Turn Based or Not?

[CameoAmalthea]

I know a lot of people who aren't into turn based games - and to be honest I'm not a fast reader so having to read options of moves isn't always fun.

That said, I enjoyed FFVII and managed to play it well enough.

At the same time - I really enjoy games where I can run around and attack things. For example, I liked KH Birth By Sleep - which reminded me of a better version of Crisis Core since it had a spell fusion component similar to materia fusion. To me- real time hit things game just seem more realistic - but with multiple people in your party I'm not sure how that would work.

I haven't really played enough games to compare battle systems. But in general I want to know wht people think of turn based rpgs and if you'd want it to remain turn based -

And I assume most fans won't want anything changed - but I want to know how many people are very gung ho about turn based RPGs and Seven remaining turn based?

 

[AvecAloes]

I personally like turn-based combat in the 'old school' RPGs, but I can't really imagine a true to the original ATB system in the remake. I think that Nomura said recently in an interview that it won't be, because of how ridiculous it would look, and I guess I kind of have to agree with him. As much as I would LOVE to to able to input commands, as I said in another thread, it would be a little silly. However, I would think that having some sort of hybrid like XIII/XIII-2's systems would be a good balance.

Don't get me wrong, I love being able to run around and slash things with swords and keyblades and bash things in with staffs and rods and whatnot. I just have a special place in my heart for turn-based combat systems, as the first RPGs I played utilized them.

 

[55-]

I like being able to strategize, and active combat conflicts with that desire. Just turns into a bunch of runnin' and gunnin', hackin' and slashin', x button mashin', too much of the time.
(Though I'm quite sure that's what we're getting whether I like it or not.)
Button combos might help.

Assuming that it's gonna be "you play as one character, everyone else is on AI" I pray to Jenova that someone doesn't have to be Cloud.

 

[CameoAmalthea]

Well since Cloud was sort of the default party member for most of the game, I'm assuming it will be...BUT for the portion Cloud isn't there you'd get a chance to play as everyone as we switch around to different mandatory party members.

 

[Octo]

I hate battles in RPG's no matter what form they take, gimme story and puzzles and exploration please.

But in the remake I don't really mind unless they're going to make shit frustrating/difficult.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

XIII/XIII-2 are not hack-and-slash games. Hack-and-Slash I'm okay with (so long as we've got options), although my way of playing those usually devolves into "gear yourself for maximum damage before a battle starts because I have really bad aim". The only problem with them is that because there's no finesse to them, so I really don't have to think a whole lot about them. But at least I don't dislike them and because I'm controlling a character, I do develop an emotional attachment to them while fighting as them..

XIII/XIII-2 on the other hand are simulation/programing games. I literally have no control over the characters except for what roles they can be. And it bugs the heck out of me that I just sit their and watch the characters fight my battles for me and all I have to do is decide what characters should play what roles. There's no big emotional connection I made with the characters because I was able to defeat certain bosses with one over the other. As far as the battles in XIII/XIII-3 went, the characters were just computer programs with the skins of the characters from the story I was watching.

Then there's turn-based. This where I can actually have fun fighting stuff because I can sit and plan out what is going to happen and when. Instead of just trying to hit stuff, I know that me, the player, has no control over that, so instead of trying to dish out as much damage per hit, I actually have the luxury to figure out how to maximize damage while a battle is going on, as opposed maximizing damage before the battle starts (hack-and-slash). So I can actually plan while the fight is going on because it's slow. And because I'm controlling all the moves the characters make, I end up developing an emotional attachment to certain characters for fighting.

I don't know. I get what Nomera is saying that watching hi-rez models go back and "wait for their turn" looks stupid, but that's never really what I'm watching unless its a battle system that actually lets you control your character's movement. Mostly because pretty graphics take my attention away from all the stats that actually determine what is going on in the battle. And like it or not, a lot of game time is spent in battle.

At the end of the day, I like good stories in games, but good stories don't make me replay games, the same way good stories don't lead me to read books that are agonizing to get through because of writing style. FFIX has a great story, but it's battle-system felt... confining and slow compared to FFVII and FFVIII. So it's joining FFXIII/FFXIII-2 on my "once is enough" list of games. I really hope the FFVII remake doesn't join them...

 

[hleV]

I wish for a full action battle system: full character control (I'm fine with only having to control Cloud with others being AI), high jumps, timed dodging, perhaps wall running/jumping. That's what Cloud does. Other party members could stand a little aside and cast magic, but of course not be limited to just that.

Don't think we'll get something as action-y as that, though, as FF games are in essence RPGs and battles are usually settled with strategy rather than skill.

 

[Starling]

I worry that in-battle options will be more limited if they go from turn-based to active combat. What would they have to do to the enemy skill materia to avoid having to scroll through so many spells in that kind of battle system? Party members you don't control would also have to have some damn good AI options.

 

[Ghost X]

They should be able to make a seamless turn-based game, without it looking weird and unnatural. I don't particularly care either way, but having said that I do prefer the strategic element of a turn-based game.

"Ohnoes, the status effect I cast on them has run out, will they kill me before it is my turn!?"

Thrilling entertainment .

 

[Flintlock]

Don't think we'll get something as action-y as that, though, as FF games are in essence RPGs and battles are usually settled with strategy rather than skill.

Only "in essence"?

If the game is as action-oriented as you described, I'd be very disappointed. I'm quite open-minded about the remake in general and I'm ready to accept that the game isn't going to have ATB, but that would be a bit too far. I like my Final Fantasy games to be more strategy than timing.

 

[Dragonslayer Ornstein]

As someone who plays fighting games at a high level with a significant other who's one of the best at Guilty Gear Xrd on the east coast? I can say that even though real time can be extremely strategic, it does completely fly in the face of that calculated planning factor that turn based encourages.

As I said, X-2 ATB with XII seamlessness is as close as they can get to updating things while keeping them similar.

Chances are, they're not looking to do any of this... They want a completely new experience that just remakes FFVII. Yuck. In b4 XV combat

 

[Drax]

I was entertaining the idea of a classic mode option, but not sure how much space that would take on the disc alongside an action-based system. It would just be all the action-based battle animations/summon cutscenes/etc., rescripted into the old system of camera panning, menus, and turn basiness. The group would run into an enemy and be taken to a small isolated arena like XIII's boss battles.

I think Dissidia tried something like this, but it was just autopilot in a 3D environment.

 

[annacamille]

Am I the only one who thoroughly enjoyed FFXII's battle system? I like the idea of gambits, being able to change party members, dodge attacks, not transfer to a new screen, etc.

I am in the process of playing 13 right now, and I absolutely HATE this battle system. As long as it's not FF13's system, I think I can live.

 

[NikolaiBroketheZoom]

Am I the only one who thoroughly enjoyed FFXII's battle system? I like the idea of gambits, being able to change party members, dodge attacks, not transfer to a new screen, etc.

I loved FFXII's battle system! Mainly because it can be as involved or passive as you'd like i.e., fully automatic for mindless level grinding/loot collecting and fully manual for bosses or harder enemies. I also liked that the player controlled Vaan in towns and "safe areas", but could take control of a party leader of their choice during battles. I could see something similar with Cloud in the remake.

 

[AerithLives]

Bayonetta/Devil May Cry with a huge FF7 influence. None stop, balls to the wall action!

 

[annacamille]

I loved FFXII's battle system! Mainly because it can be as involved or passive as you'd like i.e., fully automatic for mindless level grinding/loot collecting and fully manual for bosses or harder enemies. I also liked that the player controlled Vaan in towns and "safe areas", but could take control of a party leader of their choice during battles. I could see something similar with Cloud in the remake.

Yes. This would be the dream battle system!

*Sigh* I wish my PS3 was backwards compatible so I can play FF12 again (instead of crappy 13) hahaha

 

[Dravin]

Here's another vote for XII's battle system. I really enjoyed it and I think it could work well in the remake with a little tweaking. Mix it with FFX's ability to switch party members in and out of battle on the fly and it'd be perfect.

 

[ForceStealer]

While I appreciate XII as a really well constructed world and put-together game. I still just find the battle system very slow and detached. I can move around but it doesn't matter...I can literally program it to play itself...
I might have liked it better if the game weren't so grindy, I dunno.

 

[Cthulhu]

IDK if XII was more grindy than the other FF games; if anything, it made it less tediously grindy by not having an unskippable and sudden "SHUB-NIGGURATH ON A BIKE THERE'S INVISIBLE MONSTERS HERE AND YOU'RE GOING TO FIGHT THEM NOW" transition, then a battle, then a "PRAISE DAGON YOU DEFEATED THE MONSTERS IN .3 SECONDS HERE'S FIVE SCREENS WITH DETAILED STATS ABOUT XP, GIL, ITEMS, MATERIA AND THE VICTORY THEME ON REPEAT".

I'd keep the old system (i.e. transitions into battle) for nostalgia though.

 

[ForceStealer]

Well sure it was seamless and you could more easily avoid enemies if you wanted, but the game kinda required that you specifically grind for levels. That's my problem.

Especially with the way the hunts were handled. I thought the hunts would be something to "mask" grinding. Something to do or work toward that causes you to level up without really thinking about grinding. But, no, you have to grind FOR the hunts, it only adds more. Obviously I have no problems with there being difficult, high level hunts. But that the marks themselves don't give you experience, and that most of the rewards are lousy, and all the hunts did was ADD grind to the game, rather than help mitigate it.

 

[Dragonslayer Ornstein]

Didn't you get at least a level or two for beating hunts, or was it only LP and not exp?

 

[leadmyskeptic]

Preferences aside, I don't understand why it would be RIDICULOUS for them to have an updated/modified ATB turn-based system in the remake, with modern graphics. I'm not saying that I'm expecting we'll get that, but I still don't understand why it would be ridiculous, assuming the animations for the spells and attacks obviously had all the fanfare and dazzle of modern games. Unless what you guys are saying is that 90% of the modern gaming AUDIENCE would find a turn-based system unacceptable and ridiculous, like trying to make a successful movie that isn't a superhero movie nowadays. That I could see. I did skip owning any systems during the PS3 era (I have a PS4 now, and I played lots of games at my friends' places during that era), but there were lots of RPGs at the very least through the PS2 era that maintained a turn based system, like the Personas.

 

[ForceStealer]

I agree. Random encounters would probably be roundly mocked, but I'm not sure why turn-based combat is treated like such a pariah.

 

[leadmyskeptic]

As far as that goes though, what's the alternative? This might just be because as I said I didn't own a system last generation, and while I played a bunch of games from it, RPGS were few and far between, but it seems like it's either random or...what, visible enemies skulking around in your path and when you bump into 'em you start a fight?