Was the Compilation a mistake?

[Cat Rage Room]

I dunno, I've been thinking about that recently.

Maybe this opinion will change in the future depending on what Square does, but I'm starting to think the entire Compilation has been a waste of time in retrospect. It was easy to be excited in the moment, while it all was happening, but now looking back, especially considering that SE has seemed to dropped it like a hot potato (no news, no upcoming projects, no...nothing), I dunno, it seems like DoC, BC, CC, AC, etc was just a big fucking waste of time.

At the most it was just extra fluff added to the FFVII universe, and nothing really poignant, impacting, or even really interesting has been added to the FFVII universe in the Compilation, in my opinion. Things that could have been expanded upon that were already there were skipped over (the Wutai War, the formation of Shinra, more info on Jenova, the background of the FFVII world, etc etc), and instead SE chose to just MAKE UP bullshit instead, with shit that never really needed to exist, like the Genesis War, Deepground, etc etc. The only real accomplishment of the Compilation was expanding on Zack and Sephiroth.

None of it just seems to have any real staying power. I'm far more interested in shit I've played a long while ago than the Compilation, like FFVI, Chrono Trigger (now THAT'S one franchise SE needs listen to its fans and bring back), and so on. I'm sure others saw it before, but it just feels cheap and tacked on. I dunno, maybe this will change when SE actually fucking starts paying attention to their franchise again, but for now, I'm disappointed.

 

[ForceStealer]

I'm sure you'll find no shortage of people that agree with you. I'd say it depends on your definition of "waste of time."

I don't regret the time I spent with each entry. I enjoyed playing/watching them. I never expected any of them to reach the level that the original had, but as I've said before, I HATE the concept that entries to series can "ruin" the original.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Don't worry MOG. I hear ya.

You'll feel much better once the FFXIII Compilation gets off the ground! Everything will be just fine.

 

[ForceStealer]

Mako must've been bottling up his FF13 potshots for awhile now.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

No, don't get me wrong, I've enjoyed the Compilation too as I played through them. But looking back, it doesn't really seem to have really added anything to the overall FFVII universe. It doesn't feel any richer or deeper due to the Compilation, if anything, the opposite.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Sounds like you keep expecting every girl title to live up to your ex original experience with FFVII, and want it to fit the exact standards you built up for her what FFVII should be if it should ever be continued.

Sorry, no one can be your ex retrospective FFVII experience again. You keep comparing everything to it, and you'll never get laid be satisfied with anything FFVII related. It's the same with every woman franchise; you keep comparing every single girlfriend you bang spinoff title to your first the original (i.e. Link's Awakening compared to A Link to the Past) and you're going to go insane and be a bitter virgin hate everything. There are good lays and mediocre highs and there are lows. Big tits titles, and tiny tits filler titles. It's just accepting that and enjoying each one for what it is. Not every game with the FFVII title is going to rewrite history and cum ambrosia.

 

[Celes Chere]

CC wasn't a waste of time. :C I had been waiting for them to give more information about Zack for YEARS. CC was completely satisfying. xD The gameplay was kinda meh, but the story was marvelous minus Genesis.

In CC Sephiroth still really wasn't expanded on much. I'm glad I got to see his other side, I was just kinda hoping... it'd be alot more, lol. I'd have liked to see more of his past, and the type of things he went through.

BC I can't really make an opinion on since I've never played, but I think the idea of letting us know more about the TURKS is pretty awesome. And I wish that damn game wasn't just for a cell phone.

DoC was terrible. I hate that game with a passion, but it still added something- we got to see more of what happened with Lucrecia, Hojo, and Vincent's past. Which is great because in VII it isn't really explained that well. Do I think they needed a whole game about Vincent, though? No... and I hated all of the new characters in that game, too. (Besides the WRO members... they had cute hats.)

Are any of these super... impacting? I guess not. The biggest thing to happen is Zack's story... which I will be super biased about.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Sounds like you keep expecting every girl title to live up to your ex original experience with FFVII, and want it to fit the exact standards you built up for what FFVII should be if it should ever be continued.

Sorry, no one can be your ex FFVII experience again. You keep comparing everything to it, and you'll never get laid be satisfied with anything FFVII related. It's the same with every franchise; you keep comparing every single spinoff title to the original (i.e. Link's Awakening compared to A Link to the Past) and you're going to go insane and hate everything. There are highs and there are lows. Big titles, and filler titles. It's just accepting that and enjoying each one for what it is. Not every game with the FFVII title is going to rewrite history and cum ambrosia.

I'm not saying all that. I'm just saying in my opinion, the new entries were cheap and weren't that great at all (in retrospect). I'm not expecting another FFVII. But that doesn't mean I have to expect filler, either. I could even argue that a writer shouldn't even bother with producing something unless it meets a certain standard, and isn't filler.

There are a few spinoffs and expansions in certain series who lived up to the original's name, or at least were enriching experiences. I feel that the Compilation is not one of them. Fun and worth a spin, sure. Worthy additions to the FFVII narrative? With a few exceptions, no.

CC wasn't a waste of time. :C I had been waiting for them to give more information about Zack for YEARS. CC was completely satisfying. xD The gameplay was kinda meh, but the story was marvelous minus Genesis.

See, that's the thing, I can't really say 'the story was awesome minus Genesis' since Genesis WAS a lot of the story. CC wasn't bad, it was just...ehh, when you look at the big picture.

 

[Makoeyes987]

So basically the Compilation is a cheap whore, you regret taking her out, even though the sex was actually good at the time. Good for a few laughs but not worth taking home to the family.

That's some cold shit.

...I've personally, always loved whores.

But hey, whatever vibrates your controller. To each their own.

 

[ForceStealer]

I'm definitely with you on wishing for more of a focus on the Wutai War, but at the same time sometimes the need to come up with something earth-shatteringly earth-shattering with every entry can really harm a series (*cough*Metal Gear) whereas sometimes its fun to simply spend time in that world.
Its one thing with movies, but a game could get away with doing something like that, I think.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

So basically the Compilation is a cheap whore, you regret taking her out, even though the sex was actually good at the time. Good for a few laughs but not worth taking home to the family.

That's some cold shit.

Best analogy right here.

I'm definitely with you on wishing for more of a focus on the Wutai War, but at the same time sometimes the need to come up with something earth-shatteringly earth-shattering with every entry can really harm a series (*cough*Metal Gear) whereas sometimes its fun to simply spend time in that world.
Its one thing with movies, but a game could get away with doing something like that, I think.

That's the thing though; the irony with CC, for example is that they DID try to come up with something earth-shatteringly earth-shattering and it was just fucking corny, when instead they could have just expanded more on established events.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Well, MOG, at least you didn't get FFVII pregnant. So there's no need for it to be awkward and having to give it more money.

I mean, so what if the Compilation doesn't live up to the original awesomesauce of the original? Does a game need to be completely, off the wall, memorable and epic for its genre to be enjoyable and worth playing a few minutes? No, the Compilation isn't as epic as FFVII. But there's one thing it is, and that's fun. At least you can play the games, get a few laughs, do a few replays, and still find it enjoyable.

I mean, really, as long as it can do that, I definitely don't see it as a waste of time at all. Again, just because it's a whore, doesn't mean you can't have a booty call now and then. In fact, they end up being the most fun when you crave em.

I'm just waiting to see if they actually remake the game, and I want to wait before judging the Compilation's merits as a whole, until they actually FINISH it. That way, we'll know in the end, how it all ties together. That's where we'll see it sink or swim.

"You know, the only thing that matters, is the ending. It's the most important part of the story, the ending."

 

[Cat Rage Room]

I mean, so what if the Compilation doesn't live up to the original awesomesauce of the original? Does a game need to be completely, off the wall, memorable and epic for its genre to be enjoyable and worth playing a few minutes? No, the Compilation isn't as epic as FFVII

Like I said before, I'm not saying it had to live up to the original. Pay attention!

Also, an addendum, two things.

1. I firmly believe that some stories are meant to be told ONCE, and that's it. Sometimes expansions, sequels, prequels, whatever are an absolute disservice to a narrative. Is FFVII one of these? Arguably. Maybe. Maybe not. That leads me to...

2. For narratives/settings/worlds/stories that do lend themselves to additions, I'm not against the idea. For example (since I'm playing it right now), GTA IV is a game that lent itself perfectly to the two expansions it got; The Lost and Damned and The Ballad of Gay Tony. Both expansions did a GREAT job in enriching the GTA IV Liberty City narrative, expanding on established events, explaining the unexplained in the plot, and tying up loose ends, all through the perspective of three different characters; serious, reserved, Niko in the original, brotherhood minded, anarchist Johnny in the Lost and Damned, and intelligent, woman chasing Luis in The Ballad of Gay Tony.

They even did interesting little things like changing the visual filters in each entry so the same ol' Liberty City has a literal different tone; with the world looking gray and dreary with Niko, but when playing as Luis, everything looks bright and colorful (ironically, these are both different, yet accurate ways of looking at New York City)

There are wonderful ways to expand on a setting and universe. Compared to the other games out there, the Compilation can be fun, but it pales.

 

[Dashell]

I mean, so what if the Compilation doesn't live up to the original awesomesauce of the original? Does a game need to be completely, off the wall, memorable and epic for its genre to be enjoyable and worth playing a few minutes? No, the Compilation isn't as epic as FFVII. But there's one thing it is, and that's fun. At least you can play the games, get a few laughs, do a few replays, and still find it enjoyable.

He's not saying that though. He's not saying, "I don't like the compilation because it wasn't as awesome as the original game." On the other hand, I see you saying he's saying that, but I believe he's saying something I agree with. FFVII stood every well on its own. It was an amazing game with tons of speculation left to the fans. Now they've taken a lot of that speculation away and it makes it less fun. Also they keep adding shit that doesn't need to be added. Now we've just got this huge mess of unfinished business where as before, it stood just fine on its own.

Things that could have been expanded upon that were already there were skipped over (the Wutai War, the formation of Shinra, more info on Jenova, the background of the FFVII world, etc etc), and instead SE chose to just MAKE UP bullshit instead, with shit that never really needed to exist, like the Genesis War, Deepground, etc etc. The only real accomplishment of the Compilation was expanding on Zack and Sephiroth.

I agree with this as well. Who cares about Deepground and Genesis? And OMG, yes at making things up. Retcon after retcon after retcon. They can't keep their own story straight. If it ain't broke, don't fix it, period. I'm almost fearing the next entry at this point.

 

[Makoeyes987]

When I say live up to the original, I mean in terms of quality, enrichment, etc. All of that, that you look at when evaluating its merit and purpose in terms of telling a story. FFVII's story. By questioning whether or not it has any real purpose and saying nothing really "poignant" has been added, you're essentially stating its superfluous compared to the original.

To be honest, I think in terms of narrative service, FFVII's Compilation should've been a one time, 10th Anniversary special one-shot of related materials. ACC, OTWTS, and then CC, sans Genesis. Or at the very least, leave Genesis as an exclusive CC character. BC, and DC are probably the weakest in terms of merit or necessity to FFVII's overall universe. They're just fun distractions.

FFVII doesn't necessarily leave itself no wiggle room for a sequel, but in terms of everything that matters, most of it's been tied up. There are no burning questions that need to be answered save for what happened to the planet after Holy was ejaculated out of the planet.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Also I'd like to add that it doesn't help that a lot of the Compilation is just not written very well. After playing a lot of other video games, I'm starting to have an eye for good writing, and well, shit like DoC and ACC ain't it.

Not that a game has to have stellar or even, good writing to be a good time, but...it's not like the FFVII franchise exists in a vacuum. With gamers having many more options to choose from nowadays, S-E better step up their game, because people are starting to notice.

When I say live up to the original, I mean in terms of quality, enrichment, etc. All of that, that you look at when evaluating its merit and purpose in terms of telling a story.

Like I said, I was never expecting another FFVII level epic. Just something...that would stand the test of time. Something that added to the FFVII world in a meaningful way, big or small.

 

[ForceStealer]

That's the thing though; the irony with CC, for example is that they DID try to come up with something earth-shatteringly earth-shattering and it was just fucking corny,

No it didn't. Dirge of Cerberus did. But Crisis Core never put the WORLD at risk. Junon was the only place that saw any real action. Shinra HQ got attacked, and Sector 8 or whatever, but it doesn't seem like skirmishes such as these were particularly unusual for Shinra.


Also, yes they made things up, but could someone type out a list of these "retcon after retcon after retcon?" I can think of a few...but not that many, certainly less than a lot of other series. Are you people using a different definition of retcon?

 

[Dashell]

When I say live up to the original, I mean in terms of quality, enrichment, etc. All of that, that you look at when evaluating its merit and purpose in terms of telling a story.

It doesn't matter, that's not what he's saying

As for retcons and stuff... okay I meant contradictions actually, and they're not huge but didn't Tres write something up about it once? It's not a big freaking deal or anything but it's annoying when they can't even get their own story straight.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

No it didn't. Dirge of Cerberus did. But Crisis Core never put the WORLD at risk. Junon was the only place that saw any real action. Shinra HQ got attacked, and Sector 8 or whatever, but it doesn't seem like skirmishes such as these were particularly unusual for Shinra.

Let me reiterate; choosing to MAKE UP the Genesis War instead of focusing on the ALREADY OCCURRING AND ESTABLISHED IN THE ORIGINAL GAME WAR was fucking corny.

 

[Dashell]

BTW before people get on my case too much, I just want to say that I don't think the Compilation was a total mistake or just awful or anything. It was pretty much inevitable, but they really should have been more careful with it, and because of that, part of me thinks they shouldn't have done it at all.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

I feel the same way. I feel that the Compilation COULD HAVE been a lot better (even if wholly unnecessary), but they didn't seem to put a lot of thought into it.

 

[Makoeyes987]

You're saying you're not comparing the Compilation to the original, but all of the traits, and direction you say you would've rather seen the Compilation go, are all directly tied to aspects and sub-plots of the original game. That just screams you're looking at the Compilation through an original game perspective.

You're not expecting each game to be FFVII, but you are comparing its worth and merit in part by how well it makes a beeline to the original game. Not every franchise or game has to, or will make a spinoff that does that. If the Compilation kept riding the coattails of the original game, there'd be the problem of it being derivative in terms of plot. See Star Wars and its current fapping to the Clone Wars. It'd be on the exact opposite end of the spectrum.

I suppose they could've played it safe, and just kept turning out stories that were directly connected to what went on the original game, thereby satisfying most fans, since...most fans liked the original game. But to be fair, they went the road less traveled and tried to do something new with the characters.

 

[ForceStealer]

Nor am I giving it a free pass, Quex. I just hear about these MOUNDS of retcons when I always thought I retcon involved completely undoing something that happened (i.e. Sephiroth jumping in LO, which doesn't count, btw, as LO doesn't count) rather than simply adding shit.

Mog, I wonder sometimes whether the Genesis stuff was a "war" or just some SOLDIER matter that got a little bit out of hand. Most of the people didn't even know it was happening ('cept in Junon, of course). Not on the scale of AVALANCHE, Wutai, or even the so-called "Jenova" war.
But again, I agree with you about Wutai.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

You're saying you're not comparing the Compilation to the original, but all of the traits, and direction you say you would've rather seen the Compilation go, are all directly tied to aspects and sub-plots of the original game. That just screams you're looking at the Compilation through an original game perspective.

No shit, dude. What other perspective am I supposed to look at it on? Of course it should be judged on its own merits, but yeah, I firmly believe that an expansion of a franchise should have some tie to the original. If they didn't, it might as well not be an expansion at all, but an original standalone entry.

You're not expecting each game to be FFVII, but you are comparing its worth and merit in part by how well it makes a beeline to the original game.

That's not what I'm saying at all. First off, I'm just saying it should be good. Second, I'm saying that making up shit just to make it up (see; Deepground, Genesis) isn't good writing, and instead its better to focus on established events instead of complicating things with new shit. There's nothing wrong with an expansion featuring entirely new aspects of a world. But it has to have context and not just be a throw in. Please, stop misconstruing what I'm saying.

Not every franchise or game has to, or will make a spinoff that does that.

Can you tell me what good franchise/game made a spinoff that doesn't?

I suppose they could've played it safe, and just kept turning out stories that were directly connected to what went on the original game, thereby satisfying most fans, since...most fans liked the original game. But to be fair, they went the road less traveled and tried to do something new with the characters.

And in my opinion, failed. But like I said, that's not what I'm saying.

 

[Makoeyes987]

No shit, dude. What other perspective am I supposed to look at it on? Of course it should be judged on its own merits, but yeah, I firmly believe that an expansion of a franchise should have some tie to the original. If they didn't, it might as well not be an expansion at all, but an original standalone entry.

Well actually, I try to look at it more on what it offers on its own, before evaluating it as a title that just is connected. I try to see what it offers and what's enjoyable on its own, versus just what it is in terms of its connectivity to whatever came before it.

That's not what I'm saying at all. First off, I'm just saying it should be good. Second, I'm saying that making up shit just to make it up (see; Deepground, Genesis) isn't good writing, and instead its better to focus on established events instead of complicating things with new shit. There's nothing wrong with an expansion featuring entirely new aspects of a world. But it has to have context and not just be a throw in. Please, stop misconstruing what I'm saying.

Well, we just seem to have varying criteria on how to determine whether its good or not.

I agree with you somewhat, but then again, I think exercising complete creativity to do something new is ballsy and a sign of good writing, provided it turns out good (which of course you say, it didn't). While I don't think the Compilation's writing as a whole is as good as FFVII's, I think that AC and CC to the very least are good in their own right, fitting their genre and specifications. Especially taken together.

At the very least, trying something new shows that you're not just content going the safe route, and sticking to what you know works. If you're confident enough to write something new with the characters, and give them an entirely new scenario, that earns respect in my eyes. And if you're actually able to get it to work, then that's even better.

Can you tell me what good franchise/game DOES make a spinoff that doesn't?

Slayers's spinoff, Lost Universe comes to mind. Then there's Resident Evil 4. RE5 despite its gameplay weaknesses. Hell, Warioware is another example. Battle Angel Alita: Last Order. There's even Angel, that struck out and became not just a spinoff, but its own separate story and series.