Why Rufus lied to Cloud¿

[guisado]

In the begining of movie he say:

Rufus: As a first step we have commenced an investigation in Sephiroth’s wake.


Reno (still outside the door): Yup, at the Northern Cave!

Rufus: What do you think we found? Nothing. Nothing at all. You can relax. However, not all went as planned. We were interrupted by the same three who attacked you. Kadaj and his gang.

Is lie, they found the Jenova head yeah? Why lie?

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Because if Cloud knew Shinra had its hands (or his hands) on any part of Jenova, his first and only objective would be to wrest it away from Rufus and destroy it. And Rufus doesn't want to destroy it (not yet anyway) because he thinks it may hold the key to curing geostigma.

 

[guisado]

Because if Cloud knew Shinra had its hands (or his hands) on any part of Jenova, his first and only objective would be to wrest it away from Rufus and destroy it. And Rufus doesn't want to destroy it (not yet anyway) because he thinks it may hold the key to curing geostigma.

mmm very interested is a official response or an assumption that you get by the argument of the movie?

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Well, it's what I deduce from what I know of their past history and their characters. Beside, Rufus is probably operating on a need to know basis, and Cloud doesn't need to know that Shinra has Jenova's head. I think the real question is, why would Rufus tell him if he didn't have to?

Maybe others think differently?

 

[Farron]

Play the game.

Rufus is a manipulative but sexy ? Power Hungry Man who wanted to control the world with fear.

But really ? Play the game. This may sound like assuming, but I don't think that you have otherwise you would of known, you are missing out on so much.



so so so so so so so so so so can't express this enough much.

 

[Rydeen]

I believe Case of Shinra states that he intended to retrieve it for Geostigma research.
He wanted to see if he could get intel (and "muscle," as he says, due to the possibly dire situation that was brewing) out of Cloud. He probably assumes that Cloud knows as much, or more, about the nature of Sephiroth than he does, being that Hojo hid a lot of his files from Shinra. Cloud was not proving to be trustful of Rufus' intentions in general (reasonably, given his track record of kinda being a ruthless Machiavellian prick), so his operation would be at risk if he'd told him. What I'm wondering is why he hid its location from even the Turks.

It's funny how the entire plot of the film hangs on the hinge of Kadaj, for whatever reason, deciding not to torture Rufus for information. It's not like someone of such character would be opposed to hurting a man in a wheelchair.

 

[Ami]

It's Rufus SHINRA. He'll lie about everything to Cloud and the party's faces because the company itself has a lot of things that happen behind closed doors. But yes, from what everyone has already said, he was researching it to cure geostigma.

 

[Clement Rage]

I believe Case of Shinra states that he intended to retrieve it for Geostigma research.
He wanted to see if he could get intel (and "muscle," as he says, due to the possibly dire situation that was brewing) out of Cloud. He probably assumes that Cloud knows as much, or more, about the nature of Sephiroth than he does, being that Hojo hid a lot of his files from Shinra. Cloud was not proving to be trustful of Rufus' intentions in general (reasonably, given his track record of kinda being a ruthless Machiavellian prick), so his operation would be at risk if he'd told him. What I'm wondering is why he hid its location from even the Turks.

It's funny how the entire plot of the film hangs on the hinge of Kadaj, for whatever reason, deciding not to torture Rufus for information. It's not like someone of such character would be opposed to hurting a man in a wheelchair.

Or search him.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

I believe Case of Shinra states that he intended to retrieve it for Geostigma research.
He wanted to see if he could get intel (and "muscle," as he says, due to the possibly dire situation that was brewing) out of Cloud. He probably assumes that Cloud knows as much, or more, about the nature of Sephiroth than he does, being that Hojo hid a lot of his files from Shinra. Cloud was not proving to be trustful of Rufus' intentions in general (reasonably, given his track record of kinda being a ruthless Machiavellian prick), so his operation would be at risk if he'd told him. What I'm wondering is why he hid its location from even the Turks.

It's funny how the entire plot of the film hangs on the hinge of Kadaj, for whatever reason, deciding not to torture Rufus for information. It's not like someone of such character would be opposed to hurting a man in a wheelchair.

Yeah, that's a bottomless pit of a plot hole.

I think the Turks knew where Jenova's head was. They just weren't telling. What's really weird is that putting it on his lap and pulling a blanket over his head was the best hiding place Rufus could come up with. I think the designers visualised that "falling from the building" scene right from the start and just wrote whatever flimsy excuse for a plot would allow it to happen.

 

[Telcontar]

What's really weird is that putting it on his lap and pulling a blanket over his head was the best hiding place Rufus could come up with.

"Keep your friends close, but your enemies closer." - Sun Tsu

 

[ForceStealer]

One, I don't think Rufus was intending to be captured. Two, Kadaj is repeatedly established as immature and rash. He was so convinced Rufus hid Jenova somewhere, the idea that Rufus would just be holding it probably never occurred to him.

 

[Roger]

He told Kadaj that Cloud had the head. He didn't want Cloud to know enogh to correct them next time they confronted him. He just wants Cloud to kill the SHM.

 

[guisado]

He told Kadaj that Cloud had the head. He didn't want Cloud to know enogh to correct them next time they confronted him. He just wants Cloud to kill the SHM.

Where part of the film say Rufus that Cloud had the head? i dont see this.

thanks

 

[Strangelove]

There was mention to this by staff or in a companion book somewhere, IIRC, but I don't remember whereabouts it was now.

 

[Ite]

I figured (and I can't believe I am justifying Advent Children) that Rufus told Kadaj that the head was hiding inside the Meteor monument, and being the charming asshole that he is, he passed his bluff check.

 

[Clement Rage]

It's not stated, but it's very heavily implied.

Kadaj & Co know that Shinra has Jenny. They go looking for info from Rufus, and then end up attacking Cloud because 'we know you hid her, brother'. Only reason they could know that? Rufus told them. K's comment after they find out CLoud doesn't have it, Kadaj' opening comment to Rufus is
'Boy, do I hate liars'

Kadaj calls them off after a phonecall to the Prez, and then Loz comes looking in Aeris' Church. They figure out that Cloud doesn't have it, and go back to Rufus again for answers. He tells them it's in the monument, but this time they don't buy it and bring him along. Kadaj' torture method is to destroy stuff with Bahamut, which doesn't bother Rufus.

The whole movie is about Kadaj investigating various false leads given him by Rufus and Rufus trying to manipulate Cloud into killing K for him.

 

[Akai Hana]

I think it is also give me a hint when Cloud first encounter with Loz and Yazoo, it was actually Rufus leading Kadaj to believe that Cloud has jenova part with him.. I think it is from a conversation Kadaj had with Reno while Cloud had to deal with Loz and Yazoo.. Not sure if this is true or not... But I always believe it that way...

edit: clement ninjaed me...

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I don't think Rufus told Kadaj it was under the monument. From the sound of the explanation Loz gave Reno and Rude, I think the SHM just concluded it must be there.

Definitely looks like he told them Cloud had it earlier, though. "This time, you'll get the truth," etc.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

One, I don't think Rufus was intending to be captured. Two, Kadaj is repeatedly established as immature and rash. He was so convinced Rufus hid Jenova somewhere, the idea that Rufus would just be holding it probably never occurred to him.

Yes, but a good son would have known.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Most ironic line in FF ever.

 

[Ite]

So when Reno and Rufus told Cloud where Kadaj went, they were sending him into a trap.

Why does that movie suck so much at telling its own story!?

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Edited to add: one of the things that bugs me most about ACC is the fact that when Tseng and Elena return from their brutal torture he has a bandage round his head (presumably serving to hold back his hair) and she has a bandaid on her cheek, and that's it. I get it that they were probably Cured - but what I don't understand is, why does she still have a bandaid on her cheek? What was so terrible about the cheek wound that Cure couldn't heal it, even though it healed everything else without leaving a scar? I don't believe they have more injuries hidden under their suits. They couldn't run like that or fly off rescuing Rude and Reno if they still had broken bones and torn ligaments and ruptured hernias and whatnot. That bandaid just bugs me so much.

I suspect that in fact the bandaid covers the full extent of her injuries; Vincent exaggerated the damage done to them in order to make himself look more heroic, and also to spur Cloud into action. In fact, Kadaj and Co suck at torture. That's why they failed to interrogate Rufus. They had no idea how. And Rude and Reno - they're rolling on the floor choking on their own laughter.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

So when Reno and Rufus told Cloud where Kadaj went, they were sending him into a trap.

Why does that movie suck so much at telling its own story!?

I wouldn't call it a trap. I mean, Cloud knew he was riding into their base and he must have anticipated that they expected him since they took Marlene.

 

[jazzflower92]

I wouldn't call it a trap. I mean, Cloud knew he was riding into their base and he must have anticipated that they expected him since they took Marlene.

I wonder why these three have the mental and emotional maturity of a bunch of toddlers. If they were supposed to be the manifestation of Sephiroth I would think they would be more emotionally restrained and think more strategically.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I wonder why these three have the mental and emotional maturity of a bunch of toddlers. If they were supposed to be the manifestation of Sephiroth I would think they would be more emotionally restrained and think more strategically.

Doesn't that sound like Sephy?