ForceStealer
Double Growth
http://www.usgamer.net/articles/where-final-fantasy-went-wrong-and-how-square-enix-is-righting-it
This is a really interesting article, I thought.
This is a really interesting article, I thought.
"Where FF Went Wrong and how SE is righting it"
- Thread starter ForceStealer
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ForceStealer
Double Growth
Yeah. Yoshida's always been awesome and astute, but it's especially nice to hear Kitase talking sense. It still kinda sounded like Toriyama's missing the boat, but two outta three ain't bad.
It will be interesting to see if XV still has the vestigial bad development habits because of the length of it's development, if it's reaped the benefits of the improvements, or if Nomura will simply do his thing. Because, let's face it, for all the flak the guy takes, the games that have been actually his responsibility have been pretty good. Gameplay-wise, at least.
And I like that last paragraph, it was a good point. As much as FF may have flagged, it's still in a better position then most of it's 80s contemporaries. How many other originally-8bit series still command blockbuster potential? Mario, Zelda, Metal Gear, and Final Fantasy are the only ones I can come up with. Capcom's basically abandoned Mega Man. Others are still around (Metroid, Castlevania...), but don't sell quite like those 4 are capable of.
It will be interesting to see if XV still has the vestigial bad development habits because of the length of it's development, if it's reaped the benefits of the improvements, or if Nomura will simply do his thing. Because, let's face it, for all the flak the guy takes, the games that have been actually his responsibility have been pretty good. Gameplay-wise, at least.
And I like that last paragraph, it was a good point. As much as FF may have flagged, it's still in a better position then most of it's 80s contemporaries. How many other originally-8bit series still command blockbuster potential? Mario, Zelda, Metal Gear, and Final Fantasy are the only ones I can come up with. Capcom's basically abandoned Mega Man. Others are still around (Metroid, Castlevania...), but don't sell quite like those 4 are capable of.
Obsidian Fire
Ahk Morn!
- AKA
- The Engineer
Meh... as long as they continue to focus on action-style gameplay I'm not going to be that interested. I've got plenty of good action games that are better (Skyrim being the big one, but several others too) but no one does good looking turn-based anymore for consoles/PC. If they remade VII as action based, I'd watch the cut-scenes on YouTube and play the original on an emulator.
TBH, the entire reason I liked FF gameplay in the first place is because I'm not good at games that require a good sense of timing/precission in order to do well at them.
TBH, the entire reason I liked FF gameplay in the first place is because I'm not good at games that require a good sense of timing/precission in order to do well at them.
ForceStealer
Double Growth
Eh, I expect that after XV will be a more traditional battle system. With Yoshida's increasing influence, a bit of a JRPG resurgence, and their general desire to mix things up with each entry, I just see it going that way. Probably not Dragon Quest traditional, but more traditional.
Hopefully this doesn't turn into a "how they should remake FF7" thread, but I don't think they'd make that go full action either. Maybe they'd tweak things, maybe make it a bit more action-y. But hopefully they'd have the sense to leave it mostly intact.
Sometimes revisiting an old system can have pretty solid results - like what FFX did in going back to fully turn-based.
Hopefully this doesn't turn into a "how they should remake FF7" thread, but I don't think they'd make that go full action either. Maybe they'd tweak things, maybe make it a bit more action-y. But hopefully they'd have the sense to leave it mostly intact.
Sometimes revisiting an old system can have pretty solid results - like what FFX did in going back to fully turn-based.
Lex
Administrator
I'm expecting something traditional after XV. XV gets a by because it was originally supposed to be completely peripheral to the series and everyone knows that, but if XVI doesn't have any series traditional elements I think I'm actually just going to go right off the series as a whole, which is something I never thought would happen.
I'm not talking about castles and royalty and all that euro medieval crap that every game and its sister has done since the beginning of time, I don't give a shit about the setting. I want a more traditional FF feel to the game. I want the IX of the PS3/PS4 generation, I want recurring motifs, I want a deep compelling story with twists and music kick-ins that make me want to cry. I want FF back.
I'm not talking about castles and royalty and all that euro medieval crap that every game and its sister has done since the beginning of time, I don't give a shit about the setting. I want a more traditional FF feel to the game. I want the IX of the PS3/PS4 generation, I want recurring motifs, I want a deep compelling story with twists and music kick-ins that make me want to cry. I want FF back.
ForceStealer
Double Growth
Ironically, IX was originally supposed to be something completely peripheral 
Dionysus
Aglaophotis
This actually gave me hope that I will genuinely love a new Final Fantasy, someday. For years, I pondered some of these men's train of thought on the series and production. Reading some of these statements of humility really make me think the series will head in a more classic direction. Classic does not necessarily mean backward.
The truly redefining, universally acclaimed, and yet most obvious adaptation to current times is probably the one we can't see coming.
I'm just tired of MMO's, though. They're all the same, I've played many... I just want a story I can really get immersed in. The nonstop loot and experience grind just leaves me feeling empty, now. Lol
The truly redefining, universally acclaimed, and yet most obvious adaptation to current times is probably the one we can't see coming.
I'm just tired of MMO's, though. They're all the same, I've played many... I just want a story I can really get immersed in. The nonstop loot and experience grind just leaves me feeling empty, now. Lol
Joker
We have come to terms
- AKA
- Godot
I remember reading years ago that they'd officially stated that they would never create another turn-based game. I'm about to read the article above, so that stance might have changed, but if not, I'm going to be mightily disappointed, because I'm with you - when I want to play an action game, I go to my Ninja Gaiden and my Devil May Cry (well...not anymore with that one, I guess) and my Mass Effect (which has fantastic action, even though it's not a proper action game, while also keeping me invested in the story, hooray) and so on. When I play an RPG, damn it I want turn-based, or at least some bizarre hybrid like they did with Chrono Cross (which had an amazing battle system!). I really enjoyed FFXII, but that was because it was a damn fun game to begin with and I just sort of accepted/got used to the battle system, whereas XIII just wasn't very good, imo, in large part because the story was predictable - which is a hallmark of action games - and the battle system wasn't very much fun, being as it was a more action-y version of the gameplay in Xenosaga II.
FFX will always be my gold standard when it comes to battle systems, but the classic games (except II...we don't talk about FFII), VII, and again, Chrono Cross, are all great examples of what we know SE can do, because they've already done it.
I'm gonna go take a gander at the article now and edit in my thoughts.
Ed: Okay, done.
First off, I really like a lot of what's being said here, especially where they admit that they've been to obsessed with graphical quality for years. That's good.
What's bad is the idea that in trying to create a new mythos/universe for a game, they felt that "the approach we took may have been too difficult for players to understand in one game". There's nothing I hate more than the implication that I'm too stupid to understand something. While I realize that it may not have been what he intended by saying that, the article does mention earlier a tendency in Japanese culture to 'throw one's peers under the bus'. Harrumph.
I also don't like this whole "people liked it because nostalgia" thing. No. Speaking for myself, it's not nostalgia IT'S MY FAVORITE DAMN GENRE C'MON. Games like that are what I WANT people to make. The Tales games are about as close to an action-based combat system that I want to go, and even those are fairly strategic as far as ability choices and positioning go and the like. But this more actiony-RPG thing is old and I'm really tired of it. It certainly doesn't belong in a series that is based on the tried and true basic turn-based system that we know and love.
I do like that they mention that FFVI, FFVII, and Chrono Trigger are basically universally loved. What I guess I just don't understand is why they would want to deviate so much from the winning formula in the first place. When I play a Final Fantasy game, "tradition" is what I want; I want a JRPG. Then again, I always want JRPGs, so maybe I'm just griping about how few of them have been made in the past several years. Lost Odyssey and Star Ocean are both what I would classify as JRPGs, and those both did fairly well and are FUN GAMES. Make more things like that please! No really please.
Or even a new Valkyrie Profile...preferably one as good as the first one.
I guess time will tell.
Ed 2: Regarding graphics, let me just say that one of the bestselling games of all time, and one of SE's most successful games, featured weird chibi-like lego people. I think that some graphical quality can be sacrificed without people not loving the game, guys. And that means no more wasting six months on a tech trailer of a game you're not even making that comes to, and I cannot emphasize this enough, 90 seconds in length.
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ForceStealer
Double Growth
I've heard them talk about that before, but it still puzzles me. How could that have taken 6 months? I know that I'm not a 3D graphic or motion artist or anything, but that just doesn't seem...possible to have spent that long on the scene.
Hell the scene is after the credits in Crisis Core and I have a VERY hard time believing that that one after credit scene took 1/6 of the game's total development time.
Hell the scene is after the credits in Crisis Core and I have a VERY hard time believing that that one after credit scene took 1/6 of the game's total development time.
The Twilight Mexican
Ex-SeeD-ingly good
- AKA
- TresDias
It wasn't quite the same scene. It was the lead up to it, but your point still stands.
Ite
Save your valediction (she/her)
- AKA
- Ite
If Square Enix is really listening now, I want to tell them this.
Dear You Guys
You misunderstand the criteria by which we judge a new FF game. We bought the game either because we liked the last one or our friends did. I'll give you an example: FF7 was almost universally loved, so in 1998 we all bought FF8. About half of us liked that one, because you played with the formula a bit, concentrating more on sci-fi elements and realistic psychodrama, and also made significant changes to the battle system. You can be sure, however, that the people who don't like FF8 were almost guaranteed to like FF9, because that game included elements people thought FF8 was sorely lacking. Anyway, that fandom divide ended when FF10 came out, because we all bought it, because back then the only thing you guys were trying to do was MAKE THE LATEST FINAL FANTASY GAME. We KNOW you guys experiment with each title -- we LIKE that. We also like playing the kind of game we like, and if we like FF, we wanna play FF no matter what Call of Duty looks like.
So don't concern yourselves with keeping up with the latest trends on other franchises, or having the coolest new toys in your game. Just look at the last couple of FF games. Read the reviews. See what their strengths and weaknesses were. Find the common elements of the last few games that people really liked, or people really hated, and just make the next one better. That's all you have to do. You won't please everyone with every title, but you'll keep them coming back for more.
Dear You Guys
You misunderstand the criteria by which we judge a new FF game. We bought the game either because we liked the last one or our friends did. I'll give you an example: FF7 was almost universally loved, so in 1998 we all bought FF8. About half of us liked that one, because you played with the formula a bit, concentrating more on sci-fi elements and realistic psychodrama, and also made significant changes to the battle system. You can be sure, however, that the people who don't like FF8 were almost guaranteed to like FF9, because that game included elements people thought FF8 was sorely lacking. Anyway, that fandom divide ended when FF10 came out, because we all bought it, because back then the only thing you guys were trying to do was MAKE THE LATEST FINAL FANTASY GAME. We KNOW you guys experiment with each title -- we LIKE that. We also like playing the kind of game we like, and if we like FF, we wanna play FF no matter what Call of Duty looks like.
So don't concern yourselves with keeping up with the latest trends on other franchises, or having the coolest new toys in your game. Just look at the last couple of FF games. Read the reviews. See what their strengths and weaknesses were. Find the common elements of the last few games that people really liked, or people really hated, and just make the next one better. That's all you have to do. You won't please everyone with every title, but you'll keep them coming back for more.