Where "The Reigning Deity" falls...

[Shademp]

Add to, or more correctly specify, that after a certain point it is so easy to overpower Zack (what with HP increasers and everything) that from there everything is very easy. Or so I've heard stated in a review.

At least it manages to be entertaining and the player feels good from playing it. That is why broken games such as KHII gain so much praise. It just feels good to play.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

I'm not saying that the game is bad or that it isn't fun, but games that actually have very solid combat mechanics are just that much better. As a developer why allow your games to be broken? Sure, they get praise, but it's mindboggling how much flak KH and CC get for their broken combat systems.

 

[Max Payne]

I'd compare it more to the Tales Series or Star Ocean, you know, actual RPGs with real time combat, and not action games.

But I agree about the combat, it's just too tedious imo.

Still fun to a degree.

 

[Makoeyes987]

@Shademp

First, play Crisis Core's hard mode personally and tell me that Zack is overpowered in terms of his strength and abilities, please.

I don't find hard mode wonky at all. It's actually...hard, which I'd expect it to be. It makes Zack who's utilizing all of the positives he can gain from materia fusion and equipment still not able to dominate and run over enemies you're fighting. You still have to think and move carefully and quickly when taking on enemies at higher levels.

And if you want more of a challenge, then for God's sake, don't use Costly Punch! Just leave it.

I agree with Dacon that comparing CC and God of War is pretty faulty but yeah CC's weakness is how its combat gets tedious when you just have to keep going through mission after mission. There's only so much you can do before the grind grinds on your nerves, especially when you only have Zack. But it's still challenging and not broken, when you up the difficulty.

 

[criesoftheplanet]

I like the combat system in CC. Of course there is a ton of things they could have done instead that would have made it better, they wanted to try something new and it almost worked i guess lol. idk I do wish I could select summons at will, build up my limit break then unleash it, and also level up by the experience points recieved instead of by chance. But the combat system didn't turn me off enough for me to absolutely hate it. and yeah the hard mode is reallllly hard if you start from scratch doing it. If you go to hard mode after completing the game in normal it's not that tough since you've kept your level, materia, items, and accessories.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Well it's not horrible, but it's pretty medicore.

1. There's only Defend and roll. There's not even a jump button. Give us more options. Hell, the original Mega Man had more going on.

2. They could have utilized a combo system or something, or hell, some reaction-esque system like KII had. I know it had the slot thing (I forgot the name), but even that got kinda stale because the player had no real control over it. I would have loved some sort of combo system with rewards to see how long I could unleash a string of pain or timing.

3. Hard mode was wonky because it wasn't really hard, just tedious. My skill wasn't challenged, just solely my equipment and Materia. I know it isn't God of War or whatever, but considering you move around, dodge, and the like, they could have made the game more dependent on the players skill to maneuver around and actually fight.

4. Continuing the point of 3, Hard Mode just got straight up irritating when enemies had BOATLOADS of HP and I had to do 99999 damage to finish the fight in any reasonable amount of time, doing the same thing over and over. That's just bullshit. Costly Punch shouldn't have even been in the game.


Don't get me wrong! Crisis Core isn't bad and it's lots of fun, but the combat system is...ehh.

 

[Tennyo]

[quote author=Makoeyes987 link=topic=224.msg5619#msg5619 date=1231034961]First, play Crisis Core's hard mode personally and tell me that Zack is overpowered in terms of his strength and abilities, please. [/quote]

This. Hard mode is hard, not wonky, and I have yet to overpower Zack.

And I echo the statements that you can't compare CC to games that aren't even in the same genre.

 

[Shademp]

I think that whenever I get a hold of Crisis Core, I will start on the Hard Mode just to see how f***ed over I become.
That, and hopefully completing the game on that mode will decrease my will to replay it. I need any excuse I can get to not replay a game, or else I will spend too much time on it.

 

[Tennyo]

I started on Hard Mode. A part of me is wishing I had started on normal.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

And I echo the statements that you can't compare CC to games that aren't even in the same genre.

Not really, if you look at it like Crisis Core is just an action game with RPG elements. Sure, it's just the other way around, but even then my example applies. Any time you're designing a game where the character is moving around as he fights, you're going to be compared to similar games.

 

[Tennyo]

So if it's just the other way around then how does it still apply?

 

[Strangelove]

I had no choice but to play on normal. And I still find it kind of difficult at places. I'm glad I don't have a hard mode

Leveling up: You do level up by experience points. You won't level up unless you have enough EXP. But when you level up is random.

That's another thing. Not knowing how long until you get to the next level is kind of annoying. I'm trying to level up right now, and I wish I had some idea of how much EXP I need.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

So if it's just the other way around then how does it still apply?

Because as the player, I'm still moving a character around while he fights, which by default compares him to almost every other game where that occurs?

 

[Makoeyes987]

CC is NOT just an action game. It's battle mechanics, map layout, and game elements do not match the genre of action.

It's an action RPG. It just isn't. Kingdom Hearts is more of an action game than CC.

And you WANT reaction commands in CC even though that'd just add even MORE button mashing? CC already has a combo system. When you time the hits properly when Zack strikes enemies with his swords, you get in a combo rhythm that keeps the enemy from getting a chance to break out of it until they use a skill that gives them endurance. If you just scamper around mindlessly, swinging your sword with no rhythm, and not hit their critical points (which differ with some enemies) then you're not playing strategically.

There's lots of strategy in CC if you bother to look for it and utilize it and not just use Costly Punch all through the game.

Hard Mode will test your skill because you need to know where to hit enemies, memorize how they attack and where, and master your timing between dodging, blocking and attacking. You really are undercutting how the fighting works here. It's tedious, not stupid.

Costly Punch gains balance and a true need when you DO play Hard Mode.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

[quote author=Makoeyes987 link=topic=224.msg5650#msg5650 date=1231037927]
CC is NOT just an action game. It's battle mechanics, map layout, and game elements do not match the genre of action.

It's an action RPG. It just isn't. Kingdom Hearts is more of an action game than CC.

And you WANT reaction commands in CC even though that'd just add even MORE button mashing? CC already has a combo system. When you time the hits properly when Zack strikes enemies with his swords, you get in a combo rhythm that keeps the enemy from getting a chance to break out of it until they use a skill that gives them endurance. If you just scamper around mindlessly, swinging your sword with no rhythm, and not hit their critical points (which differ with some enemies) then you're not playing strategically.

There's lots of strategy in CC if you bother to look for it and utilize it and not just use Costly Punch all through the game.

Hard Mode will test your skill because you need to know where to hit enemies, memorize how they attack and where, and master your timing between dodging, blocking and attacking. You really are undercutting how the fighting works here. It's tedious, not stupid.

Costly Punch gains balance and a true need when you DO play Hard Mode.
[/quote]

Man, that's like saying Lincoln Logs is an extreme exercise in architectural skill compared to stacking bricks in my backyard. Crisis Core has about as much strategy as Tic Tac Toe compared to many, many other games one could be playing instead. It just doesn't compare, and that's my point. Give me God of War, Ninja Gaiden, or hell, a few other games that fits Crisis Core's genre better than the above but does it better any day of the week.

 

[Strangelove]

Megami Tensei's newer entries The ones with the Press Turn or One More battle systems. SMT3 Nocturne/Persona 3/4 will slaughter you in random battles if you're not careful. Some battles would be impossible if you don't use a proper strategy.

Except for that triple Thundaga, I don't think I really used a lot of magic in CC. And that Thundaga was mainly because it does 3 hits of 9999 for me. Weaknesses don't seem to be much of a part of CC's gameplay.

 

[Makoeyes987]

[quote author=The Notorious M.O.G. link=topic=224.msg5656#msg5656 date=1231038297]
[quote author=Makoeyes987 link=topic=224.msg5650#msg5650 date=1231037927]
CC is NOT just an action game. It's battle mechanics, map layout, and game elements do not match the genre of action.

It's an action RPG. It just isn't. Kingdom Hearts is more of an action game than CC.

And you WANT reaction commands in CC even though that'd just add even MORE button mashing? CC already has a combo system. When you time the hits properly when Zack strikes enemies with his swords, you get in a combo rhythm that keeps the enemy from getting a chance to break out of it until they use a skill that gives them endurance. If you just scamper around mindlessly, swinging your sword with no rhythm, and not hit their critical points (which differ with some enemies) then you're not playing strategically.

There's lots of strategy in CC if you bother to look for it and utilize it and not just use Costly Punch all through the game.

Hard Mode will test your skill because you need to know where to hit enemies, memorize how they attack and where, and master your timing between dodging, blocking and attacking. You really are undercutting how the fighting works here. It's tedious, not stupid.

Costly Punch gains balance and a true need when you DO play Hard Mode.
[/quote]

Man, that's like saying Lincoln Logs is an extreme exercise in architectural skill compared to stacking bricks in my backyard. Crisis Core has about as much strategy as Tic Tac Toe compared to many, many other games one could be playing instead. It just doesn't compare, and that's my point. Give me God of War, Ninja Gaiden, or hell, a few other games that fits Crisis Core's genre better than the above but does it better any day of the week.
[/quote]

LMAO, that's cold.

I'm not saying CC's battle system is at that level. No where did I say that, but it's nowhere near the button masher or strategy liking game you made it come off.

It doesn't require the most but it isn't just easy or basic either. And I feel comparing it to God of War is like comparing In n' Out to McDonald's (West Coast fast food reference to anyone who'll catch it ) C'mon.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

No no, Crisis Core isn't that bad, haha. I mean, contrary to the criticism I give it, I love the game itself, and it's one of the best entries in the Compilation, if not THE best. While I enjoy the combat, sometimes you know, I wish SE would have done a little more. But it's still a great game.

 

[Tennyo]

I ate at an In n'Out burger once when I visited some friends in LA. Many immature jokes were made that day.

That being said I guess I can kind of see the metaphor. In n-Out was far superior and used different ingredients (ie real stuff) and the burgers were delicious, where as McDonalds is not that great.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Exactly. McDonalds is good in its own right (to me, I know some people think its shit and maybe that wasn't the best example but too late) but comparing CC, an action RPG to a pinnacle action game like God of War is just....no.

They're in different genres and on different levels in terms of how good their action is.

 

[Max Payne]

Good action games don't utilize button mashing Makofgt. You can button mash but it'll fuck you up as opposed to actual battle strategy.

Also, I think they had to keep CC as simple as possible without being garbage tbh, since it is on a handheld and meant to be played on the go.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I didn't say button mashing made a good action game Baconuts!!

I'm saying CC does have strategy and while its not the best, it's there and you aren't just supposed to button mash and just spam Costly Punch to get the most out of the game's challenge.

And yeah, you're right. Gaming on the go requires a bit simplicity. They even said that in an interview, that they wanted the missions to be things you could just play while on the go or on a subway.

 

[Tetsujin]

Even though you are not supposed to just button mash, it sufficed for me most of the time tbh.

CC's battle system was okay, but could have been better. They said CC will show us what it's like to be a SOLDIER or sth like that, but it really didn't in terms of fighting power.
I was expecting AC-esque action to at least a little degree. Now, if fighting in CC was like Dissidia, that would have been godly. When I fought Seph as Cloud in Dissidia recently, I thought to myself that this was exactly how I wanted it to be in CC. But that fight against Seph in the reactor was just very static and slow.

 

[Edley]

So Minerva was supposed to be the will of the lifestream? And Genesis wanted her to wipe humanity from the planet? Doesn't that kind of fly in the face of everything Bugenhagen talked about in The Study of Planet Life? I'm confused.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Where does Genesis say he wanted to wipe humanity from the planet?