Why was Jenova kept in the Nibelheim reactor?

[Obsidian Fire]

It's never been said anywhere that Pres Shin-Ra knew Jenova was not a Cetra. Actually, I kinda think he didn't know as Hojo found this out from Gast's tapes of Ilfana. Keep in mind just how long it was before the science department itself found out. Hojo only found out after Aerith was born, by which time the SOLDIER program had been in place for years. And I don't see why he would have a reason to tell anyone, it's not like it would have mattered to anyone else in the company except him.

Also, the Compilation did not cause the "Northern Crater" plot hole. Did it build on it? Yes, but the plot hole was just sitting there in the OG waiting for someone to come along and add 2 and 2 together to make 3, and nobody in the original dev team caught it.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Yeah, this plot hole was always there. It's funny that we've never talked about it before.

And while the SOLDIER program existed before Aerith's birth, I don't know whether it was using Jenova yet. Sephiroth would have only been between 3 and 8 at that time.

In any case, Hojo certainly had no incentive to go about telling the other executives that Jenova wasn't an Ancient. Oddly, he didn't mind saying it in front of Zack, but I doubt he took Zack seriously.

 

[Roger]

Here's the script for the beginning of the scene where Rufus and the execs arrive inside the Crater:

Scarlet
"It's all Materia!!"

Rufus
"The ouside is rich with Mako energy, The inside is a treasure
trove of Materia. This truly is the Promised Land."

Hojo
"There is no such thing as the Promised Land. It's a legend... an
old wives tale... ...it's utterly ridiculous."

(The camera pans back down to show Hojo standing near Rufus. Rufus turns
to face him.)



It's clear from their reactions that the mako is so abundant inside the crater that it would be very profitable to exploit. Rufus even calls it "The Promised Land" his old man was seeking, the implication being that if the old President had known about this place, ShinRa's HQ would now be at the Northern Crater.They are not even particularly deep inside the crater at this point, and as others have pointed out, the crater is easy to access by air. If Jenova was found in the Crater under Shinra's aegis, then the only way Shinra could not know about the immense mako wealth inside the crater is if Gast/Hojo/the science department somehow found a way to keep this fact a secret. That's why I prefer to think that the reason they keep her in Nibleheim is because that's where they found her.

Yes after they realised it was the actual Promised Land it became worth it. I'm gonna assume they did not know this when they create Sephiroth to find the Promised Land. But just any old mako reserve even a pretty big one in the far away north would not do. Even Cloud freezes to death in a few minutes here. As "easy" as you claim it is to access from the air, it would still be quite difficult to create a Mako Reactor that leads anywhere here. And the Highwind was a few decades away from being invented when Gast would have found Jenova.

And I disagree that these are not that far into the crater. They were at the end of the level. Accessing it from the air it might've been quick but Gast's excavation probably had to walk. And it's mako reserves are hardly easily visible from the outside.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

It is very easily observed from the outside:

Spoiler: Exterior shot

 

[Roger]

It is very easily observed from the outside:

Spoiler: Exterior shot

I don't think it looks like that on any given day.

Probably usually looks like this.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Your screenshot is from after Sephiroth cast Meteor, resulting in the Weapons awakening and the entire crater area collapsing into the planet like a caldera. On any given day prior to that, the area would have looked as it did in my screenshot, as the planet had been sending all that spirit energy to that spot for 2,000 years. The party even comments on this upon reaching the summit of Gaea's Cliff:

Cloud
An old crater...
Something fell out of the sky and crashed down here......
Leaving a scar on the planet.

Tifa
So the planet has gathered all this energy here to heal itself?

Nanaki
The energy of the planet is concentrated here.
It is slowly healing its old wound.

Yuffie
Even I know what's going on. The energy's bein' gathered here to heal the gash.

Cait Sith
It's trying to heal its wound by gathering all that energy here.

Vincent
It's amassed a vast amount of energy to heal itself.

Cloud
Sephiroth took that energy and is trying to use Meteor.
Next time the wound won't be so small.

 

[Roger]

Your screenshot is from during the summoning when that energy is in use. not an average day either.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

No, that screenshot is from when the party arrives at the summit. The casting doesn't happen until later.

 

[Roger]

Right, the Black Materia hasn't arrived yet but as Cloud says he has already taken the energy.

 

[Clement Rage]

But that's the thing. They seemed to think it was worth going. They sent scientists. When they lost contact with them, they sent troops, including SOLDIERs. Then they sent machines and more troops. Even when only SOLDIERs -- and, eventually, only Zack -- could move forward, they kept going.

.

And what did they find after all that effort?

Zack: Some goddess chick tried to beat the fuck out of me.

Scientist: Forget it, project shelved.

It's most likely a plot hole, but it is possible to give them the benefit of the doubt. Maybe Gast's expedition didn't tell anyone what he found deliberately, and since Shinra's not really an air power, they aren't going to send the one airship they have somewhere that, as far as they know, contains pretty much nothing but killer monsters.

Shinra is a big enough company that different parts of it can work at cross purposes. The fact that whoever was researching the caves didn't report it upwards isn't impossible.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Right, the Black Materia hasn't arrived yet but as Cloud says he has already taken the energy.

I'm ... not sure what point you're making. The energy had to be there in order for Sephiroth to claim it. Sephiroth is here because the energy is here, not the other way around. As everyone remarks, the planet gathered this energy, and, as Aerith noted, it would take being somewhere a lot of energy had gathered in order to cast Meteor.

That's what this place is. Again, it's why Seph is here.

And what did they find after all that effort?

Zack: Some goddess chick tried to beat the fuck out of me.

Scientist: Forget it, project shelved.

Assuming Zack didn't just run away from that fight once he finally got there:

Someone apparently took care of this thing that's
been on the back burner forever. All the bigwigs
and everyone in SOLDIER are freaking out that
it's the return of the SOLDIER legend.
The source of the problem was apparently more powerful
than a summon. Its materia reaction was so beyond measure,
the gauge started to smoke. In fact, the materia power
was so intense that other monsters, and even robots,
became overloaded with mako and started going berserk.
Anyway, I was thinking... This SOLDIER legend...
Could everybody be talking about... YOU?

Hell, even if he did, it would have required a very selective release of information from those involved for no one to have ever mentioned that bigass swirling collection of the planet's energy.

As you said, it's not impossible for it to be covered up, and it's easy enough to believe Hojo would have. Hell, he had to have. Gast's report includes blatant mention by Ifalna of the planet's energy being gathered there.

Now, it's also easy enough to believe that the researcher Zack and the other troops' reports went to had to deliver his or her own findings to Hojo before they went higher in the chain of command, so Hojo could keep that one detail hidden. But this also means Gast said nothing about it. That, for whatever reason, he just didn't bother describing the unique, fascinating place where he discovered Jenova, even though the project he used Jenova for thereafter was designed for the very purpose of producing an Ancient to lead the company to the place he just got back from!

Is there any sense to be made from all this? Why would Gast do all that? Did his own scientific curiosity get the best of him too? Did he think Shin-Ra wouldn't fund his playground if he told them he had already found what they were looking for?

 

[Roger]

Whatever the explanation, I really don't think Gast or Hojo have any motive for keeping Mako Winter Wonderland a secret. Especially Hojo, they could've had Neo-Midgar up and running for decades by now.

 

[jazzflower92]

Another thing that gets me if Shinra ever found or not Jenova was not an ancient because some material say they did eventually figure it out. On the other hand there is some evidence that they still believed she was a Cetra because Hojo seems to have kept tons of information about her to himself.

 

[Roger]

Someone apparently took care of this thing that's
been on the back burner forever. All the bigwigs
and everyone in SOLDIER are freaking out that
it's the return of the SOLDIER legend.
The source of the problem was apparently more powerful
than a summon. Its materia reaction was so beyond measure,
the gauge started to smoke. In fact, the materia power
was so intense that other monsters, and even robots,
became overloaded with mako and started going berserk.
Anyway, I was thinking... This SOLDIER legend...
Could everybody be talking about... YOU?

I really can't bring myself to consider this canon. Zack and Sephiroth left SOLDIER at the same time. That missions Zack did makes people talk about about the Return of the SOLDIER Legend tells me he's doing things even Sephiroth can't and recalls feats from other SOLDIER whose feats Sephiroth also never measured up too.

 

[jazzflower92]

Man, as if Zack was not even more of an Ace as he is in canon.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Of interest to our discussion, I found this on pg. 162 of the Ultimania Omega:

----
Hojo's Position
Despite having turned in his resignation to Shin-Ra and pursuing Sephiroth independently, he is on board the airship with Rufus, Heidegger and the others. He was apprehended during pursuit and apparently brought along as a guide to the Promised Land.

As it seems Hojo had been silent about these matters to Shin-Ra, he was needed for his knowledge of the secrets and dangers hidden in this land and its environs. It could certainly be said that he used Shin-Ra in turn to satisfy his personal desire to confirm whether the Reunion Theory he posited was correct.

[Screenshot caption of Hojo standing near Rude (and the invisible Reno) on the Highwind]
Hojo kept secret the information he gained from Gast's report.
----

Japanese text:
----
宝条の立場
神羅に辞表を出して単独でセフィロスを追っていたはぞの宝条だが、この時点ではルーファウスやハイデッガーたちとともに飛空艇に乗船している。途中で追っ手につかまり、「 約束の地」への案内人として連れてこられたらしい。
一見神羅に黙して従っているかのような宝条だが、彼はこの地の秘密や危険性を承知のうえで、それを周囲に隠している。「自分の打ち立てたリユニオン仮説が正しいのかどうか見届けたい」という個人的な欲望を満足させるため、彼のほうが逆に神羅を利用しているとも言えるだろう。

[Screenshot caption of Hojo standing near Rude (and the invisible Reno) on the Highwind]
宝条は、ガスト博士の記録から得た情報を秘密にしている。
----

 

[jazzflower92]

So, it looks like Hojo has been withholding information from Shinra in order to further his own plans involving the reunion theory. This means he was throwing President Shinra off about everything for his own self interests.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

This confirmation certainly clears up some things. I still wonder why Gast never mentioned it all, though.

 

[jazzflower92]

This confirmation certainly clears up some things. I still wonder why Gast never mentioned it all, though.

Yeah, Gast really seems to be the case of They Really Wasted A Perfectly Good Character. Gast really seems to not be expanded even though he is connected to many important things and people in the game.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

I'm glad it's not a plot hole, although the plug seems a bit porous. How likely is it that Gast and Hojo were the only two Shinra employees involved in the operation to dig up Jenova? You'd think somebody would have twigged that there was money to be made from telling the President about the huge concentrations of mako in the Crater. Plus, why was Gast in the Crater in the first place? I got the impression they found Jenova by accident.

 

[jazzflower92]

I'm glad it's not a plot hole, although the plug seems a bit porous. How likely is it that Gast and Hojo were the only two Shinra employees involved in the operation to dig up Jenova? You'd think somebody would have twigged that there was money to be made from telling the President about the huge concentrations of mako in the Crater. Plus, why was Gast in the Crater in the first place? I got the impression they found Jenova by accident.

I remember Gast was studying about the Ancients and probably was led to the Crater because he felt there was connection with it to the Cetra.

 

[Novus]

Shinra did a bad job translating the runes of the ancient city too. It seems there was only a single scientist there who transcribed one orb. And that's just for the benefit of the game play so we know where to find the Ancient Key.
Also bear in mind when FF7 was written the world wasn't as connected as it is now. Today we expect to see trained soldiers carry cameras with them at all times. Competing markets mean that not a penny is spared so full expense logs are filled out on a regular basis. The technology displayed in the prequels obviously wasn't available in the original game.
As a global force Shinra allowing its science team free reign makes a lot of sense with the way a lot of our earth functioned.
As long as the science team was bringing in some form of profit, the company may have let them continue to play it loose.


Hojo's apathy at the discovery of the Great cave, might go a long way as to why the original team dis-included the part about the wellspring of Mako energy. They had seen magic before, this was just more magic and they were more interested in the perfectly preserved naked girl in its centre.