What exactly is the Lifestream?

[Munatik]

With the release of the translations for Lifestream Black and White, I want to ask some questions that have been bugging me about the Lifestream concept.

How is it that people can refuse to meld with the Lifestream based solely on willpower? I understand that Sephiroth and Aerith are special cases because neither of them are fully human. But are they simply that special, or can anyone refuse not to meld with it when they die? If that's so, then what about the Lifestream would make that possible?

Maybe it's like the heavenly gates thing, where the Lifestream is just so inviting that it's hard to resist unifying with it when you die. But you CAN resist it.

Or should maybe I should just STFU and accept the way things are.

 

[Masamune]

Some consciousnesses have a stronger connection to the world of the living, which is how they're able to keep their identity and resist absorption by the main current. The Lifestream novella even says that Sephiroth had to concentrate on his passion for Cloud to survive in there.

I don't think it takes anyone particularly outstanding, because even the dudes from Sector 7 can be found in Junon posthumous. Their curiosity to learn kept them from returning to the Planet.

 

[Tennyo]

Yeah it seems to be very similar to the way the whole thing with fiends works in FFX (hmm I wonder why? XD). Not everyone goes to the Farplane/returns to the Planet, but some don't.

However in FFX I wonder if Seph would have become a fiend with all his hatred. XD

Crap I'm taking this in a whole other direction. XD

 

[Strangelove]

Aerith is special, but probably would disappear too like the other Cetra (maybe sooner, being only half blood Cetra).

Sephiroth obviously couldn't remain just as he was alive, since he had to start getting rid of most of his memories to survive. Sephiroth seems to be a step above, but it would seem anyone could remain, at least in some form, like all the hateful spirits.

 

[Munatik]

Nah, you're cool, Tennyo. I'm hoping for insight wherever it comes from. And you're right, the Lifestream is sounding a bit like the Farplane.

Some consciousnesses have a stronger connection to the world of the living, which is how they're able to keep their identity and resist absorption by the main current. The Lifestream novella even says that Sephiroth had to concentrate on his passion for Cloud to survive in there.

I don't think it takes anyone particularly outstanding, because even the dudes from Sector 7 can be found in Junon posthumous. Their curiosity to learn kept them from returning to the Planet.

This is all true. I guess if there's enough unfinished business, then anyone can stick around.

I understand that this is a fantasy (hence the title), but I still wonder how willpower alone can keep one's consciousness from dissolving. When I die, I'm pretty sure I won't just be able to concentrate or will my mind into continued existence, unless we want to start debating the paranormal. Making a comparison to the real world is silly, but based on that understanding of death, it strikes me that there may a specific quality about the Lifestream (and the Farplane for that matter) that lets people break the rules. If that's something I should just accept for now, then I will, but I think it opens the door for some good theorycraft.

Then again, the idea of death not being the end-all-be-all in many stories comes from a long and diverse religious history, so perhaps it's not worth analyzing beyond that.

 

[Tetsujin]

Yeah it seems to be very similar to the way the whole thing with fiends works in FFX (hmm I wonder why? XD). Not everyone goes to the Farplane/returns to the Planet, but some don't.

However in FFX I wonder if Seph would have become a fiend with all his hatred. XD

Crap I'm taking this in a whole other direction. XD

Seph would've been an unsent imo.

And like Seymour he would've absorbed pyreflies to grow more powerful. >.O

In FFX, fiends are much more common. A lot of people who die cannot accept that fact and become fiends if they're not sent by a summoner. The exception here seem to be the unsent, who cannot accept their fate as well but retain a human form (albeit not made of flesh and blood).

In FFVII it seems it's less common for people to stay in the world of the living and to become ghosts/monsters etc.
The Gi knew how to do the trick though.

 

[Tennyo]

Seph would've been an unsent imo.

And like Seymour he would've absorbed pyreflies to grow more powerful. >.O

Yes but I always attributed this to the fact that Seymour was a Guado. The Guado were the guardians of the Farplane and all that, so maybe they knew some secrets that other peeps did not.

Also Seymour's plans were not exactly the same as Sephiroth's, and I don't think Seymour used intense anger and hatred to keep himself unsent, where as that's all Sephiroth had.

lol I'm too fast for your edit, Tet! XD

In FFX, fiends are much more common. A lot of people who die cannot accept that fact and become fiends if they're not sent by a summoner. The exception here seem to be the unsent, who cannot accept their fate as well but retain a human form (albeit not made of flesh and blood).

In FFVII it seems it's less common for people to stay in the world of the living and to become ghosts/monsters etc.
The Gi knew how to do the trick though.

But the unsent seemed a bit special in a way. They seem to have something other than anger or hate to tie them down. Auron had an unfulfilled duty/promise

Spoiler: X2 Spoiler

Maechen

had his desire for knowledge, but seemed to be quite forgetful about a lot of things as if all the time spent as an unsent was starting to erode his memories.

It is also explained in FFX (by Lulu I think it was) that fiends are people who were angry about their deaths, not just ones who didn't accept it. You needed anger and hatred to become a fiend.

Who has a lot of anger and hatred now?

 

[Nikkolas]

I think it has to do with force of will.
Shuyin had probably even more hatred and despair than anyone else in X and he stayed as an Unsent for 10000 years and didn't become a fiend.

If your will is strong enough you can maintain your mind and human form is how I took it.

 

[Tennyo]

True, true, I had actually forgotten about Shuyin. But then you also must think about how, in addition to his anger and hatred, he had something else: his love for Lenne and his desire to see her/protect her. That may have been what kept him from becoming an all out fiend.

However even still I don't know if becoming a fiend means that you will loose your human forum. Remember how when you go to get Yojimbo in FFX and you encounter Lulu's former summoner? She's still human, and still a summoner, but she's been so changed that I think Lulu even said, "You're just a fiend now, aren't you?" to her, didn't she?

 

[Nikkolas]

The exact line is
"There is no human left in you now, is there?"

Though we did see the spirits of the dead become fiends in the Via Infinito so I think it's basically the same thing.

 

[Alex]

Do you guys think that the Lifestream is wet or sticky and gloopy like glue?

 

[Makoeyes987]

It'd probably be more like plasma, given its ethereal qualities

 

[Alex]

Like, I was really thinking hard about this (as I do sometimes, when my mind is focused on music and food) when you come out of the Lifestream in Mideel or whatever, are you going to be all drippy wet? or will it cling to you like Ghostbustery-esque ectoplasm? Or is it something else entirely? I know it looks like spam but I swear this is me being genuine

 

[Munatik]

I think it has the consistency of aloe vera. But with more minty flavor.

 

[Tennyo]

Nah I always assumed that the Lifestream was more of an apple flavor than anything. XD

 

[Alex]

I thought it would taste of shampoo : <

 

[Channy]

I would kinda think it's of a thick texture that really needs to be squeezed.. like toothpaste.

 

[Frostwave]

*squeezes the Lifestream*

It would taste of lime koolaid.

 

[Channy]

Mm, citrusy. :3

 

[Makoeyes987]

There was a great discussion going on in regards to the mechanics of the Lifestream. Let's not derail it, okay?

Honestly, in regards to its consistency its really more ethereal. It acts only as a definitive liquid when its refined into Mako. In its natural state it's very much like a plasma.

 

[Munatik]

I'll agree with that, Mako. But now I'm wondering what the Mako refining process involves. If we're talking plasma like the state of matter (but minus the extreme heat I suppose), then I'm thinking that it simply requires additional cooling and condensing to turn it into a liquid as you said. Maybe that removal of energy is how the Lifestream loses it's potency as well.

 

[ForceStealer]

One thing I wasn't quite sure about in X was whether one HAD to be sent? What if you weren't angry at your death? What if you accepted it? Would you jsut go the Farplane anyway? That makes the most sense as there simply aren't enough summoners, but they don't really make that clear in the game.

And what do that do after X when there are no more summoners? I guess we're supposed to assume that, without Sin, there's aren't large scale surprise deaths anymore, so people's souls don't have a problem with the ways they are dying.

But this is about FF7:

Aerith is special, but probably would disappear too like the other Cetra (maybe sooner, being only half blood Cetra).

Don't forget though, she's not the only Cetra to stick around. There were several Cetra ghosts in the Temple of the Ancients. ...And weird lookin' things they were too...
I don't quite know why Zack remains undiffused. I'm sure he's got the willpower and all, but why? Just to stay with her, I guess?

It was liquid in Mideel, Mako, and it hadn't been refined into Mako. In fact, the events in Mideel, Northern Cave, and reports of the Lifestream breaking through the surface in the ocean kind of suggest it has the properties of magma/lava. After all, with the Lifestream beneath the surface, the Planet doesn't seem to have much space for a mantle, and I don't remember any mentions of any volcanoes.
But yeah, it also seems to be able to be the ethereal tendrils its frequently shown as. So who knows.

I never thought about that magma thing before...

 

[Tennyo]

In FFX people who accept their deaths go straight to the Farplane. Such was the case with Tidus' mother who died because she couldn't handle the loss of her husband.

Also maybe with no Sin there is less death, and maybe they now just have to deal with fiends. Or maybe Summoners can still send people even without the aeons (even though it doesn't seem like any of them do lol).

 

[Tetsujin]

Honestly, in regards to its consistency its really more ethereal. It acts only as a definitive liquid when its refined into Mako. In its natural state it's very much like a plasma.

What about Mideel? It seemed very liquid there as well.

Or do you think this could be because it mixed with the water?

 

[Max Payne]

Hm, I always figured the lifestream was like a sort of gas, that could be refined into liquid.