Why was Jenova kept in the Nibelheim reactor?

[Knuxson]

Checking Crisis Core's Missions, Shin-Ra definitely knew about the crater area already:



So ... yeah. Makes no sense.

Just another example of SE making it more confusing with the compilation when they had the opportunity to do just the opposite. Unless people knew about the cave system there, but not the actual crater on the other side?

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

That shouldn't even be possible, though. The crater is enormous, and the rim of the bowl should be visible from far away. If you can even get to the cave system, you should be at the crater -- perhaps even inside it -- if the layout of the area as presented by the original game is any indication.

Hell, if you were to transport troops and equipment to investigate the area, you would need a flying vehicle anyway -- and, as Advent Children shows, even a helicopter can make that trip.

 

[jazzflower92]

That shouldn't even be possible, though. The crater is enormous, and the rim of the bowl should be visible from far away. If you can even get to the cave system, you should be at the crater -- perhaps even inside it -- if the layout of the area as presented by the original game is any indication.

Hell, if you were to transport troops and equipment to investigate the area, you would need a flying vehicle anyway -- and, as Advent Children shows, even a helicopter can make that trip.

This could be the case of writers do not understand the measure of an area.

 

[Knuxson]

Good point. I was thinking of how Cloud and co. were going through all those caves before reaching the top. Obviously, they couldn't tell it was a crater until they got up there. But they came in from the ground. Shinra would have definitely flown. Cloud and co. only walked it out of necessity.

 

[jazzflower92]

If the crater was that big it makes one wonder if it was a meteor that caused it. I now think that the Cetra might have found a way to defeat Jenova through the use of the black materia to summon meteor.

 

[Knuxson]

Actually, the crater WAS formed by a meteor, but it was the meteor that brought Jenova to the planet in the first place. Jenova rode in on a meteor from, presumably, the last planet she destroyed.

 

[jazzflower92]

Actually, the crater WAS formed by a meteor, but it was the meteor that brought Jenova to the planet in the first place. Jenova rode in on a meteor from, presumably, the last planet she destroyed.

We know vaguely that Jenova has done a lot of this planet destroying for who knows long. It makes one wonder how old she truly is. I know they have kept Jenova's true history a mystery but she really seems to be a character that involves a lot of world building beyond the planet the heroes live on.

 

[Clement Rage]

That shouldn't even be possible, though. The crater is enormous, and the rim of the bowl should be visible from far away. If you can even get to the cave system, you should be at the crater -- perhaps even inside it -- if the layout of the area as presented by the original game is any indication.

Hell, if you were to transport troops and equipment to investigate the area, you would need a flying vehicle anyway -- and, as Advent Children shows, even a helicopter can make that trip.

For all we know, that helicopter launched from a nearby cargo ship, and they alreayd knew something was there. Before that, there was no reason to run a full military expedition to somewhere with nothing to see, especially with a war on at the time. The people that did go, didn't return.

I always assumed the crater was there from the first time the Ancients summoned Meteor, with Jenova hitching a ride on it.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

We don't know that the Cetra ever summoned Meteor, but, yes, the crater has been there since their time.

I'm not sure what point you're making about a cargo ship. My observation was that even a helicopter was capable of ascending high enough to get there and making it through the harsh weather. With Shin-Ra sending multiple parties (scientists, robots, Zack, other SOLDIERs) into the area back in the Crisis Core days, it's simply absurd to think they didn't use flying vehicles or that a good view of the crater wouldn't have been spotted before.

 

[jazzflower92]

We don't know that the Cetra ever summoned Meteor, but, yes, the crater has been there since their time.

I'm not sure what point you're making about a cargo ship. My observation was that even a helicopter was capable of ascending high enough to get there and making it through the harsh weather. With Shin-Ra sending multiple parties (scientists, robots, Zack, other SOLDIERs) into the area back in the Crisis Core days, it's simply absurd to think they didn't use flying vehicles or that a good view of the crater wouldn't have been spotted before.

Or it could be like some things in a story there is a plot hole detail that the writers never noticed until the fans point it out.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

That's exactly what this is, but we're going over why it's a plot hole with no reasonable or even plausible explanation.

 

[jazzflower92]

That's exactly what this is, but we're going over why it's a plot hole with no reasonable or even plausible explanation.

Because when the fans can come up with better prequel ideas that you did on your own then these guys really need think about hiring new writers for their future games.

It seems to be a trait of the Compilation to cause more confusion by doing unnecessary retcons or ignoring past details in Ultimanias at the drop of the hat even though those guide books have interesting details that could have been expanded more in spin off games and books.

 

[Roger]

I'm gonna assume that rather then that they didn't know about it, they just didn't care. They didn't believe that the Planet was a living thing that they were killing off. They wouldn't think a crater is something the planet would gather energy to heal. Sure the hole in the ground would mean they are closer to Mako but on the other hand it's really far up the uninhabited north. Travelling there is possible but far from easy. There was no profit in it.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Here's the script for the beginning of the scene where Rufus and the execs arrive inside the Crater:

Scarlet
"It's all Materia!!"

Rufus
"The ouside is rich with Mako energy, The inside is a treasure
trove of Materia. This truly is the Promised Land."

Hojo
"There is no such thing as the Promised Land. It's a legend... an
old wives tale... ...it's utterly ridiculous."

(The camera pans back down to show Hojo standing near Rufus. Rufus turns
to face him.)



It's clear from their reactions that the mako is so abundant inside the crater that it would be very profitable to exploit. Rufus even calls it "The Promised Land" his old man was seeking, the implication being that if the old President had known about this place, ShinRa's HQ would now be at the Northern Crater.They are not even particularly deep inside the crater at this point, and as others have pointed out, the crater is easy to access by air. If Jenova was found in the Crater under Shinra's aegis, then the only way Shinra could not know about the immense mako wealth inside the crater is if Gast/Hojo/the science department somehow found a way to keep this fact a secret. That's why I prefer to think that the reason they keep her in Nibleheim is because that's where they found her.

 

[jazzflower92]

I still think they found her up North because of the fact its where Gast was researching when he came across her frozen in ice.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I'm gonna assume that rather then that they didn't know about it, they just didn't care. They didn't believe that the Planet was a living thing that they were killing off. They wouldn't think a crater is something the planet would gather energy to heal. Sure the hole in the ground would mean they are closer to Mako but on the other hand it's really far up the uninhabited north. Travelling there is possible but far from easy. There was no profit in it.

But that's the thing. They seemed to think it was worth going. They sent scientists. When they lost contact with them, they sent troops, including SOLDIERs. Then they sent machines and more troops. Even when only SOLDIERs -- and, eventually, only Zack -- could move forward, they kept going.

At some point, somebody had to see that huge, whirling fountain of mako rising up from the ground on its own. How would that not be conversation worthy or make it into a report?

Rufus and Scarlet act like this is all news to them while Hojo is completely unimpressed. Either somebody kept this place a secret deliberately or Shin-Ra's need for an Ancient to lead them to a land "where mako rises from the ground on its own" makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[jazzflower92]

But that's the thing. They seemed to think it was worth going. They sent scientists. When they lost contact with them, they sent troops, including SOLDIERs. Then they sent machines and more troops. Even when only SOLDIERs -- and, eventually, only Zack -- could move forward, they kept going.

At some point, somebody had to see that huge, whirling fountain of mako rising up from the ground on its own. How would that not be conversation worthy or make it into a report?

Rufus and Scarlet act like this is all news to them while Hojo is completely unimpressed. Either somebody kept this place a secret deliberately or Shin-Ra's need for an Ancient to lead them to a land "where mako rises from the ground on its own" makes no sense whatsoever.

Yeah, if they ever did do a remake/reboot they would need to solve what to do with that plot hole.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

It would be easier to retcon the location where they found Jenova than to retcon Aerith's entire storyline. If it weren't for the fact that Jenova was supposedly excavated out of the crater -

and why would she still be in the crater? Why would the Cetra seal her inside the very wound she created, where the Lifestream was flowing in abundance? Way to give the Planet blood poisoning, guys. Plus, Jenova must have climbed out of the crater after she landed, since it is known that she went prowling round the Planet, infecting Cetra with the virus of her DNA -

Anyway, if it weren't for the fact that canon says she was dug out of the crater, I could easily believe that nobody has ever explored the crater on the grounds that it's too frozen, too far away, totally sterile (I mean, does it look to you like there'd be mako there?), and maybe also because the planet has mustered some kind of cloaking mist around it - that was gradually dispelled after Sephiroth took up residence.

 

[jazzflower92]

It would be easier to retcon the location where they found Jenova than to retcon Aerith's entire storyline. If it weren't for the fact that Jenova was supposedly excavated out of the crater -

and why would she still be in the crater? Why would the Cetra seal her inside the very wound she created, where the Lifestream was flowing in abundance? Way to give the Planet blood poisoning, guys. Plus, Jenova must have climbed out of the crater after she landed, since it is known that she went prowling round the Planet, infecting Cetra with the virus of her DNA -

Anyway, if it weren't for the fact that canon says she was dug out of the crater, I could easily believe that nobody has ever explored the crater on the grounds that it's too frozen, too far away, totally sterile (I mean, does it look to you like there'd be mako there?), and maybe also because the planet has mustered some kind of cloaking mist around it - that was gradually dispelled after Sephiroth took up residence.

Now that I think about it why doesn't Square fully explain why the Cetra sealed her in the crater if it was going to have ill effects on the planet. Yeah, a lot of things concerning Jenova and the Cetra needs to be rewritten in order to cover up some holes in the planet.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Even if it weren't outright stated that Jenova was found in the crater (I want to say it was on pg. 210 of the Ultimania Omega; I'll double-check this shortly), it would still be daft that they didn't notice the place during all that investigation from Crisis Core. Hell, the first mission briefing related to the Great Cavern of Wonders says outright that they found this second cave near the Northern Cave! So, double-you, tee, eff!

For that matter, even without Ultimanias and the Compilation, it's really odd that no one said any sooner than they did, "You know, now that we have the Highwind and Gelnikas and shit, we should fly over that really tall, bowl-shaped mountain formation and see what's up there."

Or did they say that and then followed it up with, "You know what, nevermind, forget it. It's a silly idea. Waste of time and resources. It's not like we're looking for a magical land no one has apparently ever been able to get to before or anything"?

 

[jazzflower92]

Even if it weren't outright stated that Jenova was found in the crater (I want to say it was on pg. 210 of the Ultimania Omega; I'll double-check this shortly), it would still be daft that they didn't notice the place during all that investigation from Crisis Core. Hell, the first mission briefing related to the Great Cavern of Wonders says outright that they found this second cave near the Northern Cave! So, double-you, tee, eff!

For that matter, even without Ultimanias and the Compilation, it's really odd that no one said any sooner than they did, "You know, now that we have the Highwind and Gelnikas and shit, we should fly over that really tall, bowl-shaped mountain formation and see what's up there."

Or did they say that and then followed it up with, "You know what, nevermind, forget it. It's a silly idea. Waste of time and resources. It's not like we're looking for a magical land no one has apparently ever been able to get to before or anything"?

This would be a major case of failed a spot check on both the writers and Shinra.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Tres, when in Crisis Core did they approach the Northern Crater?

(I know this is just me, but in my mind the CC missions aren't strictly canon. Some of them don't unlock until after Zack has escaped from Nibelheim, so if they were strictly canon, that would be too absurd even for Square Enix...

... Unless we are to assume that he is simply remembering them?)

 

[jazzflower92]

At this point we will be getting more questions unanswered if they do continue the Compilation.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I double-checked, and the Ultimania Omega says plain as day on pp. 9 and 210, if not elsewhere, that Gast found Jenova in the crater. Well, more specifically, "the Great Northern Cave" below the crater.

Tres, when in Crisis Core did they approach the Northern Crater?

This mission briefing shows they knew about it already:

We unearthed a second subterranean den near the northern cave.
We cannot determine whether it was naturally formed, or made by human hands.
Shinra sent a science team, which never came back. This is where you come in.

(I know this is just me, but in my mind the CC missions aren't strictly canon. Some of them don't unlock until after Zack has escaped from Nibelheim, so if they were strictly canon, that would be too absurd even for Square Enix...

... Unless we are to assume that he is simply remembering them?)

Whatever the case, the CC Complete Guide speaks of them as though they are canon (hito's translations):

The Mysterious Cave

A large, mysterious cave discovered in the north. The ShinRa army, the Wutai army, and the Genesis army each pursued what lurked inside the interior of the cave, and when the Wutai and Genesis forces were annihilated, it left behind only the SOLDIERs of the ShinRa Army. Furthermore, within the cave lurked monsters and machines and other things of abnormal strength, and in the darkest depths of the cave is where Minerva reigned as the source of the energy within.

Monster Investigation Program
A program aimed at gathering information about the appearance of monsters all over the world. As it is necessary to make contact with the monsters, this dangerous investigation is assigned as part of a SOLDIER’s duty. After investigating the monsters within Midgar, harsher missions have operatives traveling to uninhabited areas and islands.

Joint Training
Joint training that the Public Safety Department challenged the
SOLDIER Department to. The training consists of actual combat between the SOLDIER Department and the Public Safety, and in the game they are treated as missions. Despite the Public Safety Department investing a large budget into this training, all 6 end in victory for the SOLDIER Department.

Orphanage
An orphan housing facility run by Shinra as part of their charity
work. But in actuality, the children are put through harsh training
with the goal of cultivating future candidates for the Turks and
SOLDIER. Cissnei is also from this facility, and after enduring the
brutal training she was hired by the Turks. In Missions No. 205~210,
“Orphans Escaping”, children from this orphanage have escaped.

There's also this from the scenario Q&A in the CC Ultimania:

Q8-4: At the end of mission 8-5-6 “Treasure Info #6″, Yuffie says that a blond haired man brought a list of SOLDIER members to her father. Is this referring to Lazard? Or is it Rufus ShinRa, in light of the events of BC?

A8-4: We’ll leave that to your imagination.

 

[jazzflower92]

Is it me or Shinra under President Shinra becomes more and more obviously evil as more additions to the Compilation have been added. President Shinra really has been shown to be a brutal person who will do anything in order to maintain the power of his company. Especially concerning Jenova he probably knew by the time he died that she wasn't an ancient but still kept her around in order to harness her potential.