What do you think Sephiroth's childhood was like?

[Cat Rage Room]

Unfortunately, unless I'm mistaken, there are no obscure Ultimania articles or creator interviews to give us any answers, so we have to resort to *gasp* speculation! We're not running blind though; we have a few clues, what we know of Shinra, what we know of Sephiroth, his personality, his abilities, his actions, etc etc.

What do you think it was like for him immediately following his birth, to the very first chronological appearance in the Compilation (Crisis Core)? We do know that they tested him in some way (I remember reading somewhere on how Shinra discovered how Mako and Jenova gives enhanced abilities, through their tests on Sephiroth). Raised in a lab? What was his exposure with other kids? How did Shinra test his combat abilities?

What really gets me is how it took Elfe to directly ask him 'what he's fighting for' for him to actually think about it. What kind of life was he leading before he actually fought, and how did Shinra keep in line and not actually have him question exactly why he's been fighting for the sake of Shinra since his teens? His personality is pretty collected and he's intelligent, so I don't think they locked him in a cage for years and years.

So, let's speculate. Discuss!

 

[Eerie]

I think he was raised in a lab, and was taken care of that way, trained and tested. He probably didn't think it was weird or anything, but when he stumbled on the notes, he understood that he'd been tricked and alone all along - hence this need of wanting to meet "mother". Because she'd be the only one who would "understand" him and truly love him.

I lack the in-depth knowledge about the Compilation and Sephiroth in particular, but that's how I felt while playing FFVII.

 

[looneymoon]

I always got an image of one of those really creepy, repressed home-schooled kids. Like cult member children. Then one day those kids grow up and learn that their parentage is totally fucked up and thus go off the deep end. I just recently watched the documentary "Children of God" so that's probably colouring my viewpoint though. For those who are fimililar with it, I don't wanna suggest Sephiroth was raped as a kid or anything, but surely he must have went through some fucked up abusive treatment as a kid. It would explain his antisocial behaviour and fragile mental state.

 

[Glaurung]

His personality is pretty collected and he's intelligent, so I don't think they locked him in a cage for years and years.

So, let's speculate. Discuss!

That he's intelligent and collected doesn't mean anything. You can lock up a child and train his intellect. He will never question anything because that's the normal thing for him. I think the key is how aloof he acts towards everyone (except Angeal and Genesis). That's what tell you that he's not used to deal with people, hinting that he might have been issolated from everyone save from the scientists since he was a little child.

I always got an image of one of those really creepy, repressed home-schooled kids. Like cult member children. Then one day those kids grow up and learn that their parentage is totally fucked up and thus go off the deep end. I just recently watched the documentary "Children of God" so that's probably colouring my viewpoint though. For those who are fimililar with it, I don't wanna suggest Sephiroth was raped as a kid or anything, but surely he must have went through some fucked up abusive treatment as a kid. It would explain his antisocial behaviour and fragile mental state.

As you said, abusive treatment doesn't always mean rape. The sole act of treating him like he was a mere experiment and not like a human being is abusive. I have the same image as you concerning Sephiroth's childhood.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

I actually feel Aerith and Sephiroth probably had similar early childhoods with the exception that Aerith still had her mother Ifalna and Sephiroth didn't have anyone. The fact that Hojo was his father probably made it even worse and outright familial abuse. He probably grew obsessed with the idea of Jenova, which I assume his father told him about. Possibly wished that this benevolent mother-figure would be able to save him from his asshole father.

On the other hand, he seemed to hold a very deep regard for Aerith's father compared to his own. Perhaps he secretly wished that Hojo wasn't such an asshat and would actually protect him. If they found Aerith at birth, then Sephiroth would be around age 10, which could mean he could internalize Gast as a 'good scientist' alone with the idea of him being a good father.

Also, I haven't played FFVII since high school, so I may be misremembering some details.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

I think he was raised in a lab, and was taken care of that way, trained and tested. He probably didn't think it was weird or anything, but when he stumbled on the notes, he understood that he'd been tricked and alone all along - hence this need of wanting to meet "mother". Because she'd be the only one who would "understand" him and truly love him.

He does mention that he felt 'he was different from the others, even since he was small', which is why I don't think they put him up in a lab, and he indeed, spent his childhood at least somewhat around other normal kids.

If at some point they decided 'Hey, this guy would be really good at leading thousands of soldiers to fight Wutai!', there had to be a point in his development where they integrated him with actual people. I always thought his aloofness was because he was stronger, faster and smarter than everyone else around him exponentially, not because he wasn't around anyone. I do concede that he saw lots of labs as a kid.

That he's intelligent and collected doesn't mean anything. You can lock up a child and train his intellect. He will never question anything because that's the normal thing for him. I think the key is how aloof he acts towards everyone (except Angeal and Genesis). That's what tell you that he's not used to deal with people, hinting that he might have been issolated from everyone save from the scientists since he was a little child.

I think it means a lot, actually. I'm playing Mass Effect 2, and there's a character called Subject Zero who was, raised in a lab because of her extraordinary 'biotic' powers (which in the setting, is sort of like psychic powers. Since she quite literally spent her childhood either in a room completely by herself (and, as you find out, her only window was a one way reflective mirror that allowed her to see the hundreds of other children together, but they couldn't see her) or in a lab.

As a result of all of those missed years of natural socialization, said character is fucking crazy. As aloof as he is, he does have basic social skills, and he must have the ability to lead, given his status in the army and everyone's reverence of him. Social skills have to be trained, and I don't think Shinra raising a sentient superweapon and giving him the rest of the world as his battleground would be a good idea if they didn't expose him to people.

 

[Glaurung]

On the other hand, he seemed to hold a very deep regard for Aerith's father compared to his own. Perhaps he secretly wished that Hojo wasn't such an asshat and would actually protect him. If they found Aerith at birth, then Sephiroth would be around age 10, which could mean he could internalize Gast as a 'good scientist' alone with the idea of him being a good father.

Also, I haven't played FFVII since high school, so I may be misremembering some details.

Sephiroth hated Hojo, he really despissed the man, but he never knew that Hojo was his father (Hojo tells you that before you kick his ass). I cannot think wha he would have done if someone had told him that half of his being was made from the man he hated so much

As a result of all of those missed years of natural socialization, said character is fucking crazy. As aloof as he is, he does have basic social skills, and he must have the ability to lead, given his status in the army and everyone's reverence of him. Social skills have to be trained, and I don't think Shinra raising a sentient superweapon and giving him the rest of the world as his battleground would be a good idea if they didn't expose him to people.

I can tell you that being issolated doesn't mean that you will end up crazy. Aloof and maybe socially clumsy, but not crazy. It might be an aiding fact to the result, but not the main reason. Though you made me wish that SE would be more clear on some things

 

[Splintered]

I'm going with the "grew up in a lab" idea. He probably grew up in a very controlled environment, and while there was abuse, I don't think it was the traditional kind (as in, I don't think he was smacked around by abusive men, nor do I think he was forced to mate with a feline like animal.) It was more cold, calculating, and he spent most of his time either training or by himself. It's probably not weird to him that he was a trained child soldier since it's all he knows. And because his life revolved around stats and how well he can do, it's probably what gave him the "I felt I was different- special" feeling. He knew he was better.

His lack of bonds or anything familial gave him the indepedence we see in later chapters despite his living as an experiment, he has little to no emotional dependency with the people in Shinra. It also maybe made him somewhat yearn for his mother or any bond.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

I guess I'm the only one who doesn't think he grew up in a lab!

Huh.

 

[Splintered]

I guess I'm the only one who doesn't think he grew up in a lab!

Huh.

I think it's probably because he was born as an experiment. Granted, neither Angeal nor Genesis grew up in a lab, but they had parental figures that weren't as... batshit as Hojo. Hojo is obsessed with Sephiroth, or at least that's the impression that I got. And I don't see Hojo ever leaving the lab so...

Plus, Sephiroth would have had to met Ghast at a relatively young age, since he died when Aerith was born.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

I think it's probably because he was born as an experiment. Granted, neither Angeal nor Genesis grew up in a lab, but they had parental figures that weren't as... batshit as Hojo. Hojo is obsessed with Sephiroth, or at least that's the impression that I got. And I don't see Hojo ever leaving the lab so...

Plus, Sephiroth would have had to met Ghast at a relatively young age, since he died when Aerith was born.

OKAY YOU SPENT YOUR ENTIRE LIFE IN A LAB

OKAY GO LEAD THOUSANDS OF SOLDIERS IN A WORLD WAR NOW

It doesn't add up. If anything, he'd develop an obtrusive mental disorder or something and he'd have to take medication in between sword swipes. I don't think he was raised in a lab. A very, very controlled environment, perhaps, but not a lab, like the one you'd see in the Shinra building. He does mention he felt different relative to other kids, and social experimentation/acclimation is a part of conducting tests. I figure they put him in a regulated environment with other kids at some point. A private Shinra funded school, perhaps?

 

[Splintered]

OKAY YOU SPENT YOUR ENTIRE LIFE IN A LAB

OKAY GO LEAD THOUSANDS OF SOLDIERS IN A WORLD WAR NOW

It doesn't add up. If anything, he'd develop an obtrusive mental disorder or something and he'd have to take medication in between sword swipes. I don't think he was raised in a lab. A very, very controlled environment, perhaps, but not a lab, like the one you'd see in the Shinra building. He does mention he felt different relative to other kids, and social experimentation/acclimation is a part of conducting tests. I figure they put him in a regulated environment with other kids at some point. A private Shinra funded school, perhaps?

He lived in a lab doesn't neccessarily mean that he was constantly in a tube or a cage. Or that he never had any kind of freedom. The Shinra building is filled with all kinds of different people if I recall.

That and Hojo works with the Shinra military, right? At least somewhat with the Mako injections. He might have had a great deal of exposure to soldiers.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

It just seems too simple. I can imagine him spending a lot of time in a lab, but living in a lab? It just seems to be too easy of an answer. It's sloppy.

 

[Splintered]

It just seems too simple. I can imagine him spending a lot of time in a lab, but living in a lab? It just seems to be too easy of an answer. It's sloppy.

Occam's Razor. I don't see why it is sloppy.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Occam's Razor. I don't see why it is sloppy.

Putting him in a lab instead of actually taking the time and funds to acclimate him into society, different environments, different people, to see how he responds to different stimuli (and if they wanted, to see how he fights), private schooling with other people, etc seems uh, pretty sloppy. And lazy.

 

[ForceStealer]

I'm with Mog here, I don't see why Sephiroth couldn't have gone to school on the plate. In fact there probably was a school solely for the children of Shinra employees.

As Mog said, having him lead troops after holing him up would be very odd. Also though, he was aloof, but not impossible to speak to. He opened up to Zack pretty quickly, and talked to some random grunt (Cloud) about having a hometown and had the mind to allow him to visit family and friends.

Also, didn't Sephiroth not know Hojo was his father? I know we generally assume that he learned that in the Lifestream, but I don't think he knew as a child.

So I say yes, a controlled life, and probably spent A LOT of time in the Shinra building, but the Shinra building is pretty huge with lots of people to interact with, and that's different from being locked in a lab.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I'm with Force and Mog. It would be a misstep on Shin-Ra's part to implement a guaranteed mental time-bomb as the key player of a war effort -- and no matter how fucked up Hojo is, he must have at least a basic understanding of psychology.

At any rate, I always had the impression that Seph was at least allowed to interact with other kids occasionally -- in an observed, controlled setting, of course -- so as for him to even gain an opinion that he was special in some way.

 

[Alex Strife]

From FFVII script:

Hojo
"Energy level is at...... 83%. It's taking too long."

(He resumes his button-pressing.)

Hojo
"My son is in need of power and help. ...That's the only reason."

Cloud
"...your son?"

Hojo
"Ha, ha, ha... Although he doesn't know."


So Sephiroth didn't know Hojo was his father.

On the other hand, I agree with Mog. He probably went to some ShinRa-only school, because he did mention he was different from other kids...

 

[ForceStealer]

Well technically all that means is Hojo doesn't think Sephiroth knows. And I agree that means that Sephiroth didn't know growing up. It's possible he learned on his adventure through the Lifestream though. Of course, now that I think about it, I'm not sure how exactly he would have learned that, neither of his parents were dead. But yeah, that's neither here nor there.

I would love to see what Sephiroth looked like when he was younger - and I'm not talking about chibi Sephiroth. I mean realistically as a child, preteen, teenager, etc. (Wonder if he had super Jenova-acne :monster)

 

[Dark and Divine]

I also agree that Sephiroth didn't spend his childhood in a lab, going instead went to a Shinra-owned school, as Mog, Force and Tres were saying.

He probably was monitorized all the time and it's not farfetched to say that even his teachers would have to report daily to Shinra about what kind of activities he was involved during the day.

After school, he probably would spend a few hours in Shinra's Sience Department were they would run a few tests in him. Maybe it was during this time that Sephiroth became so found of Professor Gast. Maybe he was kind to him, and the two would talk about a lot of things during the time Sephiroth would spend in the Science Department with Gast.

Probably after that, he would spend some time being trained to become a soldier and after that, they would let Sephiroth roam around the Shinra Building, giving him a false sense of freedom.

Of course, now that I think about it, I'm not sure how exactly he would have learned that, neither of his parents were dead. But yeah, that's neither here nor there.

Perhaps he learned that Hojo was his father by absorbing the spirit energy that was once Professor Gast. By doing that, not only he would know the thruth about his parents and himself, but he would also learn that Jenova was not an ancient.

 

[looneymoon]

Acne!? You mean, it's possible for a Square Enix character to have a hint of physical imperfection?

That said, I think saying that he was holed up in a lab for X amount of years in a little extreme. I would think ShinRa integrated him with other kids in necessary amounts. Probably in some sort of facility designed for other "special" kids, ones with abilities (child geniuses, special talents etc.) ShinRa would want to exploit in the future. As mentioned in the game, Sephiroth would feel disconnected from them. While I see him excercizing basic courtesy, I don't see him socializing with them all too well. Also if this were the case, it could have been during his stay at this institution he met Angeal/Genesis, two people who he actually did feel more of a connection to.

In fact, I just thought of this while typing, it could be possible that even Hojo grew up in a similar fashion if that were the case. That would be ironic.

 

[Dark and Divine]

I would think ShinRa integrated him with other kids in necessary amounts. Probably in some sort of facility designed for other "special" kids, ones with abilities (child geniuses, special talents etc.) ShinRa would want to exploit in the future. As mentioned in the game, Sephiroth would feel disconnected from them. While I see him excercizing basic courtesy, I don't see him socializing with them all too well. Also if this were the case, it could have been during his stay at this institution he met Angeal/Genesis, two people who he actually did feel more of a connection to.

A school for the gifted children? That could easily be the case.

But Sephiroth knowing Genesis or Angeal in that place is not possible, since it was stated in Crisis Core that the three met in Soldier.

Actualy, it was Sephiroth's feats in Soldier that made Genesis want to join the group.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

I also agree that Sephiroth didn't spend his childhood in a lab, going instead went to a Shinra-owned school, as Mog, Force and Tres were saying.

He probably was monitorized all the time and it's not farfetched to say that even his teachers would have to report daily to Shinra about what kind of activities he was involved during the day.

After school, he probably would spend a few hours in Shinra's Sience Department were they would run a few tests in him. Maybe it was during this time that Sephiroth became so found of Professor Gast. Maybe he was kind to him, and the two would talk about a lot of things during the time Sephiroth would spend in the Science Department with Gast.

Probably after that, he would spend some time being trained to become a soldier and after that, they would let Sephiroth roam around the Shinra Building, giving him a false sense of freedom.

I think this is the most solid and put together theory so far.

Another question, how did Sephiroth grow up not questioning 'what he fought for'? When he joined the military, how did that go?

I actually think Shinra might have not so much have forced him to join the military as in 'Okay you're our prototype for our super soldiers have fun', but they may have made it sort of like an Illuminati suggestion thing where they 'guided' Sephiroth into thinking he joined the army of his own free will, when in reality they subliminally out him through the motions to the point where Sephiroth himself thought he had no other skills.

When Elfe posted 'the question' to him, Sephiroth may have well thought 'Wait, why did I join the army after I graduated?'

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Going on what little evidence there is, I agree that he went to school. I'd vote for some kind of military style boarding school, probably from the age of five. Cold baths, long runs, nasty porridge for breakfast. Before that, a platoon of nannies, none of whom were allowed to cuddle him, mother him, or 'soften' him in any way, on pain of getting the sack. So, very much like a British upper class upbringing 60-70 years ago. It produced excellent soldiers bred both to lead and to obey, who were hopeless at human relationships.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Cold baths, long runs, nasty porridge for breakfast. Before that, a platoon of nannies, none of whom were allowed to cuddle him, mother him, or 'soften' him in any way, on pain of getting the sack. So, very much like a British upper class upbringing 60-70 years ago. It produced excellent soldiers bred both to lead and to obey, who were hopeless at human relationships.

I don't think so! If anything, I'd imagine he'd got the opposite; the very best in education filled with the most modern facilities imaginable, with extreme comfort and quality, but cold and distant teachers.