Timeline Inconsistencies

[pESCAbAdA]

So this might seem a little random, but after going over the Before Crisis scripts and timeline, I realized that the scenes in Crisis Core where Zack meets Cissnei at Gongaga and the very end where Cissnei and Tseng are on the Shinra helipad and Reno and Rude are in the helicopter take place at the time that the Turks are all wanted and on the run. So, umm, huh?
???

 

[Makoeyes987]

How do you know when the scene with Cissnei and Zack happens or when Cissnei and Tseng are on the helipad, when it's not given a date during Crisis Core? All we know, is that it happens in 2007, and Zack dies at the end of September. The Turks turn against Shinra on October 1, 2007. Those scenes from Crisis Core probably happened before October.

 

[Madame Mayor]

And when Cissnei sees Zack on the beach and let's them go, that happens in BC (but I think it's whatever turk you're playing as, rather than specifically Cissnei).

 

[pESCAbAdA]

President Shinra actually orders for the assissination of all the Turks on February 2, 2007, not October 1, at least according to the Gunshot Romance website. While it's possible (but not probable) that the scene with Cissnei and Zack in Gongaga happens sometime in late December of 06 or January of 07, it's impossible for the scene with Tseng and Cissnei on the helipad to have happened before that - that scene must have taken place sometime in September, shortly before Zack's death.

 

[Madame Mayor]

Actually, President Shinra orders the Turks' assassination at the end of episode 20.
The scene on the beach and then in the forest with Cissnei/Whatever turk you are in BC happens in episode 19. So, I don't see where the inconsistency is. Zack confronts the army and dies not long after he meets up with Cissnei this time. The turks rebel after.

 

[pESCAbAdA]

You're misunderstaning me. I know that the scene on the beach takes place in Chapter 19. However that's not the scene I'm questioning. Chapter 20 ends on February 2, 2007 with the President announcing he wants the Turks dead. Now the two scenes I keep mentioning are where Zack meets Cissnei in Gongaga (not the beach), and when Cissnei and Tseng talk on the helipad in Shinra HQ. Like I said before, the first scene can possibly take place before the rebellion, but the second scene must take place after because it happens in September just before (most likely the night before even) Zack gets shot to death.

 

[Madame Mayor]

Zack was carrying Cloud and running from Shinra for 9 months?
What I'm saying is after the scene on the beach, the rest of them happen within a few days at most, well before the rebellion of the Turks.

 

[pESCAbAdA]

Yes, Zack was carrying Cloud and running from Shinra for 9 months. It's a fact that Zack gets shot down sometime in September and then Cloud is nursed back to health by Tifa for 3 months before the game starts, which matches up with the timeline of Avalanche's first mission being in December. You can look at the timeline and Mako's post which both say that Zack was killed in September. The scene with Cissnei and Tseng had to have happened right before that since it was the night before he was killed.
I think we have to admit that Square screwed up.

Unless...the Gunshot Romance website screwed up which I was considering when I went back to check the dates. All of the dates (or most of them) are listed month, day, year. It's possible that the author messed up on Chapter 20 and went day, month, year, which would make the day of the rebellion October 2 instead of February 10 (i originally said Feb. 2nd but I was wrong). However, that's pretty unlikely considering all of the rest of the dates go month, day.

I don't know what to think anymore. Makoeyes is probably the best person to ask though since he's probably studied the timeline the most.

 

[Makoeyes987]

We have no clue when the scene with Cissnei and Tseng happened. We don't know if it was the night before the day Zack died. Hell, we don't even know if it was technically even night since they departed from Midgar and Midgar is under a perpetually black sky.

Chapter 20's date doesn't change anything or screw up anything. Chapter 20 is the mission with Cait Sith in Gongaga which takes place February 10, 2007. That has nothing to do at all with Crisis Core, so that's an irrelevant mission. The rebellion against ShinRa the Turks undertook was October 1, 2007. That's confirmed by the http://one.xthost.info/ffwebnovel/ summaries of Before Crisis and the FFVII 10th Anniversary Ultimania.

So no, there's no mistake in the timeline. It makes sense

 

[Tetsujin]

[quote author=Makoeyes987 link=topic=88.msg1196#msg1196 date=1228805304]
Hell, we don't even know if it was technically even night since they departed from Midgar and Midgar is under a perpetually black sky.
[/quote]

Unless you visit the slums. Then all of a sudden, it's daytime.

 

[Makoeyes987]

[quote author=Tetsujin link=topic=88.msg1197#msg1197 date=1228807442]
[quote author=Makoeyes987 link=topic=88.msg1196#msg1196 date=1228805304]
Hell, we don't even know if it was technically even night since they departed from Midgar and Midgar is under a perpetually black sky.
[/quote]

Unless you visit the slums. Then all of a sudden, it's daytime.
[/quote]

Now that doesn't make sense.

 

[Tetsujin]

Blame S-E.

Even funnier was the constant change between day and night in the scene of Diamond WEAPON attacking Midgar.

 

[pESCAbAdA]

[quote author=Makoeyes987 link=topic=88.msg1196#msg1196 date=1228805304]
We have no clue when the scene with Cissnei and Tseng happened. We don't know if it was the night before the day Zack died. Hell, we don't even know if it was technically even night since they departed from Midgar and Midgar is under a perpetually black sky.

Chapter 20's date doesn't change anything or screw up anything. Chapter 20 is the mission with Cait Sith in Gongaga which takes place February 10, 2007. That has nothing to do at all with Crisis Core, so that's an irrelevant mission. The rebellion against ShinRa the Turks undertook was October 1, 2007. That's confirmed by the http://one.xthost.info/ffwebnovel/ summaries of Before Crisis and the FFVII 10th Anniversary Ultimania.

So no, there's no mistake in the timeline. It makes sense
[/quote]

Chapter 20 is relevant though because it ends with President Shinra's announcement that he wants the Turks dead and it takes place on February 10. Why would the chapter skip from February all the way to October without making note of it?

And can't we assume that the scene between Cissnei and Tseng takes place at least the day before Zack's death? I mean, she's getting in the helicopter to go save him from the army, the same helicopter that she spoke to Reno and Rude from on the day of his death.

I haven't looked at your links however, and if the Ultimania says October 1, then so be it. I did have good reason to think otherwise considering Gunshot Romance though.

 

[Makoeyes987]

[quote author=pESCAbAdA link=topic=88.msg1208#msg1208 date=1228824583]
[quote author=Makoeyes987 link=topic=88.msg1196#msg1196 date=1228805304]
We have no clue when the scene with Cissnei and Tseng happened. We don't know if it was the night before the day Zack died. Hell, we don't even know if it was technically even night since they departed from Midgar and Midgar is under a perpetually black sky.

Chapter 20's date doesn't change anything or screw up anything. Chapter 20 is the mission with Cait Sith in Gongaga which takes place February 10, 2007. That has nothing to do at all with Crisis Core, so that's an irrelevant mission. The rebellion against ShinRa the Turks undertook was October 1, 2007. That's confirmed by the http://one.xthost.info/ffwebnovel/ summaries of Before Crisis and the FFVII 10th Anniversary Ultimania.

So no, there's no mistake in the timeline. It makes sense
[/quote]

Chapter 20 is relevant though because it ends with President Shinra's announcement that he wants the Turks dead and it takes place on February 10.  Why would the chapter skip from February all the way to October without making note of it?

And can't we assume that the scene between Cissnei and Tseng takes place at least the day before Zack's death?  I mean, she's getting in the helicopter to go save him from the army, the same helicopter that she spoke to Reno and Rude from on the day of his death.

I haven't looked at your links however, and if the Ultimania says October 1, then so be it.  I did have good reason to think otherwise considering Gunshot Romance though.
[/quote]

Because it just did

Before Crisis skips months all the time. The sequence is not consistent.

And no, you can't assume anything. How can you assume anything if there's no proof? It could be the same day Zack got killed. You don't know and don't have any proof. The color of the sky is hardly any consistent way to judge the time.

 

[Ryushikaze]

[quote author=Tetsujin link=topic=88.msg1197#msg1197 date=1228807442]
[quote author=Makoeyes987 link=topic=88.msg1196#msg1196 date=1228805304]
Hell, we don't even know if it was technically even night since they departed from Midgar and Midgar is under a perpetually black sky.
[/quote]

Unless you visit the slums. Then all of a sudden, it's daytime.
[/quote]

It's a floodlight. Natch. It's why it's still 'day' even in the middle of the night.

 

[Tetsujin]

Uhm, no. The horizon is visible from underneath the plate, and there's gray clouds. Whenever you are in the slums, Midgar is ironically actually depicted in daylight. Somewhat. Pizza and everything.

 

[pESCAbAdA]

I don't know if you are or not Mako, but I sort of feel like you're yelling at me. :-\ I'm just trying to state the facts as I know them from the information that's available to me and the general public. You say that the rebellion started on October 1 as proven by the Ultimania. That solves the problem. The confusion only came up because Chapter 20 starts on February 10 and for some reason ends on October 1 without noting the gap in time. Since Gunshot Romance is all I really have to go on date wise, I don't think it was completely out of the blue for me to think that President Shinra's announcement still took place in February like the rest of the chapter did.

And we're being too literal about the whole day night thing. It doesn't matter what time of the day it was. I think it's safe for us to assume that it's in September though. Like I said, she's getting in the helicopter to stop the army from killing Zack which happens in September. Either way, it works out now because we've established that the rebellion starts in October.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Chapter 20 starts on February 10th, but no, it does not end on October 1st.

Chapter 21, starts on October 1st. And yes, President Shinra does say he wants the Turks dead during February 10th, but he didn't act on turning against the Turks until October 1st, when they openly turned against him and disobeyed his orders.

But yes, the confusion is solved, so really, there's no inconsistency in the timeline regarding that event.

 

[pESCAbAdA]

Ooh, okay, well that makes sense now. Thank you for clearing it up for me, it's been bothering me for a while and I just couldn't help but wonder how Square could overlook something that causes a such a blatant contradiction like that. But all's well.

 

[Ryushikaze]

[quote author=Tetsujin link=topic=88.msg1256#msg1256 date=1228857768]
Uhm, no. The horizon is visible from underneath the plate, and there's gray clouds. Whenever you are in the slums, Midgar is ironically actually depicted in daylight. Somewhat. Pizza and everything.
[/quote]

I was specifically referring the the light around the church, which is present even when it's supposedly night and comes in at a very, very steep angle, but yeah, I do know that there's sunlight in Midgar. That it's always in darkness is just a thematic thing, like Galbadia always being visited at night. Similarly, complaints about never seeing the sky are all about the plate. They're all complaints by the Slum livers anyways.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

I thought the lack of sunlight in Midgar was explained by the fact that it's an environmental hellhole.

 

[Tetsujin]

[quote author=The Notorious M.O.G. link=topic=88.msg1319#msg1319 date=1228888066]
I thought the lack of sunlight in Midgar was explained by the fact that it's an environmental hellhole.
[/quote]

Nope, it's just always shown at night for aesthetic reasons (much like Junon is always shown during sunset).
In fact, it's bathed in bright sunlight in the ending of Crisis Core (the very last shot before the credits roll).

 

[S and G]

Although I can see where both Mako and Mpesca are coming from, my interpretation is slightly different.

For starters, it's very possible that PS didn't give the execution order in February. I haven't checked back on for the exact translation on chapter 20 (so hands up if I'm wrong) but it was very common for the last part of the episodes to occur sometime after the main event. If that's the case, then it could have been given any time before October.

Secondly, regardless of when the order was given, PS was well aware that the Turks had Rufus at their secret HQ and the Turks were aware that they were being targeted. My impression was that PS gave a shoot on sight order, but did not actively hunt them following his disassociation with them after ch20 for fear that a) Rufus would get hurt and b) the Executive would find out about the truth of Rufus' role with AVALANCHE. In ch21, Scarlet knows to kill the Turks, but her Army doesn't (and can't) find the Turks HQ previous to that.

The only things that cause any confusion are a) why doesn't anyone other than the Turks know where the HQ is located in the Shinra Building and b) how do they manage to continue using vehicles when they are being targeted? (Although ch22-2 has the player drive a motorbike into Shinra HQ and steal a helicopter, so it's not impossible)

Anyway, I believe the Cissnei helicopter scene takes place before she sets off to look for Zack the day he dies. As for her in Gongaga, there are no other Shinra representatives anywhere near her, and any argument there is thus irrelevant. As can be seen in both CC and LO, the Turks and the Army are not co-ordinating their hunt. In fact, they're actually working for different things. The Turks are on a rescue mission, and the Army is on a seek and destroy one. There is actually a line in LO from a Shinra MP which states the are making the conscious decision not to work with the Turks. The point is that the death of Zack happens a matter of days before ch21, and thus the Turks are not allies and have no authority, which suggests that they are definitely being targeted before ch21.

As I said...that's my interpretation.