I think most if not all of us can agree is stupid is the idea that Tifa is just a fanservice character. Obviously, that’s wrong and definitely should be called out wherever possible. The devs have made Tifa’s importance to the story abudantly clear and anybody trying to downplay her importance for shipping purposes could not be more transparent. And of course the fans like her for more than just her body, there’s plenty more to love about her than that. Though I don’t think that’s what’s being argued here anyways.

I can’t lie though, I get secondhand embarrassment at how comically grotesque Tifa’s body looks in some of the fanart out there. Not to mention the idiots crying “woke” about Tifa’s bust size being “reduced” in the remake. Like come on, we can at least be honest that Tifa’s fans are probably hornier on average. But I think that also balances out with how much more hopelessly romantic Aerith’s fans tend to be when they know the only chance they have at a “win” after Aerith dies is Cloud rejecting Tifa, which…he won’t.

 

[null]

Tifa's OG design was intended as fanservice. She gets singled out because her attractiveness is called out both in-game and in the official guide books, far more so than any other character. Shippers who like to exploit this fact aside, I don't see how this is a sexist or even controversial take. It's literally the truth.

Does any other character have commentary comparable to "her stretching pose might make one need to avert their eyes"? Or "her short-cut tank top and miniskirt make for quite a revealing outfit"? Or "the staff resoundingly preferred the miniskirt"? Or "her impressive proportions become apparent in the cutscenes with realistic models?" I don't know, maybe the Honeybee Inn staff have profiles?

Please don't die on this hill Eerie. Neither Odysseus nor TurquoiseHammer deserve this degree of spicy. And they both contribute a lot to the fandom.

 

[frosty]

I'm so fucking disappointed. Cloud and Tifa being together in the text is apparent and supported so why do some fans of the Cloti ship really need to lose their mind over a fucking anodyne statement like this? This is ridiculously rabid and insecure. Be better. Actually engage and listen to what they're saying instead of substituting what you think is being said. Please.

Like, this seriously angers and upsets me. This is the kind of toxic, dokidoki cult shit I've seen before, mocked and now I'm seeing this come from a side that has ZERO REASON TO ACT LIKE THIS. What the actual fuck is going on? Stop attacking people. This is silly and the height of insecurity.

I don't think the "strength" of the ANGRY is worth it, but I do kind of get why the Cloti "side" can get irritated. Imagine having 26 years of "they had implied sex. They shared mutual feelings. They live together as a family. Tifa wears a ring. There is a song in remake BEAT FOR BEAT explaining Tifa and Cloud's story, with reference to her as "one true love" but the part of the internet goes "nothing was conclusive" lol.

Again, I'm not saying that TH / Odysseus deserved the heat and should be subject to long angry, attacking posts. TH's opinion was just what he thinks will happen in Rebirth and it's a opinion to respect. It's just that I kinda get why the "side" that has Zero reason to react...reacts.

And I whole heartedly do agree that Tifa WAS created as a sex symbol. She was marketed as such. Has her role evolved? Yes. Do they still harp on her beauty and sexiness in 2022? Yes. I think people need to realize that characters evolve with the maturity of the creators - she can be a sexy character WITH a complex background. - it's not one or the other.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I don't think the "strength" of the ANGRY is worth it, but I do kind of get why the Cloti "side" can get irritated. Imagine having 26 years of "they had implied sex. They shared mutual feelings. They live together as a family. Tifa wears a ring. There is a song in remake BEAT FOR BEAT explaining Tifa and Cloud's story, with reference to her as "one true love" but the part of the internet goes "nothing was conclusive" lol.

Again, I'm not saying that TH / Odysseus deserved the heat and should be subject to long angry, attacking posts. TH's opinion was just what he thinks will happen in Rebirth and it's a opinion to respect. It's just that I kinda get why the "side" that has Zero reason to react...reacts.

There's "irritated" and then there's "irrational." And that's happened on that twitter thread.

And even then, the "irritation" is unwarranted. While I get and understand the knowledge and obviousness of the totality of commentary, text, subtext, cues, emotions, and plethora of evidence that has existed throughout FFVII's history...

I also understand there are normies who just either don't really care about all that, may not follow all that, or even find it that important. And again, the term used was "explicit." The only thing I can understand is the reflexive urge to want to debate the facts because one's used to such minimizing coming from the other camp who argues that way in bad faith, but then I'd say for fuck's sake, turn off your auto-attacking instinct and just read what's being said, first. Not everything is a shipping war.

Most fans already, to some degree, see Cloud and Tifa as an item. They've been marketed that way, written that way, shown that way, and had a movie about them finally resolving their issues together. However, with all that it's never been explicit, in your face like other FF couples such as Tidus/Yuna or Squall/Rinoa. I'm talking about PDA, kissing, etc. Hardcore romance shit that's front and center. For whatever reason, S-E has chosen not to do that yet. Maybe (and hopefully) that will change. But I can get why someone would say they don't see S-E doing an explicit confirmation; to this day they have refused to just literally SHOW it or come out and say that outloud in no uncertain terms. Remake's hopefully going in a different direction but we'll see!

 

[eleamaya]

So far, theorycrafters focus on what might and would happen with Zack and Aerith, and the fuck is Sephiroth planning and doing; I get why Tifa is left. This thread could be the place to discuss as why the title is picked but personally, I dont think we get something new or different in Tifa's role from OG to Remake. There's no mystery around Tifa that could make us wildly imagine as Kitase want us, that's why it's less interesting to DISCUSS, unless you can offer something fresh about her in REBIRTH, something like what if Tifa met Zack maybe? Or what if Cloud was really under Sephiroth's control and Zack fought him; what would Tifa do? But it's hard because I guess what you want is for the story to stay the same.

Tifa's OG design was intended as fanservice. She gets singled out because her attractiveness is called out both in-game and in the official guide books, far more so than any other character. Shippers who like to exploit this fact aside, I don't see how this is a sexist or even controversial take. It's literally the truth.

Does any other character have commentary comparable to "her stretching pose might make one need to avert their eyes"? Or "her short-cut tank top and miniskirt make for quite a revealing outfit"? Or "the staff resoundingly preferred the miniskirt"? Or "her impressive proportions become apparent in the cutscenes with realistic models?" I don't know, maybe the Honeybee Inn staff have profiles?

And I whole heartedly do agree that Tifa WAS created as a sex symbol. She was marketed as such. Has her role evolved? Yes. Do they still harp on her beauty and sexiness in 2022? Yes. I think people need to realize that characters evolve with the maturity of the creators - she can be a sexy character WITH a complex background. - it's not one or the other.

That's what I've ever said in Twitter too, especially after reading those wordings in official profile (and magazine because TH and Ody has translated a lot), and usually CT/Tifa fans will tell me that Aerith and many male characters are fanservice too; I stop because they don't get what I mean. Being a part of many Shounen fandoms since 90s make me get used to of how sexist Japanese male creators are; but that doesnt mean these female characters has nothing but their boobs, the creators care of their role and personality too. It's just their appearance so I tend to ignore that while male readers are intended to ogle. It's getting worse because SHIPPERS uses female body for attacking the female characters they dont like for getting in the way of their ship and it happens in many fandoms. Bleach maybe? How many did Rukia fans insult Orihime for her boobs but not Rangiku? I dont think there's any other reason than this and most shippers are women. Non-shipper doesnt even use female body, what they need is explicit content or confirmation just like any shounen mangas ends with marriage and kids... so I get this frustration because I ship Cloti too. But to react over TH's comment in the same weight of DokiDoki Cult? I also aggree it's overreact.

I read TH's statement as this:
"I prefer Aerith, but I dont have preference of who Cloud end up with, whatever guidebook or devs' interview I translate say.
I think there would be no explicit confirmation about that in Remake just as OG."
What's bad with that?