What do you think Sephiroth's childhood was like?

Loxetta

Pro Adventurer
So... It's impossible for him to have grown up in a lab and still go to a school-type setting? I don't get that. :monster: After all, I grew up in a house in a small town, but that doesn't mean I was confined there or anything. It's perfectly feasible that his 'home' was the labs or connected to the labs, but he still went to, like someone suggested, a type of Shinra private school or something. And he probably joined SOLDIER or the army pretty young, if Genesis and Angeal didn't join until they heard about him.
 

Alex Strife

Ex-SOLDIER
That's what I actually thought. Even if he may have gone to a school, it is never mentioned that he had any foster parents, or anything, so I'd say he lived in the labs, but went to a ShinRa school.
 

Cat Rage Room

Great Old One
AKA
Mog
So... It's impossible for him to have grown up in a lab and still go to a school-type setting? I don't get that.

When I think of a 'lab', I think of a test tube type setting where your 'room' is a bed and a toilet, and you get scanned and probed every day. Which, even if he went to school, wouldn't fly.

I'm not saying he grew up in a regular house or anything, but I do imagine him being brought up in a 'Shinra Orphanage' type place where the kids have some concept of normalcy, but they're closely monitored.

Also I'd like to point out that Midgar and the Shinra building, to my knowledge, may not have existed in Sephiroth's childhood. It's first chronological appearance is Zack's VR mission in Crisis Core, and the city was under construction and Sephiroth was well into his 20s.
 

Alex Strife

Ex-SOLDIER
I certainly believe that, at least Midgar did exist. Maybe just the lower zones, but would still be there. It's hard to think they'd build so much in so little time. But then again, if you look at Edge, it's fu**ing huge, and it's been just 2 years...
 

Loxetta

Pro Adventurer
Ted Lange As Your Bartender said:
When I think of a 'lab', I think of a test tube type setting where your 'room' is a bed and a toilet, and you get scanned and probed every day. Which, even if he went to school, wouldn't fly.

See, I envision something more like a hospital type of setting. :monster: Still not exactly friendly, but a hell of a lot more comfortable than just a cell or padded room or something.

I'm not saying he grew up in a regular house or anything, but I do imagine him being brought up in a 'Shinra Orphanage' type place where the kids have some concept of normalcy, but they're closely monitored.

Also I'd like to point out that Midgar and the Shinra building, to my knowledge, may not have existed in Sephiroth's childhood. It's first chronological appearance is Zack's VR mission in Crisis Core, and the city was under construction and Sephiroth was well into his 20s.

That's a good point. He might have spent his early life -- like, preschool age -- in Nibelheim. He does mention to Zack that the scenery feels familiar.

Alex Strife said:
I certainly believe that, at least Midgar did exist. Maybe just the lower zones, but would still be there. It's hard to think they'd build so much in so little time. But then again, if you look at Edge, it's fu**ing huge, and it's been just 2 years...

Well, Edge is still under construction, and it's also using a lot of pre-built pieces from Midgar, so that cuts down a lot of time.

It also doesn't 'float' :monster:
 

Alex Strife

Ex-SOLDIER
I'm sorry but I don't get what you mean by that last sentence? Excuse me! :)

As for Sephiroth in Nibelheim... hadn't thought of that, but hey, it makes sense. ShinRa manor anyone? And there's still children, there, and since it's a small town, easy to have him monitorized!
 

ForceStealer

Double Growth
Junon also was probably around.

Good point though, Mog, I had forgotten about Midgar possibly not being around. But Sephiroth does say that he felt like he'd been in Nibelheim before when you're there.
 

Alex Strife

Ex-SOLDIER
Oh, I get what you mean, there! Alright, it was just that the way you said it, I didn't get it! Yeah, that's true, in that sense, Edge is "easier" or "faster" to build...
 

Althea

Pro Adventurer
AKA
myfinalheaven
Hmmm this is a really interesting question

I agree with Ted Lange and Co, in that I think Sephiroth probably was integrated into a school. Rather, I think the tests that were done on him and his abilities could have been longitudinal in nature, happening bit by bit. Possibly they were like the training sessions Zack takes part in in Crisis Core, the simulation of the train etc.

Essentially, like others have suggested in order to be able to work in an army setting good communication with comrades is essential, something that an artificial setting can greatly impede psychological development. Maybe, part of the research was ethnographic in nature, simply observing him among peers to compare the effects of the Jenova cells etc...

The fact that Sephiroth said that he felt he was not like the other children, could suggest that he had experienced a somewhat normal surrounding in order to be able to make that judgement (of course, it's all relative, but hey).

I know I've repeated everyone lol
 
I don't think so! If anything, I'd imagine he'd got the opposite; the very best in education filled with the most modern facilities imaginable, with extreme comfort and quality, but cold and distant teachers.

You misunderstand me. These British schools had the best facilities and highly qualified teachers who were handy with a cane. They were designed to create leaders to serve the Empire: Spartans with the minds of Athenians. (Didn't always work, needless to say).
 

Glaurung

Forgot the cutesy in my other pants. Sorry.
AKA
Mama Dragon
Well technically all that means is Hojo doesn't think Sephiroth knows. And I agree that means that Sephiroth didn't know growing up. It's possible he learned on his adventure through the Lifestream though. Of course, now that I think about it, I'm not sure how exactly he would have learned that, neither of his parents were dead. But yeah, that's neither here nor there.

I would love to see what Sephiroth looked like when he was younger - and I'm not talking about chibi Sephiroth. I mean realistically as a child, preteen, teenager, etc. (Wonder if he had super Jenova-acne :monster)

Maybe he knew after you killed Hojo.

And for younger Sephiroth, I always look at Riku :monster:
 

Aki

he are sick
I'm going with from birth to the point where he became self aware he proberbly spent most of the time in a lab having tests carried out. Seeing if he reacted to mako etc


Then from his early childhood I'm guessing he spent alot of time around adults in controlled circumstances. When his abilities became apprant I'm guessing they tested him more and put him forward into the milatary programe.

And then started to experiment creating SOLDIER.


I believe he had little interaction with other children, or it didnt go well if he did which resulted in Shinra stopping it.
 

TheHammerOf...JUSTICE

Pro Adventurer
I know this is old but I felt like posting my thoughts.

Generally, given the information we've been given by ff7 I would venture that Sephiroth was raised in a normal school actually. Perhaps he could have gone to a military academy. I believe he had a Foster mother and father implanted from Shinra. He was probably raised normally ... although I would venture that his parents may not have truly loved him. Perhaps they even collected data for the science department secretly from Sephiroth.

Because of Sephiroth's arrogance and that he only cares for power I believe he may have been sent to a high end school. Like a private rich kid's school designed to breed leadership in the young. Shinra would only want the best education available for his greatest weapon after all right?

Since Sephiroth is basically a Super Soldier I would expect Shinra to have had all sorts of .... things planted into his life designed to make him want to join Shinra and SOLDIER. I don't feel he was experimented on once he reached an old enough age where he'd recognize something was wrong. He prob had visits with Hojo/Gast from a young age. As his family doctor.

I've always entertained the theory that he was told as a kid that he had fallen in Mako. His parents and his doctors could have used it as a cover story for his super human abilities rather easily. Like for example... "Why is my hair silver and why do my eyes glow." or "Why am I ridiculously stronger than all of my classmates?"

All they would have to say then is he fell into Mako and that caused all sorts of changes to his body. Sephiroth as a kid would be unable to understand any of the science behind it so he'd believe them thinking there telling the truth. Hell they could even turn around and say that he is pretty much the equivalent of a SOLDIER. Imagine if you told some young 11 year old boy that because he fell in Mako and survived he is the equivalent of a green beret now? He'd prob be obsessed with SOLDIER from there on out. Perhaps if Sephiroth was truly lonely he might even think he could fit in there.

Once he joined SOLDIER I'd reckon he'd prob come to meet Hojo on a far more consistent and regular basis. Hojo could then use the excuse of a checkup to gather more information about his prized specimen.

From there on out he'd become famous as the strongest SOLDIER alive and the rest is as they say history. Or back story.
 

Loxetta

Pro Adventurer
@ Hammer of Justice: I can't really envision that happening. Specifically, him having foster parents. It's said that Sephiroth was very attached to Gast when he was a child, and Hojo also seems like he was a constant in Seph's life, which is why I believed he either lived in a lab/research facility or was in and out of one very frequently. If he had some kind of regular home with foster parents or adoptive parents, it seems like they would have been mentioned.

I also don't think it would have taken being exposed to Shinra propaganda and such in order to get Sephiroth to join SOLDIER on his own. I get more of a feeling that he was raised and taught from day one that he was to be a SOLDIER, and since it was all he ever knew he didn't question it.
 

Cat Rage Room

Great Old One
AKA
Mog
I also don't think it would have taken being exposed to Shinra propaganda and such in order to get Sephiroth to join SOLDIER on his own. I get more of a feeling that he was raised and taught from day one that he was to be a SOLDIER, and since it was all he ever knew he didn't question it.

This is sort of wonky when you realize that Sephiroth wasn't raised in an alternate dimension or a bubble. We all know how strong Sephiroth's will is, so it wouldn't really work very long for Shinra to be like "YOU HAVE TO BE A SOLDIER HERE'S YOUR GUN DON'T COME BACK UNTIL SOMETHING'S DEAD" especially since with his intellect and skills, and know that other professions do indeed exist, he could easily be something else.

Sure, they could bully him like that as a kid or a young teen when he's relatively easy for them to put a bullet in his head if he snaps, but I figure it had to be something more subtle yet pervasive for him to want to be a SOLDIER.
 

Loxetta

Pro Adventurer
This is sort of wonky when you realize that Sephiroth wasn't raised in an alternate dimension or a bubble. We all know how strong Sephiroth's will is, so it wouldn't really work very long for Shinra to be like "YOU HAVE TO BE A SOLDIER HERE'S YOUR GUN DON'T COME BACK UNTIL SOMETHING'S DEAD" especially since with his intellect and skills, and know that other professions do indeed exist, he could easily be something else.

Sure, they could bully him like that as a kid or a young teen when he's relatively easy for them to put a bullet in his head if he snaps, but I figure it had to be something more subtle yet pervasive for him to want to be a SOLDIER.

Just because Sephiroth has a strong will doesn't mean he rebels against everything just because he can. He seems to follow orders pretty well up until Nibelheim. And I never mentioned anything about bullying. What I mean is more along the lines of having the concept that he's meant to be a SOLDIER, that he'll be a hero, that it's his destiny, all being ingrained into his head since being old enough to remember, so that being a SOLDIER turned into just a fact of his life.

It kind of comes down to one's perception of Sephiroth's character, but I can't imagine Sephiroth, if he'd thought he had the choice, choosing to become a SOLDIER on his own. He has no interest in fame or being a hero from what I can tell. And he's not stupid, so he wouldn't have chosen it just because it was something he was good at, because he could have done plenty of things, like was mentioned. Even with Shinra hamming up what being a SOLDIER means.
 

Loxetta

Pro Adventurer
Interesting. How do you think they did it?

I'll try -- I haven't spent a whole lot of time theorizing on it, so I don't really have details. Just basically what I already said. If, since being a toddler, Sephiroth was raised as though his choice was already made and he was a SOLDIER in training, I don't see why he would have questioned it until much later in life. Kind of like if your parents raise you to be Christian. When you're a kid, you follow it and don't really worry about it, because it's just... there. It's not complicated to you as a child because you simply are what you are, and to Sephiroth, he was what he was, a SOLDIER/SOLDIER in training.

In FF7's world you can join the army at least as early as fourteen, which is pretty young, and it's entirely possible Sephiroth may have joined even younger. If he started to wonder later (and he probably did, teenager and all) why he had the path in life that he did, there are a number of reasons why he didn't decide to do anything about it. He could have decided that it wasn't that bad for him to stay, and even enjoyed it, at least on some level. It's also possible that he could have even been scared -- leaving one lifestyle for another lifestyle would be a massive, daunting change for anybody, and if SOLDIER is all Sephiroth knew in his life, the thought probably would have freaked the crap out of him. IMO, it was probably a combination of the two.

And, alien space-bitches aside, it took the loss of his only two friends for him to consider leaving Shinra in Crisis Core, and even then it was up in the air, as he starts out by saying "Depending on what happens..." But Angeal and Genesis (and possibly Zack, later) being in SOLDIER might have given him a reason to stay, as well.


....Wow, way to go off on a tangent, Lox. :catfight:
 

Lord Noctis

Harbinger of Darkness
AKA
Caius Ballad
I'll try -- I haven't spent a whole lot of time theorizing on it, so I don't really have details. Just basically what I already said. If, since being a toddler, Sephiroth was raised as though his choice was already made and he was a SOLDIER in training, I don't see why he would have questioned it until much later in life. Kind of like if your parents raise you to be Christian. When you're a kid, you follow it and don't really worry about it, because it's just... there. It's not complicated to you as a child because you simply are what you are, and to Sephiroth, he was what he was, a SOLDIER/SOLDIER in training.

In FF7's world you can join the army at least as early as fourteen, which is pretty young, and it's entirely possible Sephiroth may have joined even younger. If he started to wonder later (and he probably did, teenager and all) why he had the path in life that he did, there are a number of reasons why he didn't decide to do anything about it. He could have decided that it wasn't that bad for him to stay, and even enjoyed it, at least on some level. It's also possible that he could have even been scared -- leaving one lifestyle for another lifestyle would be a massive, daunting change for anybody, and if SOLDIER is all Sephiroth knew in his life, the thought probably would have freaked the crap out of him. IMO, it was probably a combination of the two.

And, alien space-bitches aside, it took the loss of his only two friends for him to consider leaving Shinra in Crisis Core, and even then it was up in the air, as he starts out by saying "Depending on what happens..." But Angeal and Genesis (and possibly Zack, later) being in SOLDIER might have given him a reason to stay, as well.


....Wow, way to go off on a tangent, Lox. :catfight:

I approve of this theory.
 

TheHammerOf...JUSTICE

Pro Adventurer
@ Hammer of Justice: I can't really envision that happening. Specifically, him having foster parents. It's said that Sephiroth was very attached to Gast when he was a child, and Hojo also seems like he was a constant in Seph's life, which is why I believed he either lived in a lab/research facility or was in and out of one very frequently. If he had some kind of regular home with foster parents or adoptive parents, it seems like they would have been mentioned.

I also don't think it would have taken being exposed to Shinra propaganda and such in order to get Sephiroth to join SOLDIER on his own. I get more of a feeling that he was raised and taught from day one that he was to be a SOLDIER, and since it was all he ever knew he didn't question it.

Alright that's your opinion but I have to kindly disagree. Here's why:

Sephiroth wants revenge on Cloud because Cloud defeated him. Why is he upset over Cloud beating him? Because it proved that he wasn't the immortal and in fact beatable. This means Sephiroth actually enjoyed the fame and the power that came from his position. He was arrogant. He saw himself as far above the average human. He was special. How could he.... the greatest SOLDIER.... get defeated by a mere grunt. He obviously felt humiliated for it because his biggest motivation in ff7 is proving how powerless cloud is on top of proving he is nothing more than a puppet to be controlled.

You heard him. He always saw himself as different from others. At first usually people feel worse because they don't fit in.... but eventually most people tend to see themselves as special because of it. I don't think I need to stress how arrogant that line of thought is.

That means it was his choice to be in SOLDIER.

Yes he was attached to gast as a child. Perhaps gast had even been his foster father in my theory before being replaced by someone else when he left Shinra.

My problem with what you said about him being raised a in a laboratory comes from the fact that he saw himself as different from others. He obviously has had interaction with other children his age. And I'm sure many of his fellow SOLDIERS prob talked about there childhoods. This means if he were raised in a lab then he would know that he was completely different from them. Where as in 7 he obviously understood he had led a normal but controlled life.

If he was raised in a lab with no one to talk to accept scientists asking him questions and performing tests... I swear I'd think after he got over his initial shyness he'd prob be a happy go lucky guy like zack in CC. Compared to the lab anything would seem like heaven in comparison.

The final knock against the lab theory is... would he even go crazy knowing the information in nibleheim? Shinra's controlled him his entire life. I don't think finding out they controlled his birth would make any difference. He's already been a prisoner and a slave.

Also you can't make someone fight if there unwilling to fight. Sephiroth is obviously willing to fight.... and he obviously enjoys fighting. We don't see him ever coping with the make believe brain chip ordering him to fight.
 

TheHammerOf...JUSTICE

Pro Adventurer
If he was raised in a lab with no one to talk to accept scientists asking him questions and performing tests... I swear I'd think after he got over his initial shyness he'd prob be a happy go lucky guy like zack in CC. Compared to the lab anything would seem like heaven in comparison.
I didn't reread this. I meant to say that after being in the lab for so many years the transfer to SOLDIER would have been.... bliss for Sephiroth. He'd probably have been so happy to talk to people his own age and the freedom that he'd gotten that he'd be a happy go lucky guy like zack.
 

Loxetta

Pro Adventurer
Alright that's your opinion but I have to kindly disagree. Here's why:

Sephiroth wants revenge on Cloud because Cloud defeated him. Why is he upset over Cloud beating him? Because it proved that he wasn't the immortal and in fact beatable.

Which is true. However, his bag of marbles had spilled when Cloud gave him the once-over. Sephiroth, at that point, thought he was a superior race and meant to be a god.

This means Sephiroth actually enjoyed the fame and the power that came from his position.

I don't see how that is inferred from the prior statement. Considering the circumstances and that, in Crisis Core, it's pretty clear that he had no desire for being famous. In the Mako Reactor 5 scene, Genesis says that Sephiroth's fame should have been his, and Sephiroth says it's petty, and that Genesis can be the hero.

He was arrogant. He saw himself as far above the average human. He was special. How could he.... the greatest SOLDIER.... get defeated by a mere grunt. He obviously felt humiliated for it because his biggest motivation in ff7 is proving how powerless cloud is on top of proving he is nothing more than a puppet to be controlled.

Yea, but again, he had also flipped his lid and thought he was the Chosen One of the Ancient race, by this point. You have to take that into account.

You heard him. He always saw himself as different from others. At first usually people feel worse because they don't fit in.... but eventually most people tend to see themselves as special because of it. I don't think I need to stress how arrogant that line of thought is.

That means it was his choice to be in SOLDIER.

I can understand this, but when you watch the Nibelheim scene, both the original and CC's retelling, the way Sephiroth acts is as though he is only then really realizing the gravity of him being different and special. Not to say he didn't realize he was different before, because obviously he did, but that the implications of that never clicked in his mind, if that makes any sense. As though Sephiroth knew in the past that he was different, but he never really concentrated on it enough to give a damn, until then.

I also don't see how that would automatically mean he chose SOLDIER.

Yes he was attached to gast as a child. Perhaps gast had even been his foster father in my theory before being replaced by someone else when he left Shinra.

My problem with what you said about him being raised a in a laboratory comes from the fact that he saw himself as different from others. He obviously has had interaction with other children his age. And I'm sure many of his fellow SOLDIERS prob talked about there childhoods. This means if he were raised in a lab then he would know that he was completely different from them. Where as in 7 he obviously understood he had led a normal but controlled life.

If he was raised in a lab with no one to talk to accept scientists asking him questions and performing tests... I swear I'd think after he got over his initial shyness he'd prob be a happy go lucky guy like zack in CC. Compared to the lab anything would seem like heaven in comparison.

I think I said this in a past post in this thread, but when I think 'raised in a lab/research facility' I don't mean he was confined to a 10x10 room by himself all his life. He could have very well gone to school, maybe some kind of private school or military-esque school, something like that, and still lived in the lab. It probably would have been a setting more like a hospital or care facility, where he had his own room and a regular bed but so that he could still be monitored. Hell, there might have even been other children there, and they had tutors that stayed there. That one's just wild guessing though.

The final knock against the lab theory is... would he even go crazy knowing the information in nibleheim? Shinra's controlled him his entire life. I don't think finding out they controlled his birth would make any difference. He's already been a prisoner and a slave.

It's highly likely that Shinra lied to him about his origins. He believed Jenova was his birth mother and knew nothing of Lucrecia, for instance.

Also you can't make someone fight if there unwilling to fight. Sephiroth is obviously willing to fight.... and he obviously enjoys fighting. We don't see him ever coping with the make believe brain chip ordering him to fight.

Sephiroth does seem to enjoy fighting, but that still doesn't prove SOLDIER would have been his one and only choice if he'd gotten a choice. For example, I enjoy and am good at cooking, but I don't want to be a chef. I'm sure there's plenty of other professions Sephiroth would have liked, possibly even more than SOLDIER.

And I've posted my theories on why he might have chose to stay in SOLDIER in my last post.
 
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