SPOILERS What does Sephiroth actually want from Cloud? (*Open Spoilers*)

Roundhouse

Roundhouse

Pro Adventurer
We were discussing this on Discord, and I was curious as to what forum members think. Why does Sephiroth specifically ask for help from Cloud?

Perhaps more importantly, why doesn't he just control Cloud as in the OG, like with the black materia incident? Is what he requires something that can only be done voluntarily? If so, what could that possibly be?
 
Theozilla

Theozilla

Kaiju Member
I mean even in the OG Sephiroth doesn't/can't control Cloud 24/7. It's not an absolute control.

Also an interesting bit of trivia people pointed out in another thread, even in the OG there are instances of Sephiroth speaking to Cloud as if he's an "ally", like when Aerith leaves for the forgotten capital.
 
LNK

LNK

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Nate
Roundhouse said:
We were discussing this on Discord, and I was curious as to what forum members think. Why does Sephiroth specifically ask for help from Cloud?

Perhaps more importantly, why doesn't he just control Cloud as in the OG, like with the black materia incident? Is what he requires something that can only be done voluntarily? If so, what could that possibly be?
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I'm getting flashes of the OT Star Wars with this question. It makes me think of Vader wanting Luke to join him in taking over the galaxy.

Maybe Sephiroth wants Cloud to essentially do the same, idk. Good question!

My guess is he'll still manipulate Cloud into getting the black materia. I wish he'd manipulate him into killing Aerith though!
 
Lord Noctis

Lord Noctis

Harbinger of Darkness
AKA
Caius Ballad
I don't think it's any different than in the OG, at least not on a fundamental level. Sephiroth could force Cloud to help him via mind control, but the thought of mind fucking Cloud so hard and breaking him so completely that he'd willingly and knowingly help Sephiroth, as he did when he gave him the Black Materia on the OG, simply appeals to Sephiroth far more on a personal level
 
LNK

LNK

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Nate
Ryvius said:
We're so evil for the sake of the narrative, aren't we? Crush Sector 7! Let Jessie be dead! Murder Aerith! With Cloud this time! :monster:
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Lol I know I know. I just want to see how the group would respond to something like that. A couple of my favorite endings are FF15 and Tales of Berseria though
 
Glaurung

Glaurung

Forgot the cutesy in my other pants. Sorry.
AKA
Mama Dragon
Roundhouse said:
We were discussing this on Discord, and I was curious as to what forum members think. Why does Sephiroth specifically ask for help from Cloud?

Perhaps more importantly, why doesn't he just control Cloud as in the OG, like with the black materia incident? Is what he requires something that can only be done voluntarily? If so, what could that possibly be?
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His main objective is to make Cloud travel to the Northern Crater, where Sephiroth's body is. That, and that Cloud would be a much more useful puppet than a random guy with no battle experience who was unlucky enough to have Hojo experiment on him. Remember that Jenova is a hive mind, and that what it really wants is to be complete again.

About the control, I guess it's all about proximity. In the OG, the nearer the got to the source or, better put, where there was more concentration of Jenova cells, the less control Cloud had over himself, until he finally gave the Black Materia away. Pair that with Sephiroth taunting him, maybe knowing that he was already conflicted, and then, as the coup the grace, Hojo revealing that he was just a failed experiment, unworthy of even a number.

In the Remake? We can only guess. Maybe he needs a complete new body to possess and that's why he wants Cloud to get strong enough?
 
Odysseus

Odysseus

Ninja Potato
AKA
Ody
Mama Dragon said:
About the control, I guess it's all about proximity. In the OG, the nearer the got to the source or, better put, where there was more concentration of Jenova cells, the less control Cloud had over himself, until he finally gave the Black Materia away. Pair that with Sephiroth taunting him, maybe knowing that he was already conflicted, and then, as the coup the grace, Hojo revealing that he was just a failed experiment, unworthy of even a number.
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Also recall that starting at the Temple of the Ancients, Sephiroth had been systematically deteriorating Cloud's sense of self. From wresting away his self control and making him beat Aerith, to the infamous "beacause you are a puppet," culminating in his reveal that Cloud was never even at the moment that defined his life, some black haired man in his place. By the time Cloud and the real Sephiroth were in the same room, Cloud no longer even believed himself to be a person, just another extension of Sephiroth's will.

I only hope the remake keeps it that dramatic and engaging, I could probably write an essay about the whole thing.
 
Master Bates

Master Bates

Do you enjoy your life?
AKA
Mr. Koiwai
Well I always thought it was because he wanted to fuck with him, and I don't mean this as a 'he wants to stick his sword in Cloud'. Like really fuck with him and break him completely because he's still bitter over what happened at the Nibelheim reactor. He couldn't make peace with the fact that he, the #1 SOLDIER, hero, son of Jenova, was hauled to the lifestream by some no-name Shinra grunt who had a sword stuck through his chest. I liken it to a predator playing with his food--- mentally and psychologically.
 
Master Bates

Master Bates

Do you enjoy your life?
AKA
Mr. Koiwai
I guess to an extent?

His real objective is still becoming a god. Breaking Cloud, which is more to assuage a personal grudge, just happened to come along with the quest because of Cloud's connection to events and relevant people (e.g. Aerith), so him playing with his mind and manipulating him is hitting two birds with one stone: (1) he gets closer to his objective; and (2) he gets to fuck with Cloud in the process.
 
Glaurung

Glaurung

Forgot the cutesy in my other pants. Sorry.
AKA
Mama Dragon
Jokes aside, I always understood that what defined Sephiroth the most, aside from his megalomania, was pure and unadultered spite. I mean, man can hold a grudge.

Yes, I know years later a certain fedora-wearing hobo said "hold my Ebony" and upped it, but it still holds.
 
Purple

Purple

Charmed
A few have postulated that Cloud is Sephiroth’s “horcrux” which I kinda dig because as long as Cloud remembers him he can continue to exist but the problem is, he doesn’t have a corporeal body after the OG. So if we’re going by the idea that Remake Sephiroth is from the future then maybe he needs Cloud to be whole again or something. Lol. Just my tin foil hat theory
 
Shademp

Shademp

420
Sephiroth wants to transcend time and space. He wants neither the end of being diluted into the lifestream, nor the end of being swallowed up by a supernova. It's not enough to become a god with the Meteor plan, for then even after becoming one with the planet Sephiroth could still be destroyed by catastrophic astronomical events. He wants to become a guaranteed eternal god.

I interpret the ending of FFVIIR as Sephiroth using Cloud to defeat the Whispers, which defeats one obstacle towards eternal godhood. Despite Cloud just having defeated "destiny", unwittingly doing so on Sephiroth's behalf, Sephiroth STILL says at the edge of creation "Lend me your strength. Let us defy destiny, together." to Cloud.

This is not a request for Cloud to just be by Sephiroth's side because YAOI BAIT. There is still some obstacle left towards Sephiroth fully transcending time/entropy. Some entity or thing that Cloud needs to defeat/remove, same as Sephiroth needed Cloud in order to defeat the Whispers.

Same as Square went bonkers with the inclusion of the Whispers in FFVIIR, they may go bonkers with who/what the next thing is that Cloud & team must defeat so that they "defy destiny", just as Sephiroth planned. Will Cloud battle the Time Guardian, whom I speculate is the originator behind the Whispers? Will Genesis be acting as an agent of the planet's will, either waking up early or arriving from the future to try and stop Sephiroth's plan? That'd certainly tie up the loose end of Dirge's secret ending if FFVIIR Part 2 or Part 3 ends with us defeating Genesis.

Sephiroth wants from Cloud to be a puppet for his plans, same as always. It's also entirely possible that this Sephiroth has gained such a deep respect for Cloud that he wants them to share eternity together, but that idea is much more uninteresting compared to the actual scheming that's involved here.
 
Odysseus

Odysseus

Ninja Potato
AKA
Ody
We know from case of lifestream black that Sephiroth more or less defined his existence by his hatred of Cloud in order to sustain himself after death and not merge with the Planet. If ??? Sephiroth is actually a post Advent Children incarnation of the character like some are theorizing, perhaps the process was repeated after his defeat there. Maybe this is a Sephiroth that has become so wholly attached to "Cloud Strife" as a concept that he can no longer imagine a world without him. Some kind of Stockholm syndrome taken up to 11.

It'd be an ironic twist; as Cloud was once so drawn to Sephiroth, now Sephiroth is hopelessly drawn to Cloud. If ??? Sephiroth is a seperate entity from the Sephiroth at the North Crater, I wonder how that's all going to work out.

Also, the only condition under which I'd be okay with Gackt coming back is if we get to murder him in horrible fashion. That'd still leave the loose end of Weiss unless they come together.
 
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