Maiden of the Planet

[Max Caulfield]

I don't get why people hate Maiden to the extent that they do. Okay, some people may not like it, but hating it?

I thought it was okay, probably wouldn't read it again, but I don't hate it.

 

[null]

I don't get why people hate Maiden to the extent that they do. Okay, some people may not like it, but hating it?

I thought it was okay, probably wouldn't read it again, but I don't hate it.

I would agree if it were something a 14 year old posted on ff.net. Maiden marks the beginning of an era of mediocrity and subtanceless wank for one of the most successful stories in gaming history, by a company that previously set the standard for innovation and greatness. Sorry, but I refuse to tolerate crap.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Mostly because the general rules of canon either run by a scientific 'majority of the evidence' or a 'Latest counts most' rule.

Yet there was a time that everyone here thought that Maiden and Last Order were canon as well because the same rules applied to them.

You have a strange habit of taking in the worst the Compilation has to offer and hugging it as its sole defender.

I can't help it if everyone else likes being wrong.

Also, did you just acknowledge Maiden as part of the Compilation?

... its the COMPILATION OF FFVII THAT'S WRONG.

Thank you. As has been the case since almost day one.

 

[ForceStealer]

Mostly because the general rules of canon either run by a scientific 'majority of the evidence' or a 'Latest counts most' rule.

I tend to stick closer by the "Actually written by the writers" rule. I didn't think it was canon when it first came out for that reason. I surprised when people started saying it was.

 

[RawrieStrife]

For me, it wasn't that bad. I don't hate it but I don't like it either.
Aerith seemed a little.... ridiculous ... ? And the plot seemed a little inconsistent.
And I really hate the way that they always push Zack to a corner. Well, at least he was there......
I like OTWTAS better. It has better plots.

And Maiden isn't canon, right? (Just wondering... Some say it is)

 

[Ⓐaron]

And Maiden isn't canon, right? (Just wondering... Some say it is)

Those people are full of shite. Maiden is, in fact, not canon.

 

[Vendel]

Yet there was a time that everyone here thought that Maiden and Last Order were canon as well because the same rules applied to them.

When did anyone think Maiden was canon? SE has at least acknowledged LO and gone on about it at some length. I dare someone to find one mention of anything that happened in Maiden outside of the story itself.

Oh yeah and I was the first 'sucks' vote. Mystery solved.

 

[Makoeyes987]

You really need to come off your high horse Mako. It's becoming really unpleasant to have to listen to you rant in every topic because someone disagrees with you.

And really the inconsistencies in Maiden pale in comparison to the inconstancies in BC and CC.

Eat dick as I ride into the sunset on my high horse

And you're wrong, but I guess that shouldn't be surprising either. Just stop being wrong and everything will be okay!

Yet there was a time that everyone here thought that Maiden and Last Order were canon as well because the same rules applied to them.

I didn't.

Also, did you just acknowledge Maiden as part of the Compilation?

....Oh you bastard. Damn you.

 

[ShuShu]

Maiden made alot of the more crazy fans goes berserk with LTD rage, though its just as canon as something put out in magazines having to do with promoting the current cash cow of SE.

Reads like bad fanfiction IMO, and I imagined Aerith to be alittle less of a ditz. Yet again, it does way more for the ZxA shippers, gatta give it that. I perfered the straightforward and Canon ColW to Maiden. No LTD bullshit and straight answers from the source.

Wouldnt say I hate Maiden though, or that it sucks. I'd just call it irrelevant.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

The time people thought it was canon, Ven, was right after it was published and for quite some time thereafter. It was only once Dirge and CC came along that people really began questioning its place -- Maiden was here even before the original Advent Children, if I recall correctly.

You also can't really use the argument that "At least the existence of Last Order has been acknowledged by SE" as a point against people having thought Maiden was canon since 1) it was years later that LO was officially designated as non-canon and 2) Maiden was in an Ultimania published by SE -- somewhat indicating they were aware of its existence even if they weren't talking about it in interviews.

For that matter, some new details offered by Maiden lined up with other newer official statements for a while (e.g. JENOVA arriving on a meteor), while others provided plausible explanations that have yet to be contradicted by alternate avenues even now (e.g. Holy needed the Lifestream's help because of the intense gravity between Gaia and Meteor).

 

[Vendel]

Sorry Tres I didn't catch that. I was looking in Aerith and Zack's profiles and the various timelines for information about Maiden.

I'm still looking.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Sorry Tres I didn't catch that. I was looking in Aerith and Zack's profiles and the various timelines for information about Maiden.

I'm still looking.

Oh shit, I LOL'd. XDDDD

 

[Vendel]

Oh shit, I LOL'd. XDDDD

I do what I can.


Thanks for letting me borrow this.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Yet there was a time that everyone here thought that Maiden and Last Order were canon as well because the same rules applied to them.

Yeah, before we had an official list of 'inside, outside' which Maiden wasn't even on.
The 'Completely disregarded by the makers' rule of canon also works.

Thank you. As has been the case since almost day one.

I still think you are overstating quite a lot of the errors there.
Now, granted, there are some things which are questionable, like the order of events of Gast and his leaving the company, but which don't actually affect the overall story.

I tend to stick closer by the "Actually written by the writers" rule. I didn't think it was canon when it first came out for that reason. I surprised when people started saying it was.

That tends to work, Atem, but falls down in light of things like Star Trek. In any case, Maiden again has never seemed to 'count', even in the UO, which doesn't confirm a damn thing Maiden says, and IIRC, contradicts it on one or two points.

 

[ShuShu]

Maiden was in an Ultimania published by SE -- somewhat indicating they were aware of its existence even if they weren't talking about it in interviews.

I WAS WONDERING WHAT THEY INCLUDED MAIDEN IN. Thank you. Although if SE wasnt aware of it I doubt it would be discussed at all.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I don't understand how Tres wants to break his foot off in Before Crisis's ass, but wants to snuggle up and protect poor Maiden from the mean old fans who want to crack its heart open like an egg.

I just don't see how one's forgivable and the other sends him into rage.

 

[Dashell]

And Maiden isn't canon, right? (Just wondering... Some say it is)

That's debatable but an official stance has never been given on the matter.

Sorry Tres I didn't catch that. I was looking in Aerith and Zack's profiles and the various timelines for information about Maiden.

I'm still looking.

Okay now show me where it has information on Case of Nanaki and Case of Yuffie.

Yeah, before we had an official list of 'inside, outside' which Maiden wasn't even on.
The 'Completely disregarded by the makers' rule of canon also works.

What? Where? Were OTWTASs listed?

And really, so what if it's never been mentioned again. Last Order is mentioned all the time and that's not canon. Maiden is just a side story that took place during FFVII. Pretty much anything else in the compilation can stand a little bit on its own while Maiden can not. don't see why the amount of times something is mentioned makes it canon or not. That's why it's not mentioned.

Nothing else Benny has written for any other FF has been questioned so I don't see why Maiden is.

EDIT:

And before you say

"Well cause it h as contradictions."
WELCOME TO THE COMPILATION!

"Cause it never gets mentioned!"
First off it was published in an Ultimania, I'd call that a mention. And Last Order gets mentioned but that's not canon so feh to that.

"Cause none of the info is in any of the timelines!"
Okay so imagine this

- Aerith sends her prayer for Holy to the Planet at the Forgotten Capital, and immediately afterwards loses her life at the hands of Jenova in the form of Sephiroth.
- Aerith meets up with Biggs, Jesse and Wedge in the lifestream and learns they can't join the planet because of their guilt.
- Cloud attempts to settle things with Sephiroth at the Northern Crater, but upon listening to his speech, Cloud’s self-image collapsed.
- Barret and Tifa were to undergo execution as criminals who had summoned Meteor, but they manage to escape through the guidance of Cait Sith, Yuffie and the others.
- Cloud falls into the lifestream and Aerith tries to call out to him but she can't reach him
- Aerith finds Zack in the lifestream and they talk about shit no one cares about.
- Tifa is reunited with Cloud in Mideel, who had been poisoned by mako. She separates from her companions in order to nurse him. Following Cloud and Tifa leaving the team, Cid takes over as the acting leader in the fight for the Huge Materia.

See how that doesn't really fit?

Also there's nothing in the timeline about Case of Yuffie as far as I know but feel free to prove me wrong. But if I'm right about that, that plus Yuffie not being able to lift a child or break a door down contradicts the compilation. Guess CoY isn't canon either.

 

[Ⓐaron]

And Maiden isn't canon, right? (Just wondering... Some say it is)

That's debatable but an official stance has never been given on the matter.

I'd say the fact that Square Enix has never, ever listed it in its many lists of canonical materials proves that it's not regarded as canon.

 

[Dashell]

I'd say the fact that Square Enix has never, ever listed it in its many lists of canonical materials proves that it's not regarded as canon.

Why does Aaron ignore my long post?

 

[Makoeyes987]

Because it doesn't make sense.

Maiden's point blank omission in regards to the Compilation and its entries says, MAIDEN ISN'T PART OF THE COMPILATION. It's not rocket science. If it's not there, it's not part of the group.

Furthermore, I'm sure the Case of Yuffie and Nanaki would get a mention in an Ultimania whenever one is released, seeing as how..they were written AFTER the last Compilation of FFVII Ultimania book was released. And the fact they're written by the same guy, Nojima, who is one of the head writers of the Compilation of FFVII and his novellas of the same series have been included in each and every profile and guidebook would be common sense that the others would follow suit.

There's nothing debatable about it. Maiden isn't canon at all. Just because it was released in the back of the first Ultimania Omega of FFVII around the release of AC, doesn't mean its actually discussed, included, or even referenced at all in regards to FFVII's expanded story. Especially considering it flies in the face of the actual canon. Show me a list that includes Maiden as part of the Compilation, because I've got three that shows each entry of the Compilation of FFVII, and Maiden is always conveniently forgotten.

Last Order has only been excised from canon very recently, by the latest FF 20th Anniversary Ultimania. There hasn't been ANYTHING that suddenly says, "oh btw, Maiden is part of the Compilation too!"

 

[Eerie]

It sucks. *10th person to say so*

It's a shame this gets published as official work; the writing is subpar, Aerith is ridiculous sometimes. It makes me cross-eye, that someone could write her like that and think she's the true Aerith. Some parts are ok and some are just *facepalm*

Let's say that as other stated, it's alright for fanfiction. And that's all. And I am thankful that it's not canon - even if it was, it'd make me laugh, because it does nod at CloTi and Zerith in some ways.

And before you start jumping on me, I also don't consider LO as canon. Those two works are nice for fans who enjoy them, but that's about how far it goes.

 

[Dashell]

Because it doesn't make sense.

Okay so, "Here in the Ultimania that's full of creator interviews and facts, here's a ttly fake story just for shits and giglez, enjoy lol!"

THAT'S what doesn't make sense.

Maiden's point blank omission in regards to the Compilation and its entries says, MAIDEN ISN'T PART OF THE COMPILATION. It's not rocket science. If it's not there, it's not part of the group.

You know maybe it doesn't get mentioned because it's just a side story. It's what Aerith was doing after she died. And again, Last Order DOES get mentioned a lot, and it's NOT canon. So how often something gets mentioned or not shouldn't be taken into consideration.

Furthermore, I'm sure the Case of Yuffie and Nanaki would get a mention in an Ultimania whenever one is released, seeing as how..they were written AFTER the last Compilation of FFVII Ultimania book was released.

What about the revised edition? I was under the impression that came out after the fact.

And the fact they're written by the same guy, Nojima, who is one of the head writers of the Compilation of FFVII and his novellas of the same series have been included in each and every profile and guidebook would be common sense that the others would follow suit.

Was Nojima the guy who approached Benny to write the story? Or is that not clear?

There's nothing debatable about it. Maiden isn't canon at all. Just because it was released in the back of the first Ultimania Omega of FFVII around the release of AC, doesn't mean its actually discussed, included, or even referenced at all in regards to FFVII's expanded story.

That's what I don't get. Why the hell would they publish a completely fake story, and NOT say it's fake in the back of one of the Ultimanias?

Especially considering it flies in the face of the actual canon. Show me a list that includes Maiden as part of the Compilation, because I've got three that shows each entry of the Compilation of FFVII, and Maiden is always conveniently forgotten.

Okay show me the lists then.
But I want to point out that the FFVII Ultimania Omega was referred to on Square Enix's official website as part of the Compilation of Final Fantasy VII under Magazines/Book and that's what Maiden was published in.

Last Order has only been excised from canon very recently, by the latest FF 20th Anniversary Ultimania. There hasn't been ANYTHING that suddenly says, "oh btw, Maiden is part of the Compilation too!"

What about other stories that Benny wrote for other FFs? Were those ever listed as canon or do people just assume they aren't... or are?

 

[Ite]

SORRY I'M LATE GAIZ-CHANS

Well, actually, that was a mistranslation, it was that she gave people too little change when selling flowers.

What a bitch XD

How stupid do you have to be to accept incorrect change when the price is ONE GIL!? If you give her a five, you should get four back. Jesus Christ, the people in Midgar are so stupid they deserved all the shit that happens to them.

I tend to stick closer by the "Actually written by the writers" rule.

Anyone consult Hironobu Sakaguchi about Advent Children? How about Dirge of Cerberus? Crisis Core? Before Crisis? On the Way to a Smile? Maiden of the Planet? Last Order?

And I HOPE TO GOD that Case of Nanaki isn't on this official "In" list because any story that begins with "Oh Gilligan Leave Me Alone! Youre a bad voice in meh hedd" is.... well... actually, it fits right in.

Any more room on that horse? There's only one entry on my "in" list!

 

[Makoeyes987]

Okay so, "Here in the Ultimania that's full of creator interviews and facts, here's a ttly fake story just for shits and giglez, enjoy lol!"

THAT'S what doesn't make sense.

It was a special, guest story that was written in honor of FFVII. The FFVII Ultimania Omega includes a part that includes all the special cameos and appearances FFVII characters have made in various forms of media and S-E games. I guess that means Cloud and Aerith appearing in Parasite Eve is canon too. See how fun it is to throw context and common sense out the window to just shoehorn something where it doesn't fit?

ZOMG IF ITS IN THE ULTIMANIA OMEGA IT MUST BE CANON!!!!11

You know maybe it doesn't get mentioned because it's just a side story. It's what Aerith was doing after she died. And again, Last Order DOES get mentioned a lot, and it's NOT canon. So how often something gets mentioned or not shouldn't be taken into consideration.

Every damn side story and entry of the Compilation of FFVII gets mentioned, but Maiden just conveniently gets left out, especially in the profile of the character Maiden is supposed to about? Ahhh...it all makes sense now.

It's funny how Tifa's OTWTS story at least gets referenced in her profile. Funny that.

It doesn't fucking matter if LO is not canon NOW. It was only stated RECENTLY that it was. Until Maiden actually gets TALKED ABOUT or referenced, LO no longer being taken with the Compilation doesn't magically mean Maiden is now part of it. That doesn't make a single bit of sense.

What about the revised edition? I was under the impression that came out after the fact.

You're under the wrong impression then.

Was Nojima the guy who approached Benny to write the story? Or is that not clear?

No one knows who approached Benny to write the story.

That's what I don't get. Why the hell would they publish a completely fake story, and NOT say it's fake in the back of one of the Ultimanias?

How the hell is it a fake story? It's a real story. It's actual text on paper. It's just not canon. Shit that's not canon gets made all the time.

Okay show me the lists then.

It's been shown several damn times, but I'll say it again.

Pages 21 through 27 of the FFVII 10th Anniversary Revised Ultimania.

Pages 6 through 9 of the Crisis Core- Final Fantasy VII "The Complete Guide."

The FF 20th Anniversary Ultimania's list of the FFVII series.

How many more times does the Compilation of FFVII have to be listed before people get it through their thick heads, Maiden ain't there for a reason?

What about other stories that Benny wrote for other FFs? Were those ever listed as canon or do people just assume they aren't... or are?

They don't have a series of spinoffs and extended universes, do they? So why are you comparing apples to oranges?

And I HOPE TO GOD that Case of Nanaki isn't on this official "In" list because any story that begins with "Oh Gilligan Leave Me Alone! Youre a bad voice in meh hedd" is.... well... actually, it fits right in.

Best summation of Case of Nanaki, EVER. ROTFL

 

[Dashell]

It was a special, guest story that was written in honor of FFVII. The FFVII Ultimania Omega includes a part that includes all the special cameos and appearances FFVII characters have made in various forms of media and S-E games. I guess that means Cloud and Aerith appearing in Parasite Eve is canon too. See how fun it is to throw context and common sense out the window to just shoehorn something where it doesn't fit?

That's just redonkulous. Those take place in another universe, Maiden does not.

Every damn side story and entry of the Compilation of FFVII gets mentioned, but Maiden just conveniently gets left out, especially in the profile of the character Maiden is supposed to about? Ahhh...it all makes sense now.

Again it doesn't really fit for them to suddenly start talking about Dyne or something in Aerith's timeline or profile.

It doesn't fucking matter if LO is not canon NOW. It was only stated RECENTLY that it was. Until Maiden actually gets TALKED ABOUT or referenced, LO no longer being taken with the Compilation doesn't magically mean Maiden is now part of it. That doesn't make a single bit of sense.

You missed my point dude, my point was that how often something gets referenced or talked about isn't something that should decide whether or not it's canon.

You're under the wrong impression then.

Ahh.

How the hell is it a fake story? It's a real story. It's actual text on paper. It's just not canon. Shit that's not canon gets made all the time.

You know what I mean...

It's been shown several damn times, but I'll say it again.

Pages 21 through 27 of the FFVII 10th Anniversary Revised Ultimania.

Pages 6 through 9 of the Crisis Core- Final Fantasy VII "The Complete Guide."

The FF 20th Anniversary Ultimania's list of the FFVII series.

How many more times does the Compilation of FFVII have to be listed before people get it through their thick heads, Maiden ain't there for a reason?

And OTWTASs get mentioned in these? And DoC Last Episode as well?

They don't have a series of spinoffs and extended universes, do they? So why are you comparing apples to oranges?

It's not really. I mean Final Fantasy X had X-2. Yeah it's not a series but still. If nothing else this guy has written has been questioned, Maiden shouldn't be either.