What did Cloud mean when he said this?

[LicoriceAllsorts]

OK I know this topic has probably been discussed to death, but today I realised that after so many years in the fandom, I still don't know what Cloud meant when he delivered his famous last lines:

Cloud
An answer from the Planet...
the Promised Land...
I think I can meet her...there.

"Her" is Aerith, obviously. Is he referring to the lifestream when he mentions the Promised Land? Does he think he can meet her again in the lifestream, i.e. after death? And why exactly is the planet offering an answer? What question did he ask?

I know these lines have been discussed many times over and lots of people here will have some well-informed insights to offer, so please, chime in.

 

[Ite]

Tifa’s response is equally vague: “Yeah, let’s go meet her.”

I don’t have the original Japanese on hand. But I think you’re on track. Aeris’ hand reaching for him was the Planet telling him that death is the Promised Land, and the reunion he longs for.

 

[Arianna]

Tifa's words and expression/body language makes me think that she's really in love with Cloud, but realizes at that moment that he had feelings for Aerith, she had a rival, and for the moment, has given up, realizing this. She's willing to let him have what he wants out of love, even if that means losing him - if she hasn't already...

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Is this gonna be an LTD thread, folks?



(I don't think Lic necessarily means for it to be, but the topic at hand has almost exclusively been discussed within that context for 22 years. Arianna's comments, for example, are commonly seen from fans of Cloud and Aerith as a pairing making their case for why that is the canon/intended pairing.)

 

[Arianna]

Is this gonna be an LTD thread, folks?



(I don't think Lic necessarily means for it to be, but the topic at hand has almost exclusively been discussed within that context for 22 years. Arianna's comments, for example, are commonly seen from fans of Cloud and Aerith as a pairing making their case for why that is the canon/intended pairing.)

Oh! But I'm actively Cloud x Tifa!!! Still, it's what I read in Tifa's words and body language...

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I understand. Just wanted to get it figured out where we're likely going to go with the thread.

Obviously there's plenty of room to theorize and/or speculate on the topic without romantic minefields even being part of the equation, so I'm not suggesting that's the only place it can go.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

I really hope it doesn't become an LTD thread. That's the one interpretation of those lines with which I'm already very familiar. I'm more interested in why Cloud would think the Lifestream is a promise from the planet that we can meet one another after death, or at least that he can meet Aerith there (if, indeed, that's what the lines mean). And why Tifa would therefore effectively say, "Yeah, let's go die." Most of the rest of the expanded world Square Enix has given us for FFVII suggests that we don't meet our loved ones in the Lifestream. Once we die our consciousness and individuality is quickly lost (for good) as our spirit energy merges back into the Lifestream. Aerith of course is an almost unique entity in that she hangs on to her sense of self in the Lifestream because she's a protector of the planet... But how does Cloud know all this? Did the Lifestream tell him?

 

[Theozilla]

I think maybe you’re taking the lines a little too literally. It’s basically a round about way of Cloud and Tifa saying they should go live their lives to the fullest, because I seriously doubt the game’s intended takeaway is that the main characters’ finale lesson is that they are super looking forward to dying. That going out and living complete and fulfilling lives is the way to reach each individual’s “promised land”, i.e. self actualization upon the completion of life. And once that fully lived life is done, one can pass into the Lifestream satisfied. Even if individuality is lost upon joining with The Lifestream, it can still be seen as a form of reunification with loved ones and “meeting” them.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Yeah, I have to think Theo's take is the only thing that fits in light of what Cloud says on the deck of the Highwind in "Episode:Tifa" of "On the Way to A Smile":

"This is where it starts. A new... A new life. I'm going to keep on living."

 

[Obsidian Fire]

I think he's also saying that he now knows where Aerith is. And that Aerith is okay and at peace with herself as opposed to not being that way.

One of Cloud's major plot elements is if he actually exists or not and how when he's consciously "not there", he's a puppet for Sephiroth. So for him, "death" wouldn't really be "death" since his body would still be walking around and doing things for Sephiroth. At least not until Sephiroth dies.

But Aerith isn't like that. She's dead, but Sephrioth can't hurt her anymore and he can't get control of her either. So Cloud can stop worrying about if Aerith will be okay. When Sephiroth was in the Lifestream, and had taken control of it, that was something to worry about. But now it's not.

 

[Clement Rage]

Before the battle: Come, Planet! Show us your answer!

The Planet showed its answer through their victory and holy, and he thinks they're about to die due to everything collapsing. I read it as 'it looks like we're going to die. That's not so bad, though, since we did save the planet, and it helped us, showing it and Aeris' goodwill. If we're going to die, we did ourselves proud.' Then they don't die.

 

[Ite]

Ahhh so it’s kind of like a Toy Story 3 magical dumpster fire moment. I get it.

 

[Theozilla]

Hmmm, maybe. Though I don’t think the tonal framing of the scene, particularly the music, supports a reading that Cloud and Tifa are expecting to die soon. Like they climb up over the ledge immediately afterwards to meet up with everyone, it’s framed as pretty triumphant.

 

[Ite]

Hmm... true. At that point things have stopped rumbling and have become calm.

 

[Theozilla]

Though if it was a Toy Story 3 scenario, would that make Cid’s Highwind crew the little green aliens?

Actually that makes me wonder, will Cid’s Highwind crew get their own unique names/designs and expanded character in the Remake? Like Jessie, Biggs and Wedge are getting? Was it ever specified who they were in the OG, were they just random former Shinra employees who defected, or were they originally from Rocket Town and used to work for Cid before Shinra confiscated the airship from Cid?

 

[Ite]

The pilot levels up and limit breaks, but meh, not important enough to name

 

[ForceStealer]

In Dirge, one of the crew says that it's good to see Vincent and that he was one of the original Highwind crew. But I still don't think they gave him a name

 

[Celes777]

In Dirge, one of the crew says that it's good to see Vincent and that he was one of the original Highwind crew. But I still don't think they gave him a name

There is also a highwind crew in OTWTAS case of Barret. Maybe it is the same guy

 

[S.L.Kerrigan]

I think that one of the elements of answer that the planet gives to Cloud is the yellow orb that he sees during his last reverie.
It looks like a virgin planet in my opinion, perhaps the next destined to be colonized. The promised land or the next step in its direction. What's the purpose of this orb otherwise... There would be no point in showing the White Materia (which never has been stated to to be able to change to yellow color) here because the player has already clearly been made aware that Holy has already been summoned and that it was a prisoner of the red gangue (Sephiroth's hand).
It works if one believes that the Cetra (Lifestream) are a people who migrate from planet to planet, which seems to be the case if one believes the discourse of Sephiroth in the Shinra Mansion. It works less well if one thinks that the dialogue has been badly translated.
There is apparently a doubt about the "星" character that would mean more "land" than "planet", but the translation I receive from google or other translators gives me "star", which would have a more intergalactic connotation than a pastoral one, IMHO.
Maybe Cloud thinks he has a chance to join Aerith on this planet.

 

[Torrie]

This is currently being discussed on Twitter, in the comments as well:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1304274021870075906

What still obscures the meaning is that there are no pronouns in the original Japanese lines, but nowadays the common agreement seems to be that basically the dialog means the following: Cloud wonders what's going to happen next; the planet reveals the Lifestream; Cloud is sure they all are going to die and reunite with all their dear ones in the afterlife; Tifa agrees.

 

[rkss]

people still doing this?? I thought it was explained long ago

https://imgur.com/A7ad7bo

Transcript (not mine)

c「帰るぞティファ」
t「え？」
c「俺達も帰ってからやることがあった。まだ…あの山の向こうを見てない」
t「うん…帰ろう」

They want to go to mt. Nibelheim (where dead people live). This is the early script, it got changed during production so nothing was set on the stone obviously. Perhap these are just different ways to express the same thing who know.

If you ask me, the real answer is people getting duped by SE. C'mon

 

[The Blindfolded]

Google Translate: "I'm going home Tifa" "What?" "We had something to do after we got home. We haven't seen the other side of that mountain yet ..." "Yeah ... let's go home."

Your description appears to be accurate. ...I had no idea that this picture existed.

 

[KindOfBlue]

I suppose this is a somewhat related question, but what did Cait Sith mean when he gave Cloud that prediction about what he’s going to lose? In some translations, he predicts that Cloud will “lose something dear” and in others he predicts that Cloud will lose “the most important thing”. Which version is more accurate and any thoughts on what this line means?

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I suppose this is a somewhat related question, but what did Cait Sith mean when he gave Cloud that prediction about what he’s going to lose? In some translations, he predicts that Cloud will “lose something dear” and in others he predicts that Cloud will lose “the most important thing”. Which version is more accurate and any thoughts on what this line means?

Page 120 of the FFVII Ultimania Omega offers this:

https://thelifestream.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/ddssf200.jpg
---
Divination With Profound Meaning
Cait Sith’s predictions of Sephiroth’s whereabouts result in 3 outcomes. Disregarding the first two, in order to deceive the party, the third prediction becomes an excuse for Cait Sith to follow them ― he says, “What you pursue will be yours. But you will lose something dear.” When the story progresses to the Forgotten Capital, “you will lose something dear” seems to refer to the loss of Aerith, but when it advances to the Great Northern Cave, it can be thought of as the breakdown of Cloud’s sense of self.

[Screenshot caption]
Is it just something he thought up as an excuse to join the group?
---

 

[KindOfBlue]

Page 120 of the FFVII Ultimania Omega offers this:

https://thelifestream.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/ddssf200.jpg
---
Divination With Profound Meaning
Cait Sith’s predictions of Sephiroth’s whereabouts result in 3 outcomes. Disregarding the first two, in order to deceive the party, the third prediction becomes an excuse for Cait Sith to follow them ― he says, “What you pursue will be yours. But you will lose something dear.” When the story progresses to the Forgotten Capital, “you will lose something dear” seems to refer to the loss of Aerith, but when it advances to the Great Northern Cave, it can be thought of as the breakdown of Cloud’s sense of self.

[Screenshot caption]
Is it just something he thought up as an excuse to join the group?
---

That’s interesting, thanks! I feel like this angle along with the context for the line mentioned above adds so much more depth to those scenes than I initially thought. I watched the Tim Rogers videos to try to get a better feel for what may have been lost in translation and that’s where I think I saw the “most important thing” version of the line but I couldn’t tell if it was meant to be as shippy as it seemed.