Maiden of the Planet

[Max Caulfield]

You guys are treating Maiden like it's the Japanese Twilight.

 

[Strangelove]

Japan already has Twilight. Ask Hideo Kojima.

He rikes it.

 

[ForceStealer]

Anyone consult Hironobu Sakaguchi about Advent Children? How about Dirge of Cerberus? Crisis Core? Before Crisis? On the Way to a Smile? Maiden of the Planet? Last Order?

I know this was pages ago...but just to my defense, Sakaguchi didn't write FF7. He helped, but Nojima penned it, and since Nojima penned all the other novels, I didn't count Maiden because he didn't. It's not like he died and someone else continued it.
Though Ryu's point about Star Trek stands.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Yes, and prior to stuff like the 10th Anniversary Ultimania coming along, that one wasn't an issue either.

Well, yes, but things can be 'decanonized.' And again, it still didn't even register inside the book it's inclusion at the end of grants it a semblance of credibility.

I'm not overstating them at all.

Especially those in CC and BC.

Well, let's see. Just Before Crisis's major offenses include:

-Yet another drastically different version of the Nibelheim Incident

Yeah, at this point, Nibleheim is like Han and Greedo. Fuck the details. Is Greedo crispy? Did Han do it? Good.

-Changing the circumstances of Barret's involvement in the destruction of Corel (returning from an out-of-town trip to being there the whole time), changing his knowledge of what happened (a belief that it was an accident is now full awareness that it was a terrorist attack), making Shin-Ra's "retaliation" against the town completely nonsensical (a belief that it was people in the town is now knowledge that it was the original AVALANCHE), and making Barret a fucking moron for having him take up the name of the organization that got his town destroyed (he somehow makes no connection between motherfuckers who came up with plans to bomb reactors and the dumbfucks who blew up the reactor in Corel?)

The only real issue there is if Barret learns that AVALANCHE was the ones responsible. From the transcript of the Episode, he never hears that name, and doesn't see any of their operatives killing townspeople or assaulting the town. He does see ShinRa operatives doing the same. It only makes sense that he'd blame them.
ShinRa blaming the town for harboring AVALANCHE or being part of it when they aren't strikes me as par for the course. Sector Seven, natch. They also firebombed a town just so people couldn't go in and find evidence against ShinRa later. Doing things to excess is the ShinRa way.

-Making Red XIII's understandable frustration over being the last of his kind in the original game into complete fucking stupidity since he knows that there's another of his kind alive and well a couple of blocks from where he's whining like a little bitch

Given that in the original game it took him nearly 40 years to actually proceed to learn about the truth of his father's demise, when, again, he could ask anyone and they would tell him, that he is wallowing in his misery on this account too does not strike me as out of character.
Incidentally, looking at the transcript of the episode, I don't see where it says what actually happened to Dinne after the ceremony, or anything about the ceremony, much less what everyone assumes happened to Dinne. Where we getting that from?

In fairness, the narrations in the FFVII Kaitai Shinsho are questionable as well -- mainly because of the one featuring Aerith as Cloud's date at the Gold Saucer.

Those stories he's done for other games are probably alright, though, since nothing's come along to contradict them or omit them.

Not that anyone seems to give a crap about them.

The OtWtaS story details in general aren't mentioned.

Though the vague outlines of such are. At least in Cloud, Tifa, Denzel, and Barret's cases.

It sure as fuck shouldn't be, and for those very reasons. That shit's retarded.

Given the door, I don't think it's couldn't so much as 'didn't want to', she was sleeping inside a cultural monument at the time.

Actually, she's right. The OtWtaS book came out April 16 of 2009. The revised FFVII 10th AU came out May 7th.

The Square website lists the revised as coming out in April, last I checked. Granted, that was late last night, so I might just be misremembering, so grain of salt.

And yet the revised edition of the book sitting next to me talks about it quite a bit.

I thought it was teasing about the film, not concrete. Ah well. I need to check it out myself.

He's written quite a bit for both, actually.

He has? Which parts of the Ulti are they in? I have some gaps.

Dude, stop this faggotry right now. I'm so sick of hearing this bullshit explanation given every time this contradiction is brought up. =|

He was in fucking Cosmo Canyon where he was free to ask anyone about Dinne when he was being a little bitch and even Bugenhagen talked like Dinne didn't exist.

God fucking damn.

He did the EXACT SAME THING about his DAD. It's par for course.

Except events outside the observation of the Turks are constantly shown in BC, and the Turk was in the fucking room in BC when Sephiroth leapt into the mako. This wasn't a POV issue and such wankery can't excuse it.

A wizard did it, then.
Kefka, specifically.

That is Clerith Fundamentalist levels of wankery right there. =| What the fuck.

Not really, man. Outside of the Nibelheim reactor, which I really don't give half a shit about any more, most of the contradictions really aren't that major, or involve folks acting stupid in ways they've acted before.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

And I don't know what you're huffing Tres, but again. Maiden states that Aerith rallied the entire Lifestream.

Nowhere in that quoted material does it say the entire Lifestream was slammed into Meteor. The entire Lifestream was awakened and available. Not the same thing. She only ever used a portion of it against Meteor.

Yeah, at this point, Nibleheim is like Han and Greedo. Fuck the details. Is Greedo crispy? Did Han do it? Good.

That's not even a good comparison. It'd be like having two versions of the scene where Han didn't fire, and, instead, Greedo's shot bounced off something and came back and hit him in the head.

The only real issue there is if Barret learns that AVALANCHE was the ones responsible. From the transcript of the Episode, he never hears that name, and doesn't see any of their operatives killing townspeople or assaulting the town.

He apparently can't put two and two together in the new continuity imposed by BC. Fuck, at the very least, he knows a terrorist organization that isn't Shin-Ra was attacking, which means he knows the shit wasn't an accident as he claimed to be the case in the original FFVII.

ShinRa blaming the town for harboring AVALANCHE or being part of it when they aren't strikes me as par for the course. Sector Seven, natch.

I didn't really get the impression they blamed Sector 7. More that they were that desperate.

Incidentally, looking at the transcript of the episode, I don't see where it says what actually happened to Dinne after the ceremony, or anything about the ceremony, much less what everyone assumes happened to Dinne. Where we getting that from?

She goes into the shrine for three years. That's what happens after the ceremony, and it's mentioned in the Episode. You just missed it, I guess.

Given the door, I don't think it's couldn't so much as 'didn't want to', she was sleeping inside a cultural monument at the time.

I can't believe the excuses you guys are making for this tripe. How about the kid she couldn't carry?

The Square website lists the revised as coming out in April, last I checked. Granted, that was late last night, so I might just be misremembering, so grain of salt.

Even were that the case, it would have come out the same time as the OtWtaS book.

In any event, the publication date in the book itself says May 7th.

He has? Which parts of the Ulti are they in? I have some gaps.

The character stories in the profiles from the FFX Scenario Ultimania, the character stories in the profiles from the FFX Battle Ultimania, the short stories in the Scenario section of the FFX-2 Ultimania, and the story in the back of the FFX-2 Ultimania Omega.

He did the EXACT SAME THING about his DAD. It's par for course.

Only in that case we don't know that he actually talked about it (he was kind of ashamed of it, ya know). And we don't have reason to believe that Bugenhagen was playing along every time, pretending like some stupid fuck.

 

[ForceStealer]

I didn't really get the impression they blamed Sector 7. More that they were that desperate.

Tres! I'm disappointed in you!

“We’ll destroy Sector 7 and claim AVALANCHE did it. Then we’ll send in rescue operations care of Shinra Inc. Ha ha ha, This is perfect.”

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

"Blamed" as in "held responsible."

 

[Strangelove]

In any event, the publication date in the book itself says May 7th.

Yeah, mine is from the first print run and says 7th May as its date of publication. So unless they pushed the release date forward or something, then it does look like it was released in May.

Edit; actually, now I INVESTIGATE, its release was (at least initially) listed for April? Which doesn't make sense with the date in the book.

http://www.bent.co.jp/main/news/20090331C.htm

Edit; Amazon gives the same date for the release as well (16th April).

 

[Dashell]

Here's what I want to know, those of you who say "it's not canon! NO NO NO!"... do you think at one time that it was?

 

[ForceStealer]

Tres did, and does. I didn't.

 

[Dashell]

So what did you think the point of it was the first time it was published?

 

[Dashell]

BTW at what part does Aerith seem OOC to people?

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

So what did you think the point of it was the first time it was published?

I recall someone saying that Square Enix claimed it put a different perspective into FFVII, much like LO has a different perspective of the Nibelheim incident.

 

[ForceStealer]

I thought it was a short story written by some guy (I didn't know at the time that it was an actual writer) that Square allowed in the Ultimania. If I had known it was an actual writer at the time, maybe I would have thought differently. But I would still think now that its not.

 

[Dashell]

I thought it was a short story written by some guy (I didn't know at the time that it was an actual writer)

Well who else would write it? A fake writer?

 

[ForceStealer]

No I mean like an official writer for video game stuff. But wait, does he work for THhe Ultimania-making company, or Square?

 

[Dashell]

I know, Im giving you shit

 

[crack]

BTW at what part does Aerith seem OOC to people?

I found Aerith and Zack's reunion and conversation awkward and indifferent.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Tres did, and does. I didn't.

Did. I don't think I've said anything to indicate a present progressive tense.

Yeah, mine is from the first print run and says 7th May as its date of publication. So unless they pushed the release date forward or something, then it does look like it was released in May.

Edit; actually, now I INVESTIGATE, its release was (at least initially) listed for April? Which doesn't make sense with the date in the book.

http://www.bent.co.jp/main/news/20090331C.htm

Edit; Amazon gives the same date for the release as well (16th April).

Eh, either way, the release dates were simultaneous at worst.

 

[ForceStealer]

Omnislash being Zack's move seemed a little forced. But i realize it could just be him being goofy and pretending to try to impress her.

 

[null]

Well it's a close race between sucks and so-so but I'm calling it now anyway. The peoples have spoken: Maiden is awful. It fucking sucks, it sucking fucks, it fucking blows, it's a piece of shit... and I don't like it.

 

[Dashell]

So like wanna say WHY it sucks?

 

[Pixel]

I found Aerith and Zack's reunion and conversation awkward and indifferent.

Yeah, when i was editting their conversation together, it seemed really awkward. I dont think Benny got the dynamic right. The lines should be more playful. Other than the revelation that they both know Cloud, Aeriths lines seem kinda dispondant... dont know if thats the right word

 

[null]

So like wanna say WHY it sucks?

I suppose I could indulge your machinations of forever extending threads. Like I said before, the story is mediocre, pointless fluff. The plot neither creates nor resolves any meaningful story arcs. It just rehashes the original FF7 plot from Aerith's POV, along with chapter-long interviews with minor NPCs no one gives a shit about. The narrative at best could be described as meandering; the prose includes runny egg metaphors whose negative impact on the author's credibility can't be excused by translation.

The entire premise, "let's follow Aerith behind the scenes", is shit. She's dead. Killing her was a bold and artistic move, her sudden absence intended to have a profound effect on the player. Giving her a post-mortem story completely invalidates the point of her death. Quit straddling the fence, either appease her fans by wishing her ass back with a dragonball, or respect the original story by letting her RIP.

In summary: functionless art is tolerated vandalism.

 

[ForceStealer]

functionless art is tolerated vandalism.

lol, I really like this.