When did Shinra discover mako energy?

I'm pretty sure the mention of one monster is a translation error, since Japanese doesn't usually have plurals. We saw a number of monsters burst out of the Northern Crater, and it stands to reason that Shinra would defend against any that attack. Maybe Sapphire Weapon has been the only one attacked - but I am certain that when Barret says, "Some huge monster called Weapon's been on a rampage," what it should say is, "Some huge monsters called The Weapons have been on a rampage...."

One of the more annoying continuity errors in the Compilation is this:

Hojo
"Weapon..."
"Then it really does exist... I didn't believe in it."

Rufus
"What does this mean?"

(Hojo turns to face him)

Hojo
"...Weapon. Monsters created by the Planet."
"It appears when the Planet is in danger, reducing everything to
nothingness."
"That's what was stated in Professor Gast's report."

Rufus
"I never saw that report... Where is it?"

(Hojo searches a bit and holds up something in his hand.)

Hojo
"Here, right here."

(The eye winks again.)

Rufus
"You keep a lot of things to yourself."

How could Hojo not know Weapon existed when Jade Weapon has been going round the Planet hunting for Turks since Before Crisis? No - whoever wrote BC completely forgot or overlooked the fact that in OG game canon, Hojo thinks Weapons are a myth and Rufus never even seems to have heard of them.
 
whoever wrote BC completely forgot or overlooked the fact that in OG game canon, Hojo thinks Weapons are a myth and Rufus never even seems to have heard of them.
Not to mention that stories of Weapon(s) have made the rounds to, at least, anti-Shinra movements by the time of Crisis Core.

When Zack speaks to an anti-Shinra NPC about a recent outbreak of monsters:

ZALOXMi.png



isiO78K.png



RJZJOPb.png



Nzxb8q5.png



wfOyakV.png



BlOTrLw.png



CB9oKtX.png
 
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The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
I'm not sure how you're getting that Emerald (which spends all its time underwater) was the one that sank a cargo plane in the air. It does camp outside its wreck.

It could have been any of them, sure. Diamond seemingly traveled the ocean as easily as Emerald or Sapphire, and then could also fly like Ultima.

Clem said:
Ultima Weapon goes to Mideel during a Lifestreamquake. I figured it was drawn by the disturbance in the Lifestream.
Whatever its reason for showing up, it attacks.

Clem said:
Afterwards, it doesn't leave the crater outside Junon (likely another wound in the planet) ...
A crater it probably made since that wasn't there prior to the Weapons awakening.

Clem said:
He only mentions one monster ...
As Lic mentioned, that's just how those lines were (poorly) translated since Japanese usually doesn't differentiate the plural and singular in as obvious a way as English. So you just get "Weapon" being used in the English script when "a Weapon" or "the Weapons" is what was needed for clarity.

Think about all the weird sentence constructions in the English script that refer to the Weapons. Gast and Ifalna's conversation makes it sound like there's only one, as does Rufus and Hojo's conversation at the Northern Crater, in addition to various NPC lines.

Is it really any surprise the same mistake would be made here?

Clem said:
... mentions that Rufus is fighting it, but nothing really to indicate that he's going out of his way to protect other places.

I'll grant you that Barret's line alone isn't explicit, but an NPC in Kalm mentions that Rufus is gathering all of Shin-Ra's greatest artillery in Midgar to stop the Weapons. Ultimania text also makes it clear that Rufus was protecting the world, not just Shin-Ra.

The Ultimania Omega even remarks that the man who said he would rule the world through fear has Ironically taken up the role of defending the world from dread.

Clem said:
In general, the weapons seem to leave people alone unless they pick a fight with them or start actively hurting the Planet.
In direct contradiction of Barret's comments and multiple Ultimanias that say the creatures were targeting human settlements?
 

Clement Rage

Pro Adventurer
I'm not sure how you're getting that Emerald (which spends all its time underwater) was the one that sank a cargo plane in the air. It does camp outside its wreck.

It could have been any of them, sure. Diamond seemingly traveled the ocean as easily as Emerald or Sapphire, and then could also fly like Ultima.

Clem said:
Ultima Weapon goes to Mideel during a Lifestreamquake. I figured it was drawn by the disturbance in the Lifestream.
Whatever its reason for showing up, it attacks.


A crater it probably made since that wasn't there prior to the Weapons awakening.


As Lic mentioned, that's just how those lines were (poorly) translated since Japanese usually doesn't differentiate the plural and singular in as obvious a way as English. So you just get "Weapon" being used in the English script when "a Weapon" or "the Weapons" is what was needed for clarity.

Think about all the weird sentence constructions in the English script that refer to the Weapons. Gast and Ifalna's conversation makes it sound like there's only one, as does Rufus and Hojo's conversation at the Northern Crater, in addition to various NPC lines.

Is it really any surprise the same mistake would be made here?

Clem said:
... mentions that Rufus is fighting it, but nothing really to indicate that he's going out of his way to protect other places.

I'll grant you that Barret's line alone isn't explicit, but an NPC in Kalm mentions that Rufus is gathering all of Shin-Ra's greatest artillery in Midgar to stop the Weapons. Ultimania text also makes it clear that Rufus was protecting the world, not just Shin-Ra.

The Ultimania Omega even remarks that the man who said he would rule the world through fear has Ironically taken up the role of defending the world from dread.

Clem said:
In general, the weapons seem to leave people alone unless they pick a fight with them or start actively hurting the Planet.
In direct contradiction of Barret's comments and multiple Ultimanias that say the creatures were targeting human settlements?

Where's the contradiction? 'Tearing shit up' isn't the most precise phrase. Gathering all the best artillery in the world in Midgar doesn't disprove anything I've said at all. Where does any of that dialogue indicate Shinra is protecting places other than their strongholds?

Even if they wanted to, they couldn't. Sister Ray isn't all that easy to move, and it seems to be the only thing they have that can do real damage to them.

I'm basing this on the behaviour of the weapons as demonstrated in the game itself. Diamond does nothing, and is drawn out when Shinra starts majorly drawing on Mako to power their cannon. The party fights it, it plays along for a while, and then gets distracted again when they're about to fire the cannon -drawing more Mako.

Ultima's sole unprovoked attack comes just before a Lifestreamquake, is very brief, and does no damage to the town, and unless you're powerlevelling it's a stretch to say AVALANCHE fought it off so much as managed to avoid dying. If it was a direct goal to destroy settlements, it would have kept going instead of flown away.

After that, it doesn't attack anywhere unless provoked.

A crater it probably made since that wasn't there prior to the Weapons awakening.

Maybe why it's said to be 'tearing shit up', but there was never a human settlement there, so that doesn't say much. Maybe it's secretly into landscaping. Or Shinra tried to hit it and missed.

I'll give you the translation error with Barret, but as for Gast and Hojo, these Weapons have never been used, no one knows much about them rather than that they exist, I doubt anyone had the opportunity to count them. Could go either way, it doesn't really matter.

A giant monster attack on a town would be big news, if there was meant to be bunch of them on random towns offscreen NPCs would be talking about it. Most of the Weapon dialogue happens in Junon, and Heidegger and Rufus' conversation seems to indicate that they have had to deal with attacks in Junon before.

I've read no Ultimanias so I can't really talk about them, but in general I would take the demonstrated behaviour in game over books published later.

When does Diamond fly?
 

ForceStealer

Double Growth
I thought Holy was the Lifestream doing it's thing? Sephiroth was stopping it. Then he gets killed.

And then er....Red talks about Holy having the opposite effect or something and Aerith intervenes to fix it.

Actually it has just occured to me that I have no fucking clue what actually happened at the end of FFVII :monster:

People did respond to this but just to be a bit more clear. Holy is just a spell like any other. A really freakin powerful spell, to be sure, but technically no different than a Fire spell. Although instead of picking a particular target, I guess you hand the spell over to the Planet's judgement. "Destroy everything harmful."

The Lifestream coming out to actually stop/destroy Meteor was Aerith's own personal doing.

When I was young, between Meteor breaking through and Red's "having the opposite effect" line, I actually interpreted that Holy was preventing Meteor from slamming into the Planet, but it was going to allow it to destroy Midgar first. Now I guess it's simply that it was only released too late.

@Tres: I, too, never really subscribed to the idea that humanity had been wiped out, but I never quite put that logic bow you put it on it. I like it. (About Aerith "physically" interfering with Meteor and likely would have done so to defy Holy as well.)


As for the craters near Ultima and Emerald's spawn points, I always figured that they struck places violently after shooting out of the crater. But really it's pretty save to assume that there were more human settlements than are actually IN the game. I would say it's a safe assumption even without the Compilation, but places like Banora kind of confirm that.

Whenever Shinra happens to draw on an excessive amount of Mako, that certainly attracts the Weapons (Cloud's "It senses murder" line), but I definitely had the impression that they were "tearin' shit up" all on their own.

Also, Diamond flies after emerging from the crater. See 0:53
 
When does Diamond fly?
Only for very few frames (25 frames to be exact) in the FMV when the Weapons rise from the Northern Crater.

Diamond:
J4MlXE5.png



Emerald:
mqGCKqh.png



Ruby:
7pVoHe2.png



The argument could be made that Diamond, Emerald and Ruby were being propelled by the energy ejections from the Northern Crater. Either way we do not know if they are capable of flight on their own. Sapphire Weapon most certainly flies on its own at the start of the FMV.


*Ninja'd by Force
 

Wolf_

Pro Adventurer
Watching that FMV has annoyed me about sizing now. In the video, ultimate weapon is about 300 foot tall, but when you fight it, it's about 30. I hope they make their fights like fighting Titan in FFXV
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
Clem, I don't know what else to say if explicit dialogue from the game and the official guidebooks -- as well as blatant visual depictions within the game itself -- are insufficient for you regarding the Weapons' activities and capabilities, as well as what Rufus was doing about it all.

I will say you have a very mistaken, to be frank, view of creatures in this game that exist solely to carry out a specific task (i.e. to destroy) as lazy "gentle giants" -- like some Final Fantasy version of bull mastiffs. =P

But we'll leave it there until the remake comes out if you want. I fully expect we'll see and hear about more of the Weapons' behavior there.
 
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The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
Okay, I failed to leave it there. In the Japanese script, "tearin' shit up" is "attacking the world": 世界を襲い始めた.

Barret then immediately adds that Rufus is fighting them, and commends him for having spirit. Which he wouldn't be doing if Rufus were abandoning the rest of the world, and only defending his personal interests -- 'cause it's Barret, let's be real. Barret also wouldn't care enough to remark about the Weapons as a problem as soon as Tifa wakes up (he says they're on a rampage for goodness' sake) if they weren't targeting people or were only targeting Shin-Ra. Again, let's keep it real here.

The game literally couldn't get more clear (even without the Ultimanias) without talking to us like a Wikipedia article.
 

ForceStealer

Double Growth
Hahaha, see, sometimes I have to commend FF7's Sony translators. They screwed the pooch early and often, but "tearin shit up" is a fantastic localized departure from "attacking the world." Haha
 

Clement Rage

Pro Adventurer
The problem I'm having with your argument is that it involves ignoring almost everything we see the weapons do in the game, and how the characters react to them.

We see Ultima get drawn to Mideel, coinciding with a massive movement of Lifestream/Mako. We see Diamond get drawn in coinciding with a large mako drawing project in Midgar, and then again when the start drawing heavily on the reactors in preparation to fire. Sapphire is the odd one out, but Tifa was in a coma for the previous days, we don't see what Shinra has been up to in the meantime. Thereafter, the surviving weapons do nothing unless the player picks a fight with them.

It's made pretty clear through the game that all Shinra have to deal with Weapon is Sister Ray. Consider the attack of Diamond Weapon. When they learn about it, the party (including Reeve, who would know) react as though the only thing that can stop it is Sister Ray. When they learn that that isn't ready, their plan B is to protect Midgar themselves. If Shinra had anything else, if they had any way to protect Midgar otherwise, why would Reeve not tell them they didn't need to worry, that they've fended off attacks before?
We see Scarlet's anti-Weapon artillery, and it isn't very impressive.

If this wasn't something new, why has Barret not been worried about Marlene's safety before now, if Midgar and towns across the world were constantly being battered with Weapon Attacks? Why would Reeve feel the need to announce this attack and not any of the earlier ones? How could Rufus defend anywhere that didn't have Sister Ray, when his gameplans to deal with Weapon all rely on it? In the attack on Junon, they lead with the cannon, and use 'regular firepower in the meantime' until they can fire again, implying they don't expect anything else to work.

Your Kalm NPC dialogue seems like just a reference to moving Sister Ray. No NPCs anywhere other than Junon reference witnessing or being a victim of a Weapon Attack, while nearly everyone in Junon does.

Against all this, you have one line from a man in prison for the last seven days, which isn't clear about what attacks he's referring to.

I will say you have a very mistaken, to be frank, view of creatures in this game that exist solely to carry out a specific task (i.e. to destroy) as lazy "gentle giants"

Not at all. I never said they were sparing human lives out of concern, just indifference. Their goal is to destroy threats to the Planet, and random towns don't seem to qualify. Their appearances consistently follow heavy movements of Mako, not random towns, otherwise any place that doesn't have Sister Ray protecting it would be easy prey. None of the characters that have hometowns express any concern that they might be attacked by Weapon. We see no damaged towns from Weapon attacks, and nobody even comments about any. Nearly all the weapons could squash any town they chose. Any big battle to protect, say, Gongaga, would be big news in the town, people would be talking about it, but we get nothing.
 

ForceStealer

Double Growth
We see Ultima get drawn to Mideel, coinciding with a massive movement of Lifestream/Mako.

I always thought that the Lifestream was reacting to Weapon, not the other way around.

Their goal is to destroy threats to the Planet, and random towns don't seem to qualify.

Except that Hojo says (emphasis added)
Hojo said:
...Weapon. Monsters created by the Planet.
It appears when the Planet is in danger, reducing everything to nothingness.
That's what was stated in Professor Gast's report.
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
I hope it doesn't seem like I'm ignoring your last post, Clem. I just don't know what else much can be said since it's blatant to me what we're dealing with in the Weapons and Rufus's response to them, and an alternate perspective seems to be as blatant to you.

I'll just try to keep this short and respond to only the things that won't involve either of us repeating ourselves.
It's made pretty clear through the game that all Shinra have to deal with Weapon is Sister Ray. Consider the attack of Diamond Weapon. When they learn about it, the party (including Reeve, who would know) react as though the only thing that can stop it is Sister Ray. When they learn that that isn't ready, their plan B is to protect Midgar themselves. If Shinra had anything else, if they had any way to protect Midgar otherwise, why would Reeve not tell them they didn't need to worry, that they've fended off attacks before?
We see Scarlet's anti-Weapon artillery, and it isn't very impressive.
Are you referring to the Proud Clod? Because that alone shows us that Shin-Ra had more than just the Sister Ray. They had (at the very least) this weapon that they had built specifically for fighting the Weapons. Which is another indication to us that Rufus had intentions of dealing with them.

Clem said:
If this wasn't something new, why has Barret not been worried about Marlene's safety before now, if Midgar and towns across the world were constantly being battered with Weapon Attacks?

What's to say he hadn't been? As you said, with Tifa in a coma for a week, we don't see what had been going on. He very clearly regards the Weapons as a problem, though, bringing them up to Tifa within moments of her waking up.

Except that Hojo says (emphasis added)
Hojo said:
...Weapon. Monsters created by the Planet.
It appears when the Planet is in danger, reducing everything to nothingness.
That's what was stated in Professor Gast's report.
Just want to confirm that the "reducing everything to nothingness" bit is what he says in the Japanese script here as well: すべてを無にする.
 

Clement Rage

Pro Adventurer
Are you referring to the Proud Clod? Because that alone shows us that Shin-Ra had more than just the Sister Ray. They had (at the very least) this weapon that they had built specifically for fighting the Weapons. Which is another indication to us that Rufus had intentions of dealing with them.

They have other stuff, but only Sister Ray is shown to be effective. The entire town of Junon unloads everything they have on Sapphire Weapon to no great effect. Of course Rufus isn't ignoring the giant monsters, but he can barely defend his own strongholds, I doubt he could easily defens anywhere else.

What's to say he hadn't been? As you said, with Tifa in a coma for a week, we don't see what had been going on. He very clearly regards the Weapons as a problem, though, bringing them up to Tifa within moments of her waking up.

Um, yeah? Why shouldn't he?

My point is that the conversation that happens when Diamond Weapon attacks would have happened a whole lot sooner if Weapon attacks had been an ongoing thing. I mean this one (paraphrased, of course)

Reeve: WEAPON is attacking midgar!

Barret: 7^%"! What about Marlene?

Reeve: Marlene is safe.

The very fact that Reeve brings it up indicates that this is a new development. And Cloud judges that AVALANCHE needs to step in if Sister Ray isn't ready. He could be wrong, but Reeve would surely know if Shinra had other ways to fend off WEAPON attacks, and he doesn't contradict him.

Clement Rage wrote:
We see Ultima get drawn to Mideel, coinciding with a massive movement of Lifestream/Mako.
I always thought that the Lifestream was reacting to Weapon, not the other way around.
Possible, but why?
Clement Rage wrote:
Their goal is to destroy threats to the Planet, and random towns don't seem to qualify.
Except that Hojo says (emphasis added)
Hojo wrote:
...Weapon. Monsters created by the Planet.
It appears when the Planet is in danger, reducing everything to nothingness.
That's what was stated in Professor Gast's report.

That there is evidence, but it's also a one line summary of a report written by Gast, which he got from Ifalna, which she got either from the Planet or Cetra legends. Taken literally, it doesn't make much sense as then the Planet's Weapons for self defense then do more damage to the Planet than the threat itself (it needs the cycle of souls to continue, right? Why reduce everything to nothingness?)

You are hanging a lot on Barret's (not definitive) comments , but you're ignoring what the weapons are shown to do once released. After Mideel, Ultima doesn't do anything unless you pick a fight with it, and neither do any of the others, with the sole exception being drawing heavily on Mako, ie. harming the Planet.
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
They have other stuff, but only Sister Ray is shown to be effective. The entire town of Junon unloads everything they have on Sapphire Weapon to no great effect. Of course Rufus isn't ignoring the giant monsters, but he can barely defend his own strongholds, I doubt he could easily defens anywhere else.
That would then be where he showed the guts Barret applauded him for, wouldn't it? =P

That and the fact that Barret, again, wouldn't be begrudgingly giving the man kudos unless he had witnessed him defending more than just his own interests (I mentioned this before and you didn't address it).

Clem said:
Um, yeah? Why shouldn't he?

Because -- again, like I said before --

Weapons not attacking people = no problem to Barret
Weapons only attacking Shin-Ra = roflwank for Barret

Clem said:
My point is that the conversation that happens when Diamond Weapon attacks would have happened a whole lot sooner if Weapon attacks had been an ongoing thing. I mean this one (paraphrased, of course)
Reeve: WEAPON is attacking midgar!

Barret: 7^%"! What about Marlene?

Reeve: Marlene is safe.

The very fact that Reeve brings it up indicates that this is a new development.

Not ... really? The fact that Reeve brings it up indicates that it is happening at that moment and nothing more.

As for Barret asking about Marlene, he's going to do that whether this is the first time he's thought she was in danger of a Weapon attack or the 12th time. And this could as easily still be the first time even with the Weapons on a rampage prior to this. We're supposed to think the world is a pretty decent size after all.

And you might as well be suggesting that since Barret didn't know Marlene wasn't in Midgar at this point that he hadn't asked about her at all in the preceding week(s) -- even while he was Rufus's "guest" -- despite knowing that she was in Shin-Ra's custody. Do you think he hadn't asked even once?

If not, then why wouldn't he ask about her well being again now?
 

Clement Rage

Pro Adventurer
That would then be where he showed the guts Barret applauded him for, wouldn't it?

Barret's in prison. The only news he's getting is the view from his window and whatever Shinra tells him, which he's smart enough not to trust. Being present for previous Weapon attacks on Junon would justify everything he says in that scene. Junon is a town as well as a Shinra stronghold, and it's also the town he's currently in. It would be very strange if he didn't think that giant monster attacks were newsworthy.

That and the fact that Barret, again, wouldn't be begrudgingly giving the man kudos unless he had witnessed him defending more than just his own interests (I mentioned this before and you didn't address it).

Why not? It's courageous to attempt to fight these things at all. He says he's brave, not virtuous.

Not ... really? The fact that Reeve brings it up indicates that it is happening at that moment and nothing more.

Would it be relevant to them if Shinra had already fended off similar attacks? Why would they decide to intervene specifically this time and not any of the other prior attempts, if there were any?

As for Barret asking about Marlene, he's going to do that whether this is the first time he's thought she was in danger of a Weapon attack or the 12th time

If Reeve answered the first time, Barret would know Marlene was not in Midgar the rest of the times, he would react a little differently.

And you might as well be suggesting that since Barret didn't know Marlene wasn't in Midgar at this point that he hadn't asked about her at all in the preceding week(s) -- even while he was Rufus's "guest" -- despite knowing that she was in Shin-Ra's custody. Do you think he hadn't asked even once?

Different situation. They wouldn't answer him, Reeve only does to reassure him about what he thought was a direct threat to her.

Like I've said, the fact that the unprovoked Weapon attacks are all accompanied by large movements of Mako seems relevant.
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
I think there's a bit of an inconsistency in your overall approach here. You say that "the unprovoked Weapon attacks are all accompanied by large movements of Mako." Putting aside that this isn't accurate (Sapphire's attack), you're making this assertion in the same post where you say "Being present for previous Weapon attacks on Junon would justify everything he [Barret] says in that scene."

Either the Weapons are attacking regardless of large movements of mako (e.g. multiple attacks on Junon that Barret has been able to observe) or they aren't. Which are you advocating?

Now, you may respond to this with an observation that Junon has an undersea reactor right off the coast, but I'll point out that

a) the town isn't the reactor
b) normal operations of the reactor wouldn't constitute any particularly large movement out of the ordinary
c) if the reactor's normal operations were enough to draw in the Weapons because of the mako being used, then why in this same discussion are you emphasizing that Diamond's attack on Midgar seems to be the first time that city came under attack -- despite Midgar's normal operations unquestionably using way more mako than Junon?

Does Junon's normal operations demand multiple Weapon attacks but Midgar's doesn't demand even one? That wouldn't make sense.

I really feel like you're not picking a consistent position on this.
That and the fact that Barret, again, wouldn't be begrudgingly giving the man kudos unless he had witnessed him defending more than just his own interests (I mentioned this before and you didn't address it).

Why not? It's courageous to attempt to fight these things at all. He says he's brave, not virtuous.
I guess I just don't believe Barret would consider necessary self defense -- especially that lacking in virtuous intent to protect someone else -- as bravery. This is a man who has dedicated his life to fighting for others after all.

But we can agree to disagree on this point.

Clem said:
Would it be relevant to them if Shinra had already fended off similar attacks? Why would they decide to intervene specifically this time and not any of the other prior attempts, if there were any?
I would expect any Weapon attack would seem relevant to them, honestly, but especially one that might interrupt Shin-Ra's attempt to make Sephiroth vulnerable (and could also kill untold civilians). More to the point, though, it's relevant to Reeve, who is in Midgar at the time, is concerned about its people and is the one frantically relaying the news.

Clem said:
As for Barret asking about Marlene, he's going to do that whether this is the first time he's thought she was in danger of a Weapon attack or the 12th time

If Reeve answered the first time, Barret would know Marlene was not in Midgar the rest of the times, he would react a little differently.
That's my point. No matter how many times Midgar could have been attacked up to this point, Barret would still be asking about Marlene since he doesn't know she's not there.
 

Clement Rage

Pro Adventurer
Putting aside that this isn't accurate (Sapphire's attack),

We don't see the leadup to that one.

Good point about the reactor, but the cannon seems to be a bit of a gas guzzler, so what I'm thinking is a kind of vicious cycle.

Shinra: Giant monsters are loose! Get the cannon ready!

Weapon: Oh? An unusual movement of Mako, better investigate.

Shinra: Weapon is attacking! Fire the cannon!

Weapon: Ow! That hurt. But they used even more Mako, so I need to come back and deal with this.

Shinra: Weapon is back! Fire the cannon!

And so on.

I would expect any Weapon attack would seem relevant to them, honestly, but especially one that might interrupt Shin-Ra's attempt to make Sephiroth vulnerable (and could also kill untold civilians). More to the point, though, it's relevant to Reeve, who is in Midgar at the time, is concerned about its people and is the one frantically relaying the news.

He would also be aware of whether Shinra had fended off previous attacks, though, so there'd be less of a sense of 'the cannon isn't working? You guys are the next line of defense!'

That's my point. No matter how many times Midgar could have been attacked up to this point, Barret would still be asking about Marlene since he doesn't know she's not there.

But if those specific circumstances had arisen before, Reeve would probably have answered him.
 
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