Well, didn't see that coming.
Here you go, guys:
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alaina88:
Now here's the questions: Wouldn't this mean that Terra souls are going into Gaia's crystal? And if that's the case, wouldn't it mean that the Gaia's crystal would use Terra's souls to make Terra creatures, vegetation and other life forms on its own planet (Gaia). Would this mean that Gaia is slowly becoming a new Terra? And last, wouldn't that mean that Gaia's crystal was slowly becoming a new Terra crystal?
I'm sorry for the ridiculous amount of question here, but could you explain to me if I'm thinking in the right way here?
But the game also says that they wanted to weaken Gaia's crystal to a point where Terra's old crystal could basically overpower it and take control of it. How does this tie in with anything that I've just mentioned above? To me, "Gaia's crystal slowly becoming a new Terra crystal", and "A weak crystal absorbing or merging with another crystal to last longer" are two entirely different concepts. So which is it and why?
Thanks.
Me:
Hi there again. I'll be happy to take a shot at this.
My understanding is that the two ideas you spoke of (replacing Gaia's souls with Terra's souls, and Terra's crystal overpowring Gaia's crystal) are the same idea. It's like how in the game Garland speaks of wanting to make Gaia into Terra, and refers to the true form of planets as the light at their center (the crystals).
So, Terra's crystal overpowering Gaia's would just mean that the souls of Terra have coopted Gaia's crystal. Compare to The Spirits Within film when the alien Gaia was infecting Earth's Gaia at the end.
Does this help at all? Let me know if you want to discuss anything further. =)
alaina88:
Ah, I see. Well if it is the case that these 2 concepts are interconnected in a way, it jumps into another issue that I have.
Now, I also read that if Gaia's crystal is deprived from souls, it will start to become weak. When it is weak enough, the already weak Terra crystal will finally be able to overpower it and assimilate with it.
But is Gaia's crystal really being "deprived" from souls? Sure, it is no longer receiving Gaia souls but it should still be having Terra souls circulating through it right? I guess my question is why would it grow weak if it still has souls circulating through it? Does it have to be souls from the native planet for the crystal to grow strong? In other words, must Gaia's crystal receive Gaia souls to grow and make more complex life forms?
In addition, I have another problem. Why attempt to weaken Gaia's crystal in the first place? What good of a plan is it to weaken a once strong and plentiful crystal, and merge it with an already weak crystal. Won't a weak crystal absorbing a weak crystal just make another weak crystal? Let me know how you feel about all this. Thanks.
Me:
It's not so much that the crystal itself is growing weaker. It's just that the presence of Terra's souls within the crystal is growing stronger while the presence of Gaia's souls is growing weaker.
It's all a lot of semantic mumbo jumbo, but the point it all really boils down to is that Terra was going to replace Gaia by co-opting its crystal. Think of it as like a gym buying out the building an assisted living center used.
The building is no less populated than before. There's still people inhabiting the building, but not the same kind.
alaina88:
Hmm, alright, what about this quote Garland says here.
Garland
"We must sort the souls."
"I want to disrupt Gaia's cycle and drain its souls, filling the void with
the souls of Terra."
"To speed the cycle of souls is to speed the work as a whole. Thus, war..."
"And in time... Gaia's souls are gone, and Gaia becomes Terra."
1) So I know ever since the soul divider was created everything that has died on Gaia has had their soul discarded as mist, but what does he mean here? Does this mean that there are still Gaia souls (before the soul divider was made) in the soul cycle? Does the crystal use Gaia souls and Terra souls simultaneously to create new life on Gaia until Gaia's souls run out?
2) Also, what is going on with the planet (Gaia)? Is it decaying away or is it in a state of recovery? People tell me the planet is decaying, others tell me that it is still recovering from the catastrophe 5,000 years ago when Garland first tried to merge the crystals in one stroke. Which is it?
3) Also, what happens to the physical form the planet? If Terra souls are in Gaia's crystal, won't Terran life start appearing on Gaia? Can you give me a rough idea of what everything will look like after the assimilation is completed ? Thanks.
Me:
1) Seems to me that Gaia's original souls are just straight up discarded.
2) Well, IX's Ultimania doesn't seem to indicate that Gaia in a state of decay:
http://thelifestream.net/non-compil...ons/1921/final-fantasy-ix-ultimania-coverage/
I think what we're seeing here is a miscommunication between what people mean when the say "Gaia." There's Gaia the planet (the physical material of dirt, rocks, water, etc.) which was in constant recovery, and Gaia the crystal (the "true form" of the planet, as Garland would likely say) which was growing weaker as Terra grew stronger.
3) My guess is that you would see Terran animals start appearing on Gaia eventually. Garland did say that his plan was to make Gaia into Terra, after all.
alaina88:
"My guess is that you would see Terran animals start appearing on Gaia eventually. Garland did say that his plan was to make Gaia into Terra, after all."
Yes that is what I believe too, but what happens to the old Terra (kind of shifted inside of Gaia)? That is what I don't understand.....
"I think what we're seeing here is a miscommunication between what people mean when the say "Gaia." There's Gaia the planet (the physical material of dirt, rocks, water, etc.) which was in constant recovery, and Gaia the crystal (the "true form" of the planet, as Garland would likely say) which was growing weaker as Terra grew stronger."
True, but the perplexing thing to me is what you just mentioned about Gaia's crystal getting weak whereas Terra's gets strong. I don't understand this concept. To me, Gaia's crystal isn't becoming weak at all. Rather, it is just has a different soul cycle circulating through it (Terra's souls) so it kind of slowly becomes a NEW Terra crystal and Gaia becomes the NEW Terra (like when Garland send when blue becomes crimson).
But then that leaves the question, what happens to the OLD Terra crystal and the OLD terra itself? Does it become part of the new crystal, or does the old crystal just fade away so that the old Terra goes back to the cosmos.
Me:
"Yes that is what I believe too, but what happens to the old Terra (kind of shifted inside of Gaia)? That is what I don't understand....."
My guess is its physical material would have eventually been shifted around to occupy other space inside the merged planet. Many of the locations on Gaia come from Terra, after all, and Kuja does speak of the Iifa Tree completing the fusion process between the two planets.
"True, but the perplexing thing to me is what you just mentioned about Gaia's crystal getting weak whereas Terra's gets strong. I don't understand this concept. To me, Gaia's crystal isn't becoming weak at all. Rather, it is just has a different soul cycle circulating through it (Terra's souls) so it kind of slowly becomes a NEW Terra crystal and Gaia becomes the NEW Terra (like when Garland send when blue becomes crimson)."
Gaia's crystal (the physical crystalline construct) isn't becoming weaker, no. It is, as you say, just getting a new flow of souls.
The soul cycle within the crystal, though (Gaia's souls), is what was becoming weaker and would be subsumed by Terra's soul cycle. As I said in an earlier message, think of the moment in the FF: The Spirits Within movie when the alien Gaia begins leaking into Earth's Gaia and starts changing its color.
Again, the planet's cycle of souls is "the true form of this planet" as Garland would say. Like I've said, it's really a semantic misunderstanding, as there are a number of things that could be implied by the statement that "Gaia is growing weaker."
Obviously it's not the physical material, as the Iifa Tree saw to stabilizing that.
It isn't the crystalline object at the center of the physical material for the reasons you've pointed out (there's still a flow of souls within the crystal).
But it is the flow of souls within that crystalline object -- the true form of Gaia. That would grow weaker as it was replaced by the flow of Terra's souls.
"But then that leaves the question, what happens to the OLD Terra crystal and the OLD terra itself? Does it become part of the new crystal, or does the old crystal just fade away so that the old Terra goes back to the cosmos."
The old crystal would presumably just remain inside the planet as an empty husk. Maybe it would crumble, maybe not. But it would just be empty.
It wouldn't be returning to the cosmos because it (the flow of souls) has moved into Gaia's crystal. When the Ultimania spoke of the crystals of dead planets returning to the cosmos, it meant the soul cycle within. Think of the FMV sequence in Dirge of Cerberus that illustrates what Lifestreams do when planets die.
alaina88:
Alright, I think I'm starting to understand things more and it looks like we're thinking on the same page for most of the stuff. A couple more questions.
Consider this quote by Garland:
"We must sort the souls. I want to disrupt Gaia's cycle and drain its souls, filling the void with the souls of Terra. To speed the cycle of souls is to speed the work as a whole. Thus, war... And in time, Gaia's souls are gone, and Gaia becomes Terra."
So we have our soul divider discarding any the soul of any Gaian life that dies. However, at the same time, I still think there are Gaia souls present in the crystal's cycle (they still must be there from a time before the soul divider was created??? That's the only way it would make sense).
I believe the following is happening, Gaian souls are being discarded when Gaian life dies, but at the same time, Gaia souls that are STILL in the crystal's soul cycle are being sent out to create new life still. We have seen things like the chocobo Bobby Corwen, a Gaian animal, born late game meaning that Gaian souls are still being given out. Eventually the crystal will send out all of Gaia's remaining souls still within the cycle out, making it impossible for them to return due to the soul divider. Then, only Terra souls will remain in the cycle, and Gaia becomes Terra because it will only be using Terran souls to create life at this point
Am I thinking right here?
I feel that this idea also explains the idea of Gaia's soul cycle weakening while at the same time, Terra's grows stronger. What do you think?
Me:
I think that makes a lot of sense, actually. =) You summarized the process very well there.
alaina88:
Really? Thanks. I think I will wrap things up there then. I have a couple of more questions here, though:
1) Why does the Invincible gather up souls? I felt that this process was never explained. Kuja absorbs the souls to achieve trance at one point, but the actual reason why the Invincible gathers up souls in the first place isn't mentioned, unless I missed something, lol.
2) Why do you think the Terrans left everything in Garland's hands? It never really explains why they decide to lock their souls up in Pandemonium. Well, they say they were waiting for the assimilation to be completed and the genomes will be their future vessels when this time comes, but I wanna know a little bit more details. Was their race on the verge of extinction and they wanted to wait for a better time to progress their civilization? Or maybe, Is it something that they did when they died (as in, whenever a Terran dies, his/her soul is just transported to Pandemonium). Tell me what you think.
Me:
1) I don't think there was ever an explanation given for why the Invincible gathers up souls, but if I had to guess, I'd say that it's just another way of getting rid of more Gaian souls.
2) It seemed like their civilization was dying, so they entrusted it to Garland until he could establish a more stable environment.
alaina88:
Yeah, those are probably the best conclusions we can draw.
Well, thanks for taking the time to discuss all of this with me.
Me:
No problem. =) It was fun to discuss.
