Why didn't he just leave?

[Shizuka]

Hello my first topic in FF7...Hope it goes well...

Right getting straight into the topic one thing I never understand is why did Sephiroth stayed with ShinRa? We can all presumbe what his childhood was like whether it being a strict military upbringing or being treat as a lab rat. I'm thinking a bit of both.

I know he was talking if retiring but my other question is:

Would ShinRa allowed Sephiroth to leave? This is of course if he hadn't gone mad and decided he wanted to become a god.

I understand that he wanted to leave, don't know why he stayed for so long maybe he felt not as lonley with Genesis and Angeal which is sad because clearly neither of them liked him and although I doubt ShinRa could of done much to stop Sephiroth leaving I highly doubt they wouldn't want him too.


Sorry if I have rambled on :-)

 

[Danseru-kun]

I think he enjoys the glory and fighting to some extent.

On a deeper level, I think he's still in the process of looking for the reason to live/his purpose in life. He has always known that he is special but it wasn't until the Nibelheim incident that he finally realized what his destiny was- to rule the planet with mommy. Just my cents.

 

[Shizuka]

I think he enjoys the glory and fighting to some extent.

On a deeper level, I think he's still in the process of looking for the reason to live/his purpose in life. He has always known that he is special but it wasn't until the Nibelheim incident that he finally realized what his destiny was- to rule the planet with mommy. Just my cents.

I think he enjoys the fighting but did he enjoy the glory? He always seemed uncomfortable being referred to as a "hero."

Yeah I agree with you there Danseru-kun and thank for your reply :-)

Slightly going of topic as when you mentioned Jenova it made me remember something why does he call her mother? After being in the lifestream he found out the entire truth. Is it because he doesn't acknowledge Lucrecia as his mother and sees Jenova as his true mother?

Sorry for going off topic :/

 

[Danseru-kun]

I think he enjoys the fighting but did he enjoy the glory? He always seemed uncomfortable being referred to as a "hero."

Yeah I agree with you there Danseru-kun and thank for your reply :-)

Slightly going of topic as when you mentioned Jenova it made me remember something why does he call her mother? After being in the lifestream he found out the entire truth. Is it because he doesn't acknowledge Lucrecia as his mother and sees Jenova as his true mother?

Sorry for going off topic :/

I don't think he enjoyed being a celebrity but liked "being above everyone else" that kind of glory.

Ummm... I'm not an expert in FFVII lore but I think when Seph goes to the lifestream, his delusion of being Jenova's son is already beyond repair that any information that he might have absorbed there won't convince him otherwise.

 

[wayfarer]

I got the impression that he was always kind of spiteful towards Shinra, but in particular he enjoyed Angeal and Genesis' company and the benefits that came with being a world-renowned warrior hero. He put up with the company's bull because it still got him somewhere. But when he finds out his origins that's what not only pushes him over the edge, but everything's painted in inscrutable black and white for him. He knows concretely that the Shinra company is evil and such.

 

[Roger]

Gast left him in Shinra's care, spend their time together instructing him on how to serve Shinra (presumably), prior to Angeal and Genesis being puut in hs backstory that was what was important to him.

 

[Shizuka]

I don't think he enjoyed being a celebrity but liked "being above everyone else" that kind of glory.

Ummm... I'm not an expert in FFVII lore but I think when Seph goes to the lifestream, his delusion of being Jenova's son is already beyond repair that any information that he might have absorbed there won't convince him otherwise.

I understamd what you mean the only impression I got from Sephiroth in CC that he was very lonley but hey I could be wrong

I really like your explanation of what happens to Sephiroth mentally once he enter the lifestream. Thank you

I got the impression that he was always kind of spiteful towards Shinra, but in particular he enjoyed Angeal and Genesis' company and the benefits that came with being a world-renowned warrior hero. He put up with the company's bull because it still got him somewhere. But when he finds out his origins that's what not only pushes him over the edge, but everything's painted in inscrutable black and white for him. He knows concretely that the Shinra company is evil and such.

Thank you Fenrir/Cerberus. I agree but like I said earlier I always thought he seemed lonley and extremely spiteful to Hojo. He wasn't loyal and didn't mind not following orders. I really don't understand Sephiroth, Angeal and Genesis' friendship but maybe that is for another topic.
I agree that he but up with the comanies crap because it did get him somewhere and also it was the only thing he knew plus Sephiroth wasn't the most social person.

Gast left him in Shinra's care, spend their time together instructing him on how to serve Shinra (presumably), prior to Angeal and Genesis being puut in hs backstory that was what was important to him.

Thank you Minato Arisato. Yes Sephiroth truly cared for Gast in my opinion. People often think Gast as a "goog guy" but he was just as bad as Hojo for what he did to Sephiroth. I think either way Sephiroth was doomed from the start and what Angeal and Genesis did to Sephiroth was unforgivible in my opinion.

 

[Masamune]

Sephiroth planning to retire just before the Nibelheim Incident was frickin' hilarious.

This kinda stuff was a running joke on The Simpsons.

 

[Shizuka]

Sephiroth planning to retire just before the Nibelheim Incident was frickin' hilarious.

This kinda stuff was a running joke on The Simpsons.

Thank you Masamune :-) why did you find it funny was it because we all knew what was about to happen or the fact ShinRa probably wouldn't of allowed him to leave?

 

[Masamune]

Thank you Masamune :-) why did you find it funny was it because we all knew what was about to happen or the fact ShinRa probably wouldn't of allowed him to leave?

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Retirony

 

[Blade]

Honestly I don't think it's that simple.

I'm sure he was painted into a corner with his reputation as a hero...and then to become a monster on top of it all (Genesis hammered it home for him).

And does anyone honestly believe Shinra Company would just let him go? I don't think so...not with people like Hojo running things behind the scenes.

Look at what happened to Zack, who just wanted to get away. I'm sure Sephiroth would've been gunned down eventually had he never found out the truth.

I think his finding out the truth prolonged his death for one thing, and for another brought an end to Shinra for the most part.

In a way, Sephiroth is something "like" a hero for destroying most of what Shinra stood for: Greed and Malice.

Of course that wasn't Sephiroth's intention, but Cloud pretty much finished whatever Sephiroth started when it came to anti-Shinra activity. But instead of just destroying everything...like Sephiroth wanted, in some ways Cloud managed to contain Sephiroth enough so that only the damage that needed to be done was done for the most part...call it, deconstructing reconstruction?

Of course you still had Deepground, but that's a splinter off the old corporation.

 

[Shizuka]

Honestly I don't think it's that simple.

I'm sure he was painted into a corner with his reputation as a hero...and then to become a monster on top of it all (Genesis hammered it home for him).

And does anyone honestly believe Shinra Company would just let him go? I don't think so...not with people like Hojo running things behind the scenes.

Look at what happened to Zack, who just wanted to get away. I'm sure Sephiroth would've been gunned down eventually had he never found out the truth.

I think his finding out the truth prolonged his death for one thing, and for another brought an end to Shinra for the most part.

In a way, Sephiroth is something "like" a hero for destroying most of what Shinra stood for: Greed and Malice.

Of course that wasn't Sephiroth's intention, but Cloud pretty much finished whatever Sephiroth started when it came to anti-Shinra activity. But instead of just destroying everything...like Sephiroth wanted, in some ways Cloud managed to contain Sephiroth enough so that only the damage that needed to be done was done for the most part...call it, deconstructing reconstruction?

Of course you still had Deepground, but that's a splinter off the old corporation.

Thank you very much Blade I really enjoyed reading this :-).

I agree that ShinRa would not of liked Sephiroth leaving as he (I believe) was the one that the people looked up to and believed in. So if he left people would begin to wonder why and distrust ShinRa more.

Although I'm not saying Sephiroth could of defeated all those soldiers that faced Zack. I just think it would not of been as simple to kill him.

And as we know Hojo did control things behind the certain so to speak I don't think even he wanted Sephiroth dead. Before Sephiroth went mad I don't know what Hojo wanted from him but death was certainly not it. Not even Hojo could of known at the time that Sephiroth would bring himself back from the dead.

I never thought it would be simple as Sephirotb saying "I'm leaving" and then walking out of the ShinRa building but I just find it hard to believe after all the time and effort and a lot of money that they would decide to attempt to kill him which I also find hard for them to try and do in the first place. Everyone seemed to kiss Sephiroth's butt look at what ShinRa says to Cloud in the mako reactor.

But hey this is just one girls opinion :-)

 

[Blade]

Sephiroth wasn't really the 'face' of Shinra Company...he was their enforcer. I'm sure he did quite a few dirty jobs for them in the past and probably wasn't proud of that. Maybe not as dirty as Deep Ground or the Turks...but still he had his fair share of blood on his sword long before the Nibelheim Incident (especially in regards to the War in Wutai).

Besides being a valuable military commodity (if you consider SOLDIER as a PMC company it makes more sense), Sephiroth was also the fruit of Hojo's hard scientific endeavor...not just to create the ultimate soldier...but Hojo was looking to pursue the knowledge of the Ancients...just like Sephiroth eventually would.....Hojo was looking for the Promised Land.

Obviously Hojo, Lucrecia, and Ghast know a ton about Materia (the knowledge of the Ancients) and Jenova (the nigh-unkillable enemy of the Ancients), but they each had different ambitions on how it was meant to be used.

Even if Sephiroth said "I quit" and ran off with Angeal and Genesis...or even if Sephiroth ran off on his own...Hojo wasn't going to let him go...at worst he'd "nearly kill him" and bring him back alive as yet another test subject, at best he'd collect his head (just like the Turks collected Jenova's head in Advent Children) and harvest the cells.

Hojo probably wanted to recover Sephiroth's body from the Mako Stratum he was frozen in inside the crater, but the only way to get to Sephiroth was to trigger a "Reunion"...which is what happened with Cloud. That's why Hojo was laughing about miscalculating that Cloud was the failed clone.

Regardless, Hojo didn't think of Sephiroth as human, much less respect him as a living being...he just wanted the results Sephiroth produced...whether on the battlefield or in a test tube. I'm sure he wanted to recover Cloud's body just as badly, despite injecting J Cells into himself.

 

[Shizuka]

Sephiroth wasn't really the 'face' of Shinra Company...he was their enforcer. I'm sure he did quite a few dirty jobs for them in the past and probably wasn't proud of that. Maybe not as dirty as Deep Ground or the Turks...but still he had his fair share of blood on his sword long before the Nibelheim Incident (especially in regards to the War in Wutai).

Besides being a valuable military commodity (if you consider SOLDIER as a PMC company it makes more sense), Sephiroth was also the fruit of Hojo's hard scientific endeavor...not just to create the ultimate soldier...but Hojo was looking to pursue the knowledge of the Ancients...just like Sephiroth eventually would.....Hojo was looking for the Promised Land.

Obviously Hojo, Lucrecia, and Ghast know a ton about Materia (the knowledge of the Ancients) and Jenova (the nigh-unkillable enemy of the Ancients), but they each had different ambitions on how it was meant to be used.

Even if Sephiroth said "I quit" and ran off with Angeal and Genesis...or even if Sephiroth ran off on his own...Hojo wasn't going to let him go...at worst he'd "nearly kill him" and bring him back alive as yet another test subject, at best he'd collect his head (just like the Turks collected Jenova's head in Advent Children) and harvest the cells.

Hojo probably wanted to recover Sephiroth's body from the Mako Stratum he was frozen in inside the crater, but the only way to get to Sephiroth was to trigger a "Reunion"...which is what happened with Cloud. That's why Hojo was laughing about miscalculating that Cloud was the failed clone.

Regardless, Hojo didn't think of Sephiroth as human, much less respect him as a living being...he just wanted the results Sephiroth produced...whether on the battlefield or in a test tube. I'm sure he wanted to recover Cloud's body just as badly, despite injecting J Cells into himself.

Thank you Blade I really enjoyed reading this again

As for Sephiroth being the enforcer of ShinRa I usually saw that role for the Turks. People looked up to Sephiroth he was a hero after all or maybe I'm reading to much into it. However two people that lived far away from Midgar (Genesis and Cloud) joined ShinRa to become a hero like Sephiroth people obvisouly looked up to him. Thats why I think he was more of the face of the company rather than a enforcer.

I agree that Sephiroth was very important to Hojo but Sephiroth was not first created to become a super Soilder.

I think that Hojo certainly did not like the fact that Sephiroth looked do on him. I also don't think Hojo would of been that happy him dying though as messed up as Hojo was Sephiroth was Hojo's blood and look at what Sephirorh achieved Hojo must of been proud (I am not stating he loved Sephiroth it was the most messed up father/son I would say relationship but it wasnt even that)

If the project was that simple after Sephiroth dying why didn't he do another one? Because it was far from simple. I agree that Sephiroth leaving ShinRa Hojo would be far from happy. I mean he was obsessed with Sephiroth he even set up a fan club up of him when Sephiroth was like five years old.

 

[Blade]

It's better to actually get your facts straight, however...instead of making fan assumptions. "I think", "I feel"...unless it's a fact you can back up, it's speculation.

All we know is that he fought in a war some time previous for Shinra and that the director of SOLDIER disappeared among other members shortly thereafter because of what happened with Genesis.

As for Hojo...like I said, he isn't the type to take pride in anything unless there are RESULTS (and according to him the results didn't happen until long after he learned of what happened to Cloud, and even further into Dirge of Cerberus). As hard as Sephiroth worked in SOLDIER, Hojo never acknowledged him, it's never even hinted or stated. The Jenova Project was just a stepping stone to Hojo's bigger goals...that of fully harnessing the Planet's Power along with Jenova...just like the original president of Shinra's goals were.

If anything Sephiroth was a byproduct to understanding the nature of Jenova's cells...remember, he was still trying to perfect the cloning process when he obtained Zack and Cloud as samples...and this was AFTER the Nibelheim incident.

The very fact that Sephiroth went rogue should at least serve as evidence to the fact he was an incomplete being. At least in Cloud's case, he stabilized and became stronger as a result...even strong enough to shake off Geostigma (with a little help).

So before coming to fanbased conclusions, it's better to focus on what we know.