SPOILERS What does Sephiroth actually want from Cloud? (*Open Spoilers*)

[Shademp]

Also, the only condition under which I'd be okay with Gackt coming back is if we get to murder him in horrible fashion. That'd still leave the loose end of Weiss unless they come together.

My bet would be that we don't get the satisfaction of defeating the likeness of Gackt, but that we instead get to fight Genesis Avatar fused with Weiss and Nero. Similar to how the ending of FFVIIR included the silver-haired-trio without actually including them (in a sense), Genesis could easily be included in a future Remake part without showing his familiar human form.

unless they come together.

This was intentional, wasn't it?

 

[Odysseus]

My bet would be that we don't get the satisfaction of defeating the likeness of Gackt, but that we instead get to fight Genesis Avatar fused with Weiss and Nero. Similar to how the ending of FFVIIR included the silver-haired-trio without actually including them (in a sense), Genesis could easily be included in a future Remake part without showing his familiar human form.

Damn, that would be a decent way of avoiding the issue of using his likeness and also getting out of having to be too specific with compilation lore. I doubt they'd want to get into the nitty gritty of Dirge and Crisis Core in a project meant to appeal to a new audience. Also lets them avoid having to write for three edge lords.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Is there anyone who actually likes the character of Genesis unironically?

 

[Lord Noctis]

Like is a strong word, but I don't hate Genesis myself. He's just kinda there, ya know? The ultimate case of a shrug and a whatever before moving on to more interesting characters.

 

[Prism]

I think it depends how seriously you take him. He’s fun, and I mean, sure...dude’s gotta have more of a personality than just reciting LOVELESS all the time. I do unironically like Genesis in some sense in the context of Crisis Core.

But man, if he shows up in the Remake Nibelheim incident, I will turn off my PS4/5 right then and there.

Also, on the topic of Sephiroth’s motives in controlling Cloud - it is probably true what people are suggesting here. Just as Cloud was drawn to the Northern Cave in the OG, defeating the Arbiters of Fate seems right up a similar alley.
Speaking of puppetry, we haven’t seen Cloud do any real puppet-y stuff yet, have we? I can’t remember if they show Cloud doing things beyond his will in the OG before they leave Midgar. (Headaches hinting at it aside)

 

[Makoeyes987]

Yeah he definitely has fans.

He's actually popular, like not main character popular but he's got fans. Last popularity poll he made #100 of all FF characters. For a character like him that's not too bad.

 

[Odysseus]

I think for myself, Gackt is to crisis core what Chapter 18 is to the remake for a lot of people. He detracts so heavily from the game and retroactively weakens so much of the original that I simply can't overlook it. He's the sole reason I think Crisis Core was the worst the compilation had to offer.

He definitely has his fans though, I used to see cosplayes of him at nearly every convention I went to from like 2013 to 2017.

 

[Prism]

I think for myself, Gackt is to crisis core what Chapter 18 is to the remake for a lot of people. He detracts so heavily from the game and retroactively weakens so much of the original that I simply can't overlook it. He's the sole reason I think Crisis Core was the worst the compilation had to offer.

He definitely has his fans though, I used to see cosplayes of him at nearly every convention I went to from like 2013 to 2017.

I mean, you gotta admit CC had some really good moments that expanded on the original. Cloud and Zack’s friendship being expanded on, Zack and Aerith’s relationship, etc. If the game ended just after Nibelheim and Sephiroth was the final boss, would that change your view on it? If they cut out that final Genesis dungeon entirely.

Even so, I can understand the cosplayers - Genesis seems fun to dress up as for some reason.

 

[Rydeen]

I mean, you gotta admit CC had some really good moments that expanded on the original. Cloud and Zack’s friendship being expanded on, Zack and Aerith’s relationship, etc. If the game ended just after Nibelheim and Sephiroth was the final boss, would that change your view on it? If they cut out that final Genesis dungeon entirely.

Even so, I can understand the cosplayers - Genesis seems fun to dress up as for some reason.

I enjoyed everything about CC except the major characters. The exceptions to that would be Zack, Cloud, and Lazard. Everyone else pissed me off.

 

[looneymoon]

The addition of a celebrity likeness was the point of the franchise where I had to come to grips with FF7 being a business property, and kissed the integrity of the anti-corporate through-line in the narrative goodbye

 

[Odysseus]

I mean, you gotta admit CC had some really good moments that expanded on the original. Cloud and Zack’s friendship being expanded on, Zack and Aerith’s relationship, etc. If the game ended just after Nibelheim and Sephiroth was the final boss, would that change your view on it? If they cut out that final Genesis dungeon entirely.

Even so, I can understand the cosplayers - Genesis seems fun to dress up as for some reason.

I know crisis core isn't without merit. There are things I like, and I really have tried to learn to like it. It's without a doubt the most beloved compilation entry for a reason. Just... Every time I hear Gackt speak, or Hollander, or any time I hear Angeal go on about SOLDIER HONOR and DREAMSSS, every time I hear the song "why," I just remember why I hate the game so much. Zack's story had so much potential to be interesting, so many hard hitting avenues that could have been explored, but it all gets overshadowed by a bunch of bullshit. Ending at Nibleheim would not fix any of my issues, they are ever present throughout the entire game.

I guess the reason I don't like it is because it was so close to being something great, my expectations for Dirge are far lower so I'm not bothered by its short comings, they just amuse me, but Crisis Core could have been actually good damn it. The way the game uses the slot roulette thing in Zack's last stand, how the people start to fade out as Zack comes to grips with his own unavoidable death, and how Aerith's clings on because he just can't let her go, "Price of Freedom" playing the whole time... That is hands down one of the most well executed scenes in any... ANYTHING I've ever experienced. The marriage of gameplay and story in that one moment is brilliant. Then Zack's death scene drags on way too long, and that fucking J-pop song comes in and takes the tone out back and shoots it dead. That encapsulates Crisis Core for me, high highs that are just dragged down by awful direction. I'm glad Tabata was nowhere near the remake.

Sorry, I didn't expect to get so worked up about it. I have a lot of hang ups with this dumb game.

 

[Makoeyes987]

The addition of a celebrity likeness was the point of the franchise where I had to come to grips with FF7 being a business property, and kissed the integrity of the anti-corporate through-line in the narrative goodbye

Well, they never did it again, at least.

...And I hope to Minerva they never do.

And thankfully we never saw Barret asking Cloud to grab a Butterfinger bar before they went to go rescue Aerith, since he was craving the sweet, crispy, delicious taste of the best candy bar in Midgar

Guess Cup Noodles gets that unique distinction in Final Fantasy....

 

[oty]

Ody perfectly encaptured it for me. He's like the ending of FFVIIR, except he shows up the whole freaking game.

I have huge gripes with Crisis Core, technically wise and also story wise. Specially story wise. And I'm also glad Tabata isnt in the Remake. Maybe that's why I'm not so mad with FFVIIR. It pretty much fixes everything I loathed in CC.

 

[looneymoon]

Imagine the alternate timeline where Aerith gets Lunafreya'ed

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Odysseus, I 100% agree with you about the way they used the slot roulette thing (which had been in equal parts irritating and amazingly helpful throughout the game) to portray Zack's protracted death - literally dying piece by piece, memory by memory. I knew he was going to die and it still moved me profoundly. I've never been able to replay it.

Crisis Core was the first game in the Compilation that I played and it took me six months to finish because I had never played a game before, except for Mario Kart and Spooky Castle: The Adventures of Kid Mystic with my children. I learnt how to game on Crisis Core. So I'll always be very fond of it.

My second game was FFVII and my third was Chrono Trigger.

 

[Shademp]

Imagine the alternate timeline where Aerith gets Lunafreya'ed

inb4 Aerith DLC gets announced for her trip from the Ancient Temple to the Forgotten City and then the DLC gets cancelled.

 

[looneymoon]

I've had a conspiracy theory going on in my head that the ending of FF7R had stuff re-purposed from the FFXV:Episode Noctis DLC.

I have absolutely no proof of this, other than asking myself "why is Bahamut here?" and running with it. Also I only finished XV about a month ago, so it's fresh on my mind.

 

[Prism]

Well, they never did it again, at least.

...And I hope to Minerva they never do.

And thankfully we never saw Barret asking Cloud to grab a Butterfinger bar before they went to go rescue Aerith, since he was craving the sweet, crispy, delicious taste of the best candy bar in Midgar

Guess Cup Noodles gets that unique distinction in Final Fantasy....

Just wait. For Remake Part III, they’ll partner with Snickers. When Cloud is being puppeted and beating Aerith in the City of the Ancients, Berret will turn to Cloud and shout...

And then proceed to throw him a Snickers bar to snap him out of it.

I enjoyed everything about CC except the major characters. The exceptions to that would be Zack, Cloud, and Lazard. Everyone else pissed me off.

Zack and Cloud are definitely the shining moments of CC, and Lazard certainly is likable. I would add Aerith to that list, but I could understand why someone potentially wouldn’t

When Cloud wields the Buster Sword, it’s pretty touching to think of it as an homage to Zack - a way he lives on. But imagining it as a tribute to Angeal? Hmmm....I’ll pass...

I know crisis core isn't without merit. There are things I like, and I really have tried to learn to like it. It's without a doubt the most beloved compilation entry for a reason. Just... Every time I hear Gackt speak, or Hollander, or any time I hear Angeal go on about SOLDIER HONOR and DREAMSSS, every time I hear the song "why," I just remember why I hate the game so much. Zack's story had so much potential to be interesting, so many hard hitting avenues that could have been explored, but it all gets overshadowed by a bunch of bullshit. Ending at Nibleheim would not fix any of my issues, they are ever present throughout the entire game.

I guess the reason I don't like it is because it was so close to being something great, my expectations for Dirge are far lower so I'm not bothered by its short comings, they just amuse me, but Crisis Core could have been actually good damn it. The way the game uses the slot roulette thing in Zack's last stand, how the people start to fade out as Zack comes to grips with his own unavoidable death, and how Aerith's clings on because he just can't let her go, "Price of Freedom" playing the whole time... That is hands down one of the most well executed scenes in any... ANYTHING I've ever experienced. The marriage of gameplay and story in that one moment is brilliant. Then Zack's death scene drags on way too long, and that fucking J-pop song comes in and takes the tone out back and shoots it dead. That encapsulates Crisis Core for me, high highs that are just dragged down by awful direction. I'm glad Tabata was nowhere near the remake.

Sorry, I didn't expect to get so worked up about it. I have a lot of hang ups with this dumb game.

These are all solid points, Odysseus. It makes me wonder if someone could mod the game to be its perfect state, where the highs aren’t interrupted.

 

[Wol]

Wasn't there a line about Sephiroth being able to return because of
Cloud's memories of him, on the novel OWTS?

Seph needs Cloud, need his hatred and anger, because that is what mantain his presence alive; Cloud's trauma gives him life, which is why Seph keeps teasing Clad with painful flashes of his past.

The traumatic connection between the two is precisely why Seph stalks Clad the entire time.

 

[Rydeen]

Just wait. For Remake Part III, they’ll partner with Snickers. When Cloud is being puppeted and beating Aerith in the City of the Ancients, Berret will turn to Cloud and shout...
View attachment 5992
And then proceed to throw him a Snickers bar to snap him out of it.


Zack and Cloud are definitely the shining moments of CC, and Lazard certainly is likable. I would add Aerith to that list, but I could understand why someone potentially wouldn’t

When Cloud wields the Buster Sword, it’s pretty touching to think of it as an homage to Zack - a way he lives on. But imagining it as a tribute to Angeal? Hmmm....I’ll pass...


These are all solid points, Odysseus. It makes me wonder if someone could mod the game to be its perfect state, where the highs aren’t interrupted.

I don’t like CC Aerith either, she fed into the Pink Jesus thing. Actually I thought the slums were lame in general, forgot about that lol, only played it once, 7 years ago. But yeah, if I ignore the slums and most of the characters I find the game enjoyable.

 

[Prism]

I don’t like CC Aerith either, she fed into the Pink Jesus thing. Actually I thought the slums were lame in general, forgot about that lol, only played it once, 7 years ago. But yeah, if I ignore the slums and most of the characters I find the game enjoyable.

The Pink Jesus syndrome that is present in compilation is a legitimate criticism, very true. And when I think about it, I think I liked the Aerith parts mainly because of how Zack was characterized, not how she was represented. (with some scenes as exception) But they kinda blend together when I think about it. Still, I hear ya.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Pretty sure Aerith was 15 in Crisis Core. Given her age and youth, there wasn't really anything "pink-Jesus" about her. She was just a young, innocent child. So I don't see what's wrong with her exhibiting a more immature, teenage and innocent personality given she was probably at her most juvenile back then.

Same goes for Zack. He was a young, naive teenager back then as well, despite being a SOLDIER. There have to be differences in portrayal to demonstrate growth and change over time. Aerith the 22 year old woman from FFVII, shouldn't have had the same adult personality in Crisis Core, at 15. There should be some innocence and naivety, otherwise what's to show the difference in age and growth other than fashion sense and size?

As for the slums... Well, the locations for Crisis Core were never gonna match the proper potential given the PSP's limitations. It's funny how basic and simple some locations are compared to what we see now. The only Midgar locations that actually translated properly to me were Loveless Avenue and the Shinra Building itself. Which is thanks to being able to do more with less. The grit and grunge of the slums simply can't be properly conveyed with lower hardware. It comes off to simplistic and sterile.

 

[Roundhouse]

Licorice, that is a really interesting introduction to games. What was it like to get into FF7 through Crisis Core? What made you play it in the first place?

 

[Odysseus]

As for the slums... Well, the locations for Crisis Core were never gonna match the proper potential given the PSP's limitations. It's funny how basic and simple some locations are compared to what we see now. The only Midgar locations that actually translated properly to me were Loveless Avenue and the Shinra Building itself. Which is thanks to being able to do more with less. The grit and grunge of the slums simply can't be properly conveyed with lower hardware. It comes off to simplistic and sterile.

The slums probably would have benefitted from just always being shown at night like the upper plate was. I know the whole "its always night in Midgar" thing has been thoroughly debunked, but I think just having it always dark would have helped hide the shortcomings of the psp a lot better, rather than the extraordinarily bland mid-day they went with.

Spoiler

Dark would have gone a long way to hide all those low res background elements, that's for sure.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Yeah, you're right. It probably would have. Unfortunately CC's depiction of the slums were lacking in capturing the uniqueness of the original. It captured other elements effectively but sadly that wasn't one of them.

I loved how Nibelheim looked, at least.