SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[eleamaya]

No one cared about being "in-character" for them either, it was for the fun and fascination of playing these characters in these made-up scenarios. It was fun to pretend Goku was going to highschool with Sailor Moon and Inuyasha characters. XD I also think my foundation for being okay with OOC comes from reading fanfiction, as looking back, the majority of my favorite fics have characterization that is varied from the real thing. Some fics were dependent upon it, as young me had to figure out what the hell a "lemon" had to do with a genre, so. lol

But I also understand the other side, because eventually I became a more strict, logical person. The correlation stems from when people made it not about the fun, and more of pushing OOC value onto the actual characters themselves and people in a negative way. Which would be fine in a creative, personal space where no one should care, but when people start being nasty and irrational over it, then it makes it hard to have real discussions or even FOR people to have fun. People become indignant and protective of their headcanons now. I also think it is great to see fan works that depict things closer to the source in creative ways as well, but it isn't a necessity still I'd say.

I'm so picky with fanfiction. I hate OOC-ness even if the setting is AU and the pairs is my own OTP. Like, if this is OOC, then it's your personal fanfiction, should not share with others who think of that character as the character they know unless you're okay with their reviews no matter what.

When I talk about in character, I like Sefikura fanfic and JP fanzine when Sephiroth abuse and/or rape Cloud, lol. It's not OOC. And I think that's what make Sefikura over the top at the first place. Blame CLAMP who make me love that kind of yaoi.

 

[Eerie]

I couldn’t answer @LunarTarotGirl about the childhood friends trope; I don’t really feel that way towards it because I never really feel that destiny string attached to it. If the relationship is engaging then it is, if not then not. So to me it’s really funny you see it that way xD

To me CT’s appeal wasn’t that they were childhood friends, since I did not ship them at first and wanted to throw Cloud off a cliff xD it really was the LS scene because I need the boy to be down bad for the girl in order to ship - whether it’s alluded to (City Hunter) or shown right there (CT), I feel that to be engaged with the pair, it’s one thing that must be fulfilled (which is why CA leaves me absolutely cold dead lol).

In the case of CT, being childhood friends has been well used I think, so I’m good with it. I do love the trope of destiny, but I think characters shouldn’t be aware of it, if I make sense xD it does take away their own wishes and wants, so while I love it, it also must be used wisely.

There are many tropes in writing, but personally I feel that whether you like the trope or not, the most engaging thing must be the relationship in itself (as a shipper of course).

The tropes that I think are being developed for p3 (I might be wrong):

• eternal love through life and death (both CT and ZA);
• destined love (CT and ZA);
• childhood friends love (CT);
• knight and princess (ZA; this one is from Rebirth but I feel it’s going to live on).

So they are going to push a lot of similarities and parallels between the two ships.

Edit: I forgot soulmates for both ships too.

 

[Skilganon]

If it weren't for the Life stream sequence, I don't think I would care nearly as much as I do. That's probably the most important factor for if you ship CT or not. This is why I think the LTD conversation is going to change immensely when part 3 comes out and we see the Life stream scene in HD with voice acting. It isn't even about the tropes, it's about the Cloud and Tifa shared character development.

If CA had similar development I might care more about that relationship.

 

[Eerie]

Well as I keep saying it, the Lifestream sequence is the answer to the LT, and this is why CA can't have a similar scene. This is where we learn that Cloud really is an "it's only you" type of character, and that Tifa was the key to solve the Nibelheim mystery and help Cloud, as all his inner thoughts, his core memories were about her.

However, the number of people who don't understand what this scene is about and think it's simply about the Nibelheim mystery is way too high, and that leads them to theorise that Aerith/Zack can help too, can be in the sequence. This is partly why I am absolutely convinced we'll get a confession (the other part being Akira's song), and a kiss, because it is an extremely romantic scene, and oddly enough, only a fragment of the fans understand that. Yes, even CA understand this very well, as they've wanted that scene for CA for decades. Make no mistake, despite the "it's in the past" bad take, they totally understand the nature of this event.

If anything, Rebirth has largely built on for the LSS: we have Cloud and Tifa reminiscing their younger years a lot, but also the Nibelheim incident not being solved, the hint at it with Tifa's own memories in the LS that are just like Cloud's, and at the very end, the Black Whispers who are attacking her memories - which will lead into her doubting her own memories, and doubting Cloud in Northern Crater. The LSS is about Cloud and Tifa, because it's about Cloud's memories and feelings for Tifa. It's his own little world in the Lifestream made of his deepest wish to be noticed by her.

 

[LunarTarotGirl]

I couldn’t answer @LunarTarotGirl about the childhood friends trope; I don’t really feel that way towards it because I never really feel that destiny string attached to it. If the relationship is engaging then it is, if not then not. So to me it’s really funny you see it that way xD

To me CT’s appeal wasn’t that they were childhood friends, since I did not ship them at first and wanted to throw Cloud off a cliff xD it really was the LS scene because I need the boy to be down bad for the girl in order to ship - whether it’s alluded to (City Hunter) or shown right there (CT), I feel that to be engaged with the pair, it’s one thing that must be fulfilled (which is why CA leaves me absolutely cold dead lol).

In the case of CT, being childhood friends has been well used I think, so I’m good with it. I do love the trope of destiny, but I think characters shouldn’t be aware of it, if I make sense xD it does take away their own wishes and wants, so while I love it, it also must be used wisely.

There are many tropes in writing, but personally I feel that whether you like the trope or not, the most engaging thing must be the relationship in itself (as a shipper of course).

The tropes that I think are being developed for p3 (I might be wrong):

• eternal love through life and death (both CT and ZA);
• destined love (CT and ZA);
• childhood friends love (CT);
• knight and princess (ZA; this one is from Rebirth but I feel it’s going to live on).

So they are going to push a lot of similarities and parallels between the two ships.

Edit: I forgot soulmates for both ships too.

Yeah for me and this is about anything in media actually I usually always figure out the endgame or end of a movie or whatever pretty quick. I've always been that way.

So I need a reason to be invested besides a relationship that I know will happen because I figured it out early on. I prefer not knowing actually 90% of the time. I don't like destiny anything it feels too .. predictable? Contrived?

Like I need my characters to not just earn something because destiny dictated it as so. I need them to suffer and fight for it against all odds pulling them apart.

"And it's always been you" or "childhood friends with a promise" means there's no odds or that it doesn't matter the odds.
It's always been them, they promised. The story is hinting with a hammer on the head that they WILL end up together no question. That's destiny. Because there is no other path. Especially when you see one character not fall in love but be in love from the start. That can not be anymore destined. And I don't know why people don't see it that way. The childhood friends to lovers especially who promised trope is a neon flashing light that's way too bright. So obvious and certain that it hurts my eyes.

I prefer the opposite. And I prefer the uncertainty. There are infinite paths were they could have totally not ended up together, where they can't, because it was not always them, or maybe they never imagined it would be them but it's them in the end. Or they don't belong together but choose eachother anyway. That's my ideal romance entertainment.

And when you make two characters promise since childhood that goes out the window. It becomes definite. Which is why I'm so against it lol sorry.

So then comes the engagement part you mentioned.

So why am I here? I know the ending. The story is still playing so what else is there to keep my interest longer than 5 minutes? That's what I look for in these things.

And see yeah no I don't want anyone down bad for anyone else.
To me that already tells me the end, it shows me no chase, no struggle. They love eachother and always have. The end.

So why am I here? What else you got besides being down bad for eachother? Why should I personally invest myself in why you're down bad to eachother? That's the question. One I think The Lifestream scene can answer. And one I think ACC answered.

And sadly none of those tropes except for knight and princess maybe appeal to me. Those stories are a dime a dozen. I read them all already. So I do hope there's more than that for ZA.
I'm going to need way more than that to keep my interest.

And as I said, I'm like this with all media. It's not that the couples and tropes that for me are been there done that what else? aren't peak engagement to others that aren't me. I'm sure they are. Engagement is a really personal experience to each person. I don't think we can say anything is engaging or not across the board.
I am just one person in the audience who figured it out too quickly in the first act and now I'm waiting to be amazed. Which is why I actually like when stories makes me question.

 

[Eerie]

@LunarTarotGirl: I wasn't trying to change your mind lol, I was just explaining that I feel very differently. Also you should absolutely watch Doctor Who with the 11th Doctor, Amy and Rory are one of the best ships ever written and yes they're childhood friends. And yes, the guy is an absolute nutcase for her I won't say anymore than that but yes, if you haven't already, try to watch that Doctor at least, with Amy as the companion (plus you'll meet River Song and everyone needs to meet River Song).

Also the reason why I want the guy to be down bad for the girl is because groans the girl is usually the one who is down bad for the guy FIRST and I hate relationships that are not equal. I spent my first run of FFVII telling Tifa to drop that jackass until the LSS, which is basically where Cloud redeemed himself in my eyes. Personally I would've dropped him dead way before the Midgar part ended lol. Part of why I went on is that I really wanted to kill Sephiroth

 

[LunarTarotGirl]

@LunarTarotGirl: I wasn't trying to change your mind lol, I was just explaining that I feel very differently. Also you should absolutely watch Doctor Who with the 11th Doctor, Amy and Rory are one of the best ships ever written and yes they're childhood friends. And yes, the guy is an absolute nutcase for her I won't say anymore than that but yes, if you haven't already, try to watch that Doctor at least, with Amy as the companion (plus you'll meet River Song and everyone needs to meet River Song).

Also the reason why I want the guy to be down bad for the girl is because groans the girl is usually the one who is down bad for the guy FIRST and I hate relationships that are not equal. I spent my first run of FFVII telling Tifa to drop that jackass until the LSS, which is basically where Cloud redeemed himself in my eyes. Personally I would've dropped him dead way before the Midgar part ended lol. Part of why I went on is that I really wanted to kill Sephiroth

I know I was just explaining too the destiny part of CT and why for some reason I see it as a blaring light but others clearly don't which is so interesting to me.

I like Doctor Who so if you say this couple is good I'll check it out

I agree with that in stories the girl usually falls first. I don't like that either. I like He Falls First, myself or they fall for eachother at the same time. But I like it gradual. I like to see the build up something and I can't see it if he is down bad so quickly.

One of my favorite ships for this reason that is also childhood friends is Shulk and Fiora from Xenoblade Chronicles because you actually see them sort of realize their feelings on equal footing and there's an LTD there that I think is just handled so well and should be the example of how love triangle stories should actually be written.

And another It's Always Been You and Capital D Destiny Biggest Red String of Fate but not childhood friends couple I love is NoahxMio from Xenoblade Chronicles. Where you clearly see it's always been them. Where they both wear literal red strings and destiny is a huge theme. But there's just so much more going on to build them up and going on that convinces you that yeah these two earned it.

So it's not that in every single case I will reject couples that show these tropes. My mind can be changed lol. It really just does depend on the execution.

 

[Empyrea]

A little late to the party, but even though I liked the LSS and is pretty much why I recall FF7 despite playing it only once, technically, I...don't actually ship CT.

CA and CT to me both suffer from being almost nothing but conflict and hardly any pay-off. CT (in og) basically put it all on the back of Mideel and LSS. It's sweet and it is a very important highlight, but it's just a couple of scenes. CA, on the other hand, has the "opposites attract" (which can be nice when done right, but mostly, I hate that trope) and other familiar tropes going for them, but the moment I saw Aerith putting majority, if not all, the effort into it, I immediately dropped it as a possibility (yes, before she even died). If I'm shipping, I want the ones involved to grow from being "you and I" to a "we/us." CA never had and will have that from where I stood, while for CT, AC kinda put it in a blender (that movie needs a rewrite, I swear to god...).

Retrilogy so far at least improved CT. They're not just all about the secretly pining and the conflict, they're actually shown interacting, having sweet little moments, and actually sharing their thoughts with one another before the LSS. It has the emotional connection I want in my ships. Now Part 3 just needs to stick the landing.

CA also had some cute scenes -- the photography scene comes to mind -- but I'm not one to count every single moment a pair shares as shippy. I can see said scene happening for a couple of really close friends, for one.

 

[eleamaya]

I've also shared my preference here. To repeat, I dont like childhood friends trope. I read so many mangas and I dont like it... in example, I prefer other couples in Detective Conan aside Shinichi/Ran and Heiji/Kazura (Man, I really really hate the slow burn in Heiji/Kazuha, at least Shinichi/Ran give me angst and Shinichi isnt shy or stupid about romance like Heiji, I mean Shinichi brought Ran to expensive dinner date and London to confess! What a guy!). Or maybe what I dont like is the dynamic of both parties hiding, unaware, or cannot admit they have feelings because they've been friends since childhood, let's say it's the slow burn that I dont like whether it's childhood friends or not. And yes, Aerith is my favorite girl + I'm sucker for tragedy (this is even before I swift to Zerith). Cloti was not in my radar even when Tifa devoted herself to stay by Cloud's side in Mideel, it didn't move me yet. What make me accept Cloti is canon, is the trope of Guy's Hopeless Romantic over a girl, usually exist in Shounen. I see Cloud fall to that category towards Tifa revealed in Lifestream Sequence. I can write his love like this:

Cloud is never a badass hero picturing a big dream to be famous for saving the world to begin with, that’s not what he imagine when he left his hometown to be SOLDIER that big city life might’ve changed his motivation into money. Lifestream sequence reveals the real Cloud is a simple man whose action motivated by his childhood crush to Tifa, to impress her, to be noticed by her, to deserve her, to be strong for her, to be a hero just for her. Everything starts there, started even from earlier years when he failed to protect her in the mountain when they were 7-8 years old. Isn’t it the most romantic side from a man named Cloud Strife?

I can apply it to Zerith, either:

Zack’s motivation to leave his hometown at the same age as Cloud and joined SOLDIER program is totally different. A very idealistic one: to be a hero. It drove him being a hard-worker, duty and career is number one, then fame, money, and wealth hopefully follows... every man's dream! But the road isn't easy, it's a brutal life, and he discovered more and more depressing truth. As he met Aerith time to time, while never giving up on his dream, it reflects how he wanted to be a simple man who will always be there for her, to spend his time with her no matter how cheesy it would be, he wanted to end his mission quicky just to be by her side, to fullfill her wishes. Isn’t it the most romantic side from a man named Zack Fair?

It really was the LS scene because I need the boy to be down bad for the girl in order to ship

shake hand

I do love the trope of destiny, but I think characters shouldn’t be aware of it

This is my problem with Sailor Moon 90s anime. Man, the manga is very beautiful in portraying Mamo/Usagi's relationship, they've been in love for each other as Mamoru and Usagi, not as Tuxedo Kamen and Sailor Moon, even before they know their tragic past life (oh hello, tragedy, I love you XD). But the 90s anime? It's garbage. They're like engaged only because "Oh, we're lovers in the past life, let's be lover again". But people who like "love-hate relationship" dynamic will love it. Nah, it's never appealing to me.