You know...Starscourge sure does remind me of something from FFVII....

[Makoeyes987]

I mean. Surely SOMEONE here on this FFVII board thought that the Starscourge held A LOT of eerie similarities to Jenova Cells and Geostigma, right?

..Right??

Like, Tabata totally cribbed from FFVII regarding this dark infectious element that contaminated Eos.

Like, let's look at the similarities.

1.) Both the Starscourge and Jenova come from a mysterious meteorite that struck the planet thousands of years in the past.

2.) Both the Starscourge and Jenova are highly infectious organisms that turn the people it infects into murderous monsters.

3.) Both Starscourge and Jenova are shown as a elements of darkness. In AC when Kadaj and his gang summon Shadowcreepers, the Negative Lifestream that they spawn from is shown as tendrils, puffs, or pools of darkness... Same goes for Geostigma and the Negative Lifestream that Sephiroth creates. Starscourge is shown to be gloopy, slimy darkness or ethereal tendrils of darkness.

4.) Both the Starscourge and Jenova have military applications due to the power they confer those infected, albeit at a high, burdensome cost.

5.) Both Starscourge and Jenova are capable of incredible illusory feats, such as changing an individual's voice, appearance, and mannerisms, all in an attempt to fool and confuse victims.

6.) Both Starscourge and Jenova confer biological immortality to the primary hosts it infects, rendering them nigh immortal and capable of regeneration. Ardyn and Sephiroth's strong egos are so tempered by the infection, that their spirits are unable to pass on in the afterlife, and require subsequent destruction lest they revive once more.

7.) Both Starscourge and Jenova are wielded by avatars who represent the collective font of power and control of said infection, able to utilize the biological/spiritual corruption as their own personalized weapon, after being inundated with its infection down to the spiritual level. Not only that, but the avatars of the infection are able to enthrall all those plagued by the disease, their will strongest and above all else.

However there are key differences of course. Namely...

1.) Starscourge is far more potent in terms of its speed of infection, yet carries a fatal aversion to light, which harms the monsters it create.

2.) Starscourge military application is limited to Magitek drones and cyborgs due to the highly mutagenic and destructive nature of its infection. No human is capable of carrying the cells of this disease and retain their will or humanity, because the cells will eventually attack and destroy the human's cells until they "vanish" and are reborn as a new daemon lifeform. However, Jenova cells can be rendered inert and less dangerous if injected in smaller concentration and the will of the infected is strong enough to fend off the mental deterioration that usually accompanies the cells and Mako showering. Hence why SOLDIER exists.

But these differences still converge at another point of similarity.

The Daemons/monsters themselves.

Though this may just be a design/aesthetic choice in terms of monster creation but.... One thing that's interesting is that the monsters that are considered "daemons" in FFXV, are some of the classic recurring monsters of the Final Fantasy series.

In regards to FFVII, one thing that never was quite answered, was... What were the exact monsters Jenova created that ruined and destroyed the Cetra? In Crisis Core, the monsters we see that are spawned from Jenova cells are the various G clones, and A clones. FFVII has us go up against various monstrous offshoots of Jenova, namely BIRTH, LIFE, DEATH and SYNTHESIS.

....But, as I played FFXV and saw what the daemons were, I had an interesting idea.

What if the monsters we see that guard Sephiroth in the Northern Crater... ARE the selfsame monsters that the Cetra were attacked with and transformed into by Jenova?

The monsters of the Northern Crater are never explained, nor given a reason for their residence there. Even in Crisis Core, where Zack explores said crater in the missions, the monsters that he encounters aren't THOSE monsters. They're either berserk machines possessed by Lifestream, other flora and fauna, or possessed troopers of various factions driven mad by mako.

But a number of the monsters of the Northern Crater in FFVII that guard Sephiroth during disc 3, return as daemons in FFXV.

Again, this could of course just be similar monster choice and design aesthetics for what the developers saw as dangerous, end game dungeon level enemies, but it's a very interesting overlap.

Ahrimans, Gargoyles, Tonberries, Master Tonberries, King Behemoths (albeit mutated not fully daemonified), Hecteyes, Magic Pots, and finally... The infamous Iron Giants which try to obstruct Cloud's descent to the core of the planet where they finally do battle with Sephiroth... Are all recurring enemies that are shown as daemons that are created from the Starscourge in FFXV.

Dragon zombies, parasites, and Dark Dragons also all follow the same type of aesthetic as other daemons in FFXV such as liches, wraithes, imps... Although we never see dragons corrupted by Starscourge in FFXV.

It's just an interesting coincidence I noticed while playing, given the similarities between these two infectious, mutagenic diseases that are wielded as weapons by two extremely powerful, nigh immortal villains that were once lauded as heroes but then fell from grace and sought revenge by plunging their respective worlds into ruin and chaos in hopes of ruling over it all in the end.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I mean. Surely SOMEONE here on this FFVII board thought that the Starscourge held A LOT of eerie similarities to Jenova Cells and Geostigma, right?

You might say so.

https://thelifestream.net/final-fan...servations-about-the-story-and-world-of-ffxv/

 

[ForceStealer]

Missed you, Mako

While I of course saw the Starscourge/Geostigma parallel, I didn't think about how the crater was where FF7 stuck many of the 'classic' enemies, and how that overlaps with the daemons in XV. That's a cool thought about the fauna in the crater being the same monsters Jenova sicced on the Cetra.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I have, of course, seen the suggestion that the monsters in the crater were descended from the monsters the Cetra turned into, but this is the first time I've seen the observation that the monsters from the crater who reappeared in FFXV were among the game's daemons.

Great work there, Mako.

 

[ChipNoir]

I'm not so sure I agree with the reasoning. The strongest thing that really sticks out to me about these monsters are that most of them are not only classics that appear again and again, but most of the ones in XV are specifically drawn from Amano's original FF1 art designs. I suspect that FFXV was trying to be a call back to FF1 in a lot of other ways (Four warriors of light, a big armored baddy, crystals etc) but a lot of it got lost in the reshuffle during Tabata's hasty clean up.

So to me it's more like North Crater uses a lot of classic FF monsters compared to the uniquely original ones to mark North Crater as particularly harsh. But maybe you're onto something. I just feel like there's a more direct explanation rooted in FF1.

 

[lithiumkatana17]

Great work there Mako! Interesting read. I completely forgot about those parallels.

Still wondering how Luna is able to heal others of Starscourge as an Oracle and be fine, but when Ardyn does it his being becomes a corrupted host and renders him unable to serve as king.

No. I'm never gonna let this freakin' plothole go! I need answers here!

 

[Makoeyes987]

Still wondering how Luna is able to heal others of Starscourge as an Oracle and be fine, but when Ardyn does it his being becomes a corrupted host and renders him unable to serve as king.

No. I'm never gonna let this freakin' plothole go! I need answers here!

Well I'm certain if you played Episode Ardyn since this post, you finally have the answer to this question

I just realized another parallel between Starscourge and Geostigma/Jenova.

The Negative Lifestream and Miasma.

Both are the resulting corrupted energy that is created from the infection of healthy hosts by their respective pathogens.

Living beings, even the entire planet of Eos become infected with Starscourge and this creates Miasma, the energy that's used to power Magitek Cores and Nifelheim weaponry. This energy then corrupts the planet and corrodes it, and eventually brings about the Eternal Night. Daemons come out of pools or portals of miasma as well.

Living beings infected with Jenova cells post Meteorfall contract Geostigma, die, and this result creates Negative Lifestream within the planet. A corrupted type of spirit energy that composes the Remnants of Sephiroth. It also presumably empowers Sephiroth himself, and even affords him the ability to blot out the sun with storm clouds, and change the weather. Oh, and Shadowcreepers, a type of monster, are created from Negative Lifestream as well.

Like, this is beyond just coincidence here, right?

It's just so interesting to see FFVII concepts re-purposed and reimagined in other FF worlds and stories.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Living beings, even the entire planet of Eos become infected with Starscourge and this creates Miasma, the energy that's used to power Magitek Cores and Nifelheim weaponry.

It is bonded to the magitek cores, but I don't know that it would be accurate to say that it powers them. They were already powered with magitek after all.

And off the top of my head, I can't think of any other applications of the daemons or miasma in conventional Niflheim weaponry. Verstael's Immortalis or the Diamond Weapons being highly unconventional after all.

Refresh my memory. What are you thinking of?

 

[Makoeyes987]

It is bonded to the magitek cores, but I don't know that it would be accurate to say that it powers them. They were already powered with magitek after all.

From what I remember in Episode Prompto, Verstael did state that Miasma exuded from "sublimating" infected individuals is used to power the Magitek Cores of Magitek Troopers. This allows the core to be the MT's 'heart' so to speak, and that's how they're powered and controlled. I think Aranea stated the same thing in the main game when she talks to Noctis at the train station, can't fully recall.

Also, this bit of translated info from the FFXV Official Works book, lays out all neatly the way the Nifelheim Empire works, along with their Magitek history and its use.

You're right that there is Magitek that isn't powered by Miasma, like the Magitek Armors, some of the Empire's armaments, and all the other gear and devices that derive from Solheim technology. But the Magitek Troopers, and all the other things devised by Verstael utilize Miasma as energy.

And off the top of my head, I can't think of any other applications of the daemons or miasma in conventional Niflheim weaponry. Verstael's Immortalis or the Diamond Weapons being highly unconventional after all.

Right, conventional weaponry doesn't use Miasma. But the MTs, Diamond Weapon, and anything else Verstael was cooking up utilizes the newer form of Magitek that is based on daemons. Care of Ardyn of course.