Lord Noctis
Harbinger of Darkness
- AKA
- Caius Ballad
Nope. Just a hobby.
Oh. Well I'm just gonna lay it out that you should do proffesional writing sometime. You would be a goddamn legend.
Would FFVII make a good novel?
- Thread starter texico11
- Start date
Oh. Well I'm just gonna lay it out that you should do proffesional writing sometime. You would be a goddamn legend.
Masamune
Fiat Lux
- AKA
- Masa
Is that 'cos he keeps forgetting what he's typed?
ForceStealer
Double Growth
mr_ite said:
I dunno. Yours and S and G's are several orders of magnitude better... Maybe I'll puss out and just post excerpts I'm proud of
Ite
Save your valediction (she/her)
- AKA
- Ite
I dunno about 'better' - if we could compare them, I don't think people would still write them. Every writer brings something unique to the table, their own styles and flourishes. There are a few novelizations that I think need work but even those have gems hidden inside of them. I remember browsing through one and it had this great description of Aeris looking at a water-wheel for the first time. Stuff like that makes the whole long read worth it.
sswishbone
Lv. 1 Adventurer
FFVII can make an excellent novel, there is a great depth to the environment and lots of opportunity for fleshing out the story. When I started 'Curse of memory' (yes, this is Peter J Marcroft, I found this site while checking if anyone had plagiarised me again!) I wanted to flesh out the events and try to give the story some more in terms of realism, as the game, naturally, couldn't be as realistic as it wanted.
I also had the pleasure of reading Mr Ite's version after he had reviewed mine and called it one of the greatest things ever (this was before it was finished and did go very very long so I don't doubt his perspective altered somewhat lol) Ite's is very good indeed, a lot straighter, but nothing wrong with that.
I do think though that with novelisations it has been too easy for people to fall into the trap of just writing the game. Emerald princess of vernea has done that with hers, it is decent in terms of being true to the game, but you might as well watch a 'let's play' on Youtube, as it has zero deviation or plot-hole filling.
I do think there are many great novelisations out there, but they all seem to stop. Still I am greatful some of us completed them, though I have recently pulled 'curse of memory' down as I am totally rebooting it. So we shall see what happens this time around I guess lol
I also had the pleasure of reading Mr Ite's version after he had reviewed mine and called it one of the greatest things ever (this was before it was finished and did go very very long so I don't doubt his perspective altered somewhat lol) Ite's is very good indeed, a lot straighter, but nothing wrong with that.
I do think though that with novelisations it has been too easy for people to fall into the trap of just writing the game. Emerald princess of vernea has done that with hers, it is decent in terms of being true to the game, but you might as well watch a 'let's play' on Youtube, as it has zero deviation or plot-hole filling.
I do think there are many great novelisations out there, but they all seem to stop. Still I am greatful some of us completed them, though I have recently pulled 'curse of memory' down as I am totally rebooting it. So we shall see what happens this time around I guess lol
Ite
Save your valediction (she/her)
- AKA
- Ite
Heyyyy Marcroft!! *bows*
Curse of Memory is indeed the shit. We've already talked about it before you even got here! That's a testament to its lasting power. CoM did have an epic amount of original content, which made up for the plot holes and gave people who were familiar with the game something to chew on. I mentioned earlier that it might deter people who wanted a straighter retelling, but I personally loved it and so would anyone who would commit to something so epic. A big reason I kept my novelization so straight was because if anyone were to take the FFVII story and run with it, you already had, and damn well. Great to have you on the forums, and I can't wait for the reboot.
Curse of Memory is indeed the shit. We've already talked about it before you even got here! That's a testament to its lasting power. CoM did have an epic amount of original content, which made up for the plot holes and gave people who were familiar with the game something to chew on. I mentioned earlier that it might deter people who wanted a straighter retelling, but I personally loved it and so would anyone who would commit to something so epic. A big reason I kept my novelization so straight was because if anyone were to take the FFVII story and run with it, you already had, and damn well. Great to have you on the forums, and I can't wait for the reboot.
sswishbone
Lv. 1 Adventurer
well thank you very much, I did see the comments already and pretty much everything that needed to be said was, so cools. With regards to keeping it straight due to me going so off, well that is incredibly flattering to hear. I do feel that what a lot of works don't really do is attempt to get behind the story in a sense of how things happened, and reflecting on my own work has shown that. I think at one point I had the trip through the Corel mountains take a single day, in hindsight I know that just doesn't work lol
Still that's the reason for the reboot, to truly make it what I want it to be, currently got 9 chapters up so there's plenty to read if any of you are curious, no idea when it'll be finished, you know what that's like first hand XD
Still that's the reason for the reboot, to truly make it what I want it to be, currently got 9 chapters up so there's plenty to read if any of you are curious, no idea when it'll be finished, you know what that's like first hand XD
emerald_fire2065
Lv. 1 Adventurer
Your critique of my work is noted. And certainly, this is how the novelisation started off. I typed it just as story practice to develop my writing skills. For me I wanted to simply produce the game in written form, and I didn't want to deviate from the original script for fear of getting information wrong or portraying the characters wrong, which for me was a big no-no. Obviously, by the time I got to the third instalment I was much more familiar with the characters and how they acted and thought, and the world they lived in, so I did start to branch out and add a few original scenes. As for plot-holes: I haven't filled some of those in because I'm doing the rest of the series eventually.
Of course it's always bugged me but hey, that's my style. 
And I've taken that onboard with FF8. I still stick to the game and its script, but I have a few odd original scenes to fill in gaps, like in the Tomb of the Unknown King.Thanks for mentioning me!
When I was ten I made my own FF VII novel I saw a Assassins Creed novel at the local bookstore, so guess it would be possible to make and publish, and I'll read it. The only thing is about the optional scenes, which side would it go ? And the LTD, if it went Cloti the Cleriths would be ticked off, and if it went Cloti then the Cleriths would be outraged. It could work, but because of the LTD, it could cause alot of drama and pissed off fans.
I saw a Assassins Creed novel at the local bookstore, so guess it would be possible to make and publish, and I'll read it. The only thing is about the optional scenes, which side would it go ? And the LTD, if it went Cloti the Cleriths would be ticked off, and if it went Cloti then the Cleriths would be outraged. It could work, but because of the LTD, it could cause alot of drama and pissed off fans. 
AerithLives
Pro Adventurer
I will say yes but it has to be done as well as "on the way to a smile". Anything other than total perfection would not be good enough.New face here
So, I was wondering what you guys thought. Try to imagine FFVII without some of the important elements that can be used in a video game, like the music. Do you think FFVII would make a good book? Do you think the dialogue is good in FFVII and can generate the appropriate moods and emotions without the aid of music (ignoring the localization errors). Might be a thing to try next time you play it. Mute the game and try and ignore the setting as best you can and see if the text alone can draw the right emotions from you
And, regardless of that, do you think just the pure story and setting etc are all novel material? (even if the actual scenes are dialogue had to be re-written if you think they're not good enough to make a serious book.)
I would have said hands-down it would do. Like I said it's one of the more thrilling pieces of media I've encountered, but I'm beginning to doubt my own judgement and feel a bit biased because of how much I loved the game ^^ plus I'm not a literary expert or anything.
If the book has as many pages as the Bible,yes.I wanna have detailed information about the whole world and how the characters have felt in it.If it´s written in a really emotional way as how I felt most of the time i FF VII,then I definately would read the book in one session,I guess.
Demona
Dominique Destine
- AKA
- Sizheng
Ooooh boy, I'm totally gonna phoenix down this thread.
To answer the question--yes, and yes. Having read everyone's replies and agreed with most of them, I'm going to risk repeating what others have said and just say--
Having not even completed disc one of my first playthrough (I'm working on it, no judgy-judgy) I first approached the FF7 story from the point of view of a writer and not a gamer. I'm aware of things like the LTD (something I fondly nickname the "Lovingly Talked to Death"), major spoilers and the vague outline of the whole story. However, these circumstances mean little is sacred to me in the form of details, etc.
At some point after meeting Ite and realising he was a fanfiction writer (noveliser/geek/whatever I still wanted to be his best friend) I started going through Ite's physical manuscript of "The Jenova Project" and making small edits, which eventually morphed into assisting him with a major overhaul of the second draft. This included discussing which game mechanics should be kept/maintained, POV, etc. In doing so, the process of novelising keeps coming up. To answer the thread question--yes, it's doable and worthwhile. Novels being completely different beasts from games, there needs to be a certain amount of distance from things like dungeon maps, game mechanics like potions (which make no sense) and dear god the dialogue of course must be rewritten.
I'm also talking about novels that would be read by a wider populace. I think that Ite's goal of novelising the game for people who have never played the game, who would appreciate a good story, is an excellent thing. The story itself would appeal to fans of fantasy, sci-fi, dystopian or enviro-cautionary stories, to name but a few.
I think that while Uematsu's music is obviously phenomenal and the visual game design superb, these things do not translate easily to text. However, text is capable of simulating the same effect--or compensating for it in some way. The key thing here I feel is to ensure that one does not try to do something like make long-winded dungeon-mapping descriptions or let bad dialogue stand. For instance, Cloud's freakout in the Sector One reactor? Oh God. Nothing. Just an invisible voice and no explanation. That sort of thing can stand in a game, but skews really flimsy in written form.
I think that once you get a feel for the characters, writing original dialogue that follows the plot in keeping with their characterisation yields a far better result than keeping the original dialogue. Have I mentioned I LIKE the game dialogue? It's just that it's horrible on the page.
Also, the contemporary as well as historical culture of Midgar and the game world really fascinates me. Makes me want to write a speculative encyclopaedia after finishing the game.
To answer the question--yes, and yes. Having read everyone's replies and agreed with most of them, I'm going to risk repeating what others have said and just say--
Having not even completed disc one of my first playthrough (I'm working on it, no judgy-judgy) I first approached the FF7 story from the point of view of a writer and not a gamer. I'm aware of things like the LTD (something I fondly nickname the "Lovingly Talked to Death"), major spoilers and the vague outline of the whole story. However, these circumstances mean little is sacred to me in the form of details, etc.
At some point after meeting Ite and realising he was a fanfiction writer (noveliser/geek/whatever I still wanted to be his best friend) I started going through Ite's physical manuscript of "The Jenova Project" and making small edits, which eventually morphed into assisting him with a major overhaul of the second draft. This included discussing which game mechanics should be kept/maintained, POV, etc. In doing so, the process of novelising keeps coming up. To answer the thread question--yes, it's doable and worthwhile. Novels being completely different beasts from games, there needs to be a certain amount of distance from things like dungeon maps, game mechanics like potions (which make no sense) and dear god the dialogue of course must be rewritten.
I'm also talking about novels that would be read by a wider populace. I think that Ite's goal of novelising the game for people who have never played the game, who would appreciate a good story, is an excellent thing. The story itself would appeal to fans of fantasy, sci-fi, dystopian or enviro-cautionary stories, to name but a few.
I think that while Uematsu's music is obviously phenomenal and the visual game design superb, these things do not translate easily to text. However, text is capable of simulating the same effect--or compensating for it in some way. The key thing here I feel is to ensure that one does not try to do something like make long-winded dungeon-mapping descriptions or let bad dialogue stand. For instance, Cloud's freakout in the Sector One reactor? Oh God. Nothing. Just an invisible voice and no explanation. That sort of thing can stand in a game, but skews really flimsy in written form.
I think that once you get a feel for the characters, writing original dialogue that follows the plot in keeping with their characterisation yields a far better result than keeping the original dialogue. Have I mentioned I LIKE the game dialogue? It's just that it's horrible on the page.
Also, the contemporary as well as historical culture of Midgar and the game world really fascinates me. Makes me want to write a speculative encyclopaedia after finishing the game.
Demona
Dominique Destine
- AKA
- Sizheng
Ohai Ite.
To all who praised Ite's writing--just you wait. He's in the process of revamping books 1 through 4 (and will get to 5 eventually, no doubt) and if you thought it was good before--well. He wrote book one at age, what, 15? Made a few patches of it at 17? I'm privileged to see the rewriting process. He's a bleeding phenomenal writer and more dedicated to this (Jenova) project than many trying-for-pro writers are to their original stuff.
I initially avoided playing the game while working on TJP because we wanted to see what how non-gamer's eyes would visualise the world. Of course, I gave in because of all the peer pressure/raving.
It's already ruined me a bit and we've argued about Wall Street. What does anyone else think about the translation of Wall Street into... well, the written form? The interesting thing is that Japanese humour, or Eastern humour, or video game humour, or whatever humour it is that has the game sending the player on ridiculous errands into whorehouses, etc. may not translate well. We've already resolved most of our arguments about it, but are there any other parts in the story that you guys feel might be or were particularly hard to novelise?
There's also the whole consideration about translation. Translated statements out of context are awkward, which is why dialogue is so important. The game dialogue is reasonably well-translated and faithful, but you lose some of its meaning in the translation--which is why identifying the story and then rewriting dialogue in English (I promise I'll stop about the bloody dialogue after this) is so effective.
Also, I forgot to mention in my previous post with all the dialogue ranting that the dialogue rewrites Ite does are amazing as all hell.
To all who praised Ite's writing--just you wait. He's in the process of revamping books 1 through 4 (and will get to 5 eventually, no doubt) and if you thought it was good before--well. He wrote book one at age, what, 15? Made a few patches of it at 17? I'm privileged to see the rewriting process. He's a bleeding phenomenal writer and more dedicated to this (Jenova) project than many trying-for-pro writers are to their original stuff.
I initially avoided playing the game while working on TJP because we wanted to see what how non-gamer's eyes would visualise the world. Of course, I gave in because of all the peer pressure/raving.
It's already ruined me a bit and we've argued about Wall Street. What does anyone else think about the translation of Wall Street into... well, the written form? The interesting thing is that Japanese humour, or Eastern humour, or video game humour, or whatever humour it is that has the game sending the player on ridiculous errands into whorehouses, etc. may not translate well. We've already resolved most of our arguments about it, but are there any other parts in the story that you guys feel might be or were particularly hard to novelise?
There's also the whole consideration about translation. Translated statements out of context are awkward, which is why dialogue is so important. The game dialogue is reasonably well-translated and faithful, but you lose some of its meaning in the translation--which is why identifying the story and then rewriting dialogue in English (I promise I'll stop about the bloody dialogue after this) is so effective.
Also, I forgot to mention in my previous post with all the dialogue ranting that the dialogue rewrites Ite does are amazing as all hell.
Demona
Dominique Destine
- AKA
- Sizheng
Why do you think I'm here again? I'm here to edit your novel and unite everyone in feeling smug about their in-game knowledge.
...it is pretty bad that we argued about this for maybe a cumulative five hours and I STILL can't remember it.
Then I'll go Margaret Mead and Ruth Benedict on that shit, only more fictional. Fan-fictional. Whatever. I'll write a goddamn "Coming of Age in Midgar" or sommat.
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Octo
KULT OF KERMITU
- AKA
- Octo, Octorawk, Clarky Cat, Kissmammal2000
Yeah, I'm not a writer by any means but I can see how the Wall Market part would be jarring. Coming back to the game as an adult, you see how it can turn from silly to serious in a split second. The zany events in Wall Market occur right before the devastation of sector 7, and on paper that would just look odd.
Like Ok, Cloud has to somehow get into Don Corneo's mansion, and although we know he could probably just wade in there and kick ass he doesn't. I think this would need to be explained, that there would have to be a real reason not to do that - probably that it might put Tifa in more danger.
Also, the whole errand surrounding the disguise is a bit far fetched. It would be easy enough just to get a plus-sized dress for Cloud instead of getting one made, and the wig thing? I find it hard to believe that there isn't a shop selling such stuff.
Oh and its probably obvious but Cloud wouldn't be the one chosen by the Don
I still think that a novelisation should devote a lot of time to describing the sights sounds and smells of Wall Market, for me at least the place sort of sums up the Slums.
Ite
Save your valediction (she/her)
- AKA
- Ite
My problem with Wall Market is exactly that. It is too indicative of what the slums are. You learn too much about the environment there. And the cross-dressing scene is (perhaps unfortunately) one of the more iconic moments of the OG, at least legacy-wise.
And it's not unheard of in fiction. I mean, it's as early as The Iliad for goodness' sakes. It's just the execution of the Wall Market fetch quest is so very video game that it becomes one of the only things that doesn't translate seamlessly into an action/adventure novel (Cait Sith being the other thing, hoo boy).
My original approach was to gloss over Wall Market as quickly as possible. Typical teenage writer. The result didn't work, in my opinion. You can sell anyone on anything if you ease them into it. If I described the plot of FF7 in thirty seconds it would sound like the zaniest story ever...
...but given enough time, all of those elements seem perfectly logical.
So my instinct now is to do the opposite of what I want to do, and that is expand the Wall Market sequence. The five-hour argument Sizheng and I had was about the how. She thinks that the sequence would be well-tempered by switching back-and-forth from the cross-dressing sequence to what is happening with AVALANCHE while Cloud and Tifa are away. That's a good idea, but I think splitting the focus either turns out like Empire Strikes Back's climax or like Phantom Menace's climax, and Cloud's cross-dressing fiasco sounds more like Jar-Jar than Lando.
So that's where I'm at. In case anyone was wondering
And it's not unheard of in fiction. I mean, it's as early as The Iliad for goodness' sakes. It's just the execution of the Wall Market fetch quest is so very video game that it becomes one of the only things that doesn't translate seamlessly into an action/adventure novel (Cait Sith being the other thing, hoo boy).
My original approach was to gloss over Wall Market as quickly as possible. Typical teenage writer. The result didn't work, in my opinion. You can sell anyone on anything if you ease them into it. If I described the plot of FF7 in thirty seconds it would sound like the zaniest story ever...
Okay so the planet is a living organism and there's a company that is sucking out its blood like crude oil to power their cities, and eventually the planet's gonna bleed out. You are a member of this company's elite force who has left the company to join a rebel faction that blows up reactors. Your old mentor also went rogue five years ago and burnt down your old hometown because he found out that he was the result of an experiment using alien blood to recreate the magical proto-humans, the last surviving of these is a flower girl who joins you until said mentor stabs her in the back from the astral plane. You killed him five years ago but he's back and trying to summon a meteor to wound the planet so that he can drink its blood, so you try to kill him by traveling around the world and collecting some friends that include a big robot cat, a talking red monster and your childhood friend. You fail to stop him, but it'll take weeks for the meteor to actually hit the earth. Your childhood friend and you fall into the planet's blood which blends your minds together and you learn that you were never a member of the company's elite force, but that you have alien blood in you and that the alien blood manipulated your memories to help your mentor summon the meteor, but you get rid of the alien influence and everyone forgives you and you get the girl. (Meanwhile, the evil company is destroyed by giant monsters the planet gave birth to). You and your friends go to the center of the earth to kill your mentor before the meteor hits, and you succeed and kill the alien too but the meteor is still coming but then the blood comes out of the planet to stop the meteor and maybe humanity is wiped out by a magic spell the flower girl cast before she died...
...but given enough time, all of those elements seem perfectly logical.
So my instinct now is to do the opposite of what I want to do, and that is expand the Wall Market sequence. The five-hour argument Sizheng and I had was about the how. She thinks that the sequence would be well-tempered by switching back-and-forth from the cross-dressing sequence to what is happening with AVALANCHE while Cloud and Tifa are away. That's a good idea, but I think splitting the focus either turns out like Empire Strikes Back's climax or like Phantom Menace's climax, and Cloud's cross-dressing fiasco sounds more like Jar-Jar than Lando.
So that's where I'm at. In case anyone was wondering
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LicoriceAllsorts
Donator
I guess maybe the question you're asking is, would it okay to take some poetic licence with elements of the video game that don't transfer effectively into fiction. I think it's easy to believe that Cloud would disguise himself in order to get into Corneo's mansion; it would be less dangerrous for Tifa, like Octo said. But, like Octo said, it would easy enough for him to walk into any shop in Wall Market (and if it were a 'real' fictional place, it would be bound to have more than one dress shop) and get a silky frock, so you need more rationale, more exposition to account for all the crazy things that happen to him. They don't necessarily have to occur in the same order in the novelisation as they do in the game. Off the top of my head, for instance, I might invent a friend of Aerith's who works at the Honeybee (because Aerith has lived in the slums all her life, and she must have friends; she's a friendly girl), and the reason Cloud intially goes into the Inn is to talk to thisa girl and get some info from her, and everything snowballs from there. Or... maybe she's friends with Big Bro, so they go there first, and again one thing leads to another....
[I always like to imagine the Brothers' Gym was the place Rude got his training as a teenage boxer, before he was recruited into thje Turks. Maybe they're his cousins?]
Plus, what about Cloud's sword? There's no way you can hide that thing. Would the bouncer make him check it at the door? And what would he do with it when he went into Corneo's mansion? He can't take it in with him, so he's going to have to hide it in a place where he (or Aerith) can get it at easily, since he has to have it back in his hands before Corneo drops them into sewers....How do you solve all these problems, ite?
[I always like to imagine the Brothers' Gym was the place Rude got his training as a teenage boxer, before he was recruited into thje Turks. Maybe they're his cousins?]
Plus, what about Cloud's sword? There's no way you can hide that thing. Would the bouncer make him check it at the door? And what would he do with it when he went into Corneo's mansion? He can't take it in with him, so he's going to have to hide it in a place where he (or Aerith) can get it at easily, since he has to have it back in his hands before Corneo drops them into sewers....How do you solve all these problems, ite?
Ite
Save your valediction (she/her)
- AKA
- Ite
Yeah. I'm tiptoeing too much. As Sizheng remarked about my book, after they leave Midgar it's poetic-license-land, but I'm too used to the linearity of the Midgar part. Need to shake myself out of it.
You bring up a good point about Aeris' history in the slums, the game does a pretty shitty job of leaving evidence of her fifteen years of slum life, except in her combat skills and flowers. That ain't a bad idea.
You bring up a good point about Aeris' history in the slums, the game does a pretty shitty job of leaving evidence of her fifteen years of slum life, except in her combat skills and flowers. That ain't a bad idea.
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Strangelove
AI Researcher
- AKA
- hitoshura
The Ultimania Omega was actually released just before AC was, and covers basically nothing from it (some of the information in it contradicting what latter things like Dirge of Cerberus or Crisis Core say). If you were to look for a book that was the most 'unspoiled' by the Compilation, I think that would be it. It's the only one released that isn't either directly related to a single Compilation title, or encompassing the whole Compilation. The most it goes into for anything beyond FFVII is about 4 pages introducing the, at the time, to-be-released sequels and prequels and some mention in an interview.
Demona
Dominique Destine
- AKA
- Sizheng
That's what you get for playing disc one 37 times and trying to explain its gospel to someone who is wading her way through it for the first time at a snail's pace. Yes, it's incredibly linear but I hear you on the desire to follow a somewhat railroady story-line and then branch into something more complex in following with the game.
Again, though--novels and games. Not the same.
It's an excellent idea. I am making notes already. We can talk about it tomorrow. But I know OCs are often considered problematic. Here, though, you can just use one of the existing people in the Honey Bee Inn and flesh them out.
Also, exposition and dialogue. Does she have an accent? Do other slumlings? In Ite's TJP-verse, the different sectors have different names for the green cloud (shield, ceiling, green blanket) that the reactors pump out. Do they also have distinct dialects? Just how unaware are they of the outer world?
And yeah, I'll probably get all my questions answered as I go along but ACK SO MUCH POTENSH. Hence that sort of encyclopaedia. The history of the potion's creation, of the discovery of materia and mako, of the ancient cities. I'm foaming at the mouth just thinking about it. And now I'll take my foaming elsewhere.
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LicoriceAllsorts
Donator
I know exactly what you mean.
Are you a writer, Zizheng, or more of an imaginery-world builder, or both?
PS I really envy you playing this game for the first time.